Misrepresenting one's nationality - a clarification on forum rules

[Wolfwind]

Should not is not the same thing as could not.

I should not lie about your ugly tie, but I could and would because I do not want to hurt your feelings. Guess who is really confused here, and it ain't me.


There is a Chinese-American on this forum who cheers exclusively for China. The guy holds US citizenship but have no problems putting his loyalty for China before the US. Talk to him about shades of grey and culture.


Of course it does. Back in WW II, plenty of Japanese-Americans and German-Americans who were US-borned went back to Japan and Germany to fight for those countries. They grew up in the US, ate pizzas and burgers, went to American schools, and other than the origins of their parents, they were Americans. And yet they swore allegiance to other countries and fought against the US. So you are wrong. Again.

I have edited my comment which pretty much responds to your recent post:

Gambit I think you're confusing yourself. A Chinese American should not speak for China. A Chinese person that was born and grew up in China should speak for China.

Culturally, Chinese Americans are a fusion of Western and Chinese, and do not share the same experiences as someone who is native to China. Given that views and opinions are shaped by experiences, environment and culture, then their ideas are not going to be the same as someone who is actually from China. That is why there are two flags. People with higher levels of understanding are going to appreciate this fundamental difference. You need to think in levels of grey rather than in black and white. Very child-like thinking.

Historical examples aren't worth mentioning here. The segregation of Black Americans was a thing before, it doesn't mean it's going to happen again. Japanese-Americans were forcefully put into internment camps in WWII, I can't see that happening again to any ethnicity or group. Even after 9/11, Muslim Americans were not put in internment camps or deported. That's because we've advanced as a society. And USA loves to set precedents in human justices so I can't see USA doing that today. It's more likely Russia or China would do that. I think you have these very childish power fantasies.

------------

But back on topic, you have listed USA and USA. Well although your allegiance lies with USA, your views and opinions could be influenced from another culture. Like I see that your English isn't very good so it might not be your first language. So for example, if you were a Mexican-American, and a topic about Hispanic American immigration comes up, then it might be the case that you seem sympathetic to the plight of Hispanic Americans. Also, you might be fluent in Spanish and knowledgeable on Mexican culture, so you could have more credibility when discussing such topics in the barrios or something. Then it would make sense to perhaps list Mexico as another country. Does that make sense?

I'd add that while some German and Japanese Americans returned to their country of allegiance, many Germans and Japanese also served in the US military, so for you to completely ignore that is really clumsy of you.

Importantly, it's also insulting for actual China Chinese to claim that you are a spokesperson for that country (when you're not even born and/or grew up in China), when many people in China would not even consider that person's views to be an accurate sentiment shared by most people in China. It's all about respect for others and letting genuine nationals have their own opinions but you seem to not appreciate that.

Also can I just say that you have this irritating habit of making red herrings (i.e. the tie example); you need to stop.

 

[gambit]

Gambit I think you're confusing yourself. A Chinese American should not speak for China. A Chinese person that was born and grew up in China should speak for China.

The one who is confused here is YOU.

Should is not the same thing as must.

Yes, a Chinese-American should not speak for China. I get it. But there is a word for those who speaks and acts in support of another country: treason.

The US is an immigrant country. That mean anyone can psychologically, ideologically, and emotionally abandon his country of birth and supports the US. Likewise, any US citizen can psychologically, ideologically, and emotionally abandon the US and supports China, or Pakistan, or Russia, or Timbuktu, or even Mars.

If you know someone on this forum who is a Chinese-American but consistently supports China, what are YOU going to do ? Admonish him that he should support the US ? Most likely he would virtually laugh in your virtual face. Regardless of his country of birth, he is going to support any country he chose. And how long are you going to pester this Chinese-American to support the US instead of China ? Every time he post ?

In YOUR case, I am going to guess that if any Chinese-American who supports China, YOU are going to applaud that man. You WILL make an exception to the rule you lectured to me.

Culturally, Chinese Americans are a fusion of Western and Chinese, and do not share the same experiences as someone who is native to China. Given that views and opinions are shaped by experiences, environment and culture, then their ideas are not going to be the same as someone who is actually from China. That is why there are two flags. People with higher levels of understanding are going to appreciate this fundamental difference. You need to think in levels of grey rather than in black and white. Very child-like thinking.

People with higher levels of understanding ? I take it you placed yourself in that group ? Spare me your condescension, child.

First...I am going on 53 yrs, so most likely I am your father's peer.

Second...If worldly experience is any help in getting to those levels of 'higher understanding' that you pompously spoke of, then most likely I got you beat hands down. I am Vietnamese. I fled Viet Nam in 1975 just weeks before Sai Gon felled to the communists. I call 'home' the US State of Hawaii, the most culturally diverse environment of all the States. When I was growing up, I lived under Governor George Ariyoshi and Mayor Frank Fasi. You can guess the origins of those men by their last names, can you ? From Hawaii, I joined the USAF and stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for 3 yrs. From Britain, I have been to Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey. I have a good story of how one night, me in a four-ship F-111 flight 'bombed' France from an altitude of 20 meters over the Channel. Then I transferred from the F-111 to the F-16 and from CONUS, I have been to Japan and South Korea. Then I was deployed to Desert Storm. As a civilian, I have been to China and Taiwan.

So do not even attempt to lecture me about shades of grey, because right now the only shades of grey am interested in is the movie. You get the reference ?

I'd add that while some German and Japanese Americans returned to their country of allegiance, many Germans and Japanese also served in the US military, so for you to completely ignore that is really clumsy of you.

No, I did not forget. From Hawaii, I know several WW II veterans of the famous 442nd. But precisely because of my personal life, which is longer and probably more diverse than yours, if one is to display a national flag, it should be that of one's psychological, ideological, and emotional allegiance.

Importantly, it's also insulting for actual China Chinese to claim that you are a spokesperson for that country (when you're not even born and/or grew up in China), when many people in China would not even consider that person's views to be an accurate sentiment shared by most people in China. It's all about respect for others and letting genuine nationals have their own opinions but you seem to not appreciate that.

That -- the highlighted -- is a big laugh. So let me get it out of my system...

I have yet to see any 'China Chinese' on this forum to get mad a the few Chinese-Americans on this forum who, not only cheers for China, but spoke for the Chinese people and government. You can ask your fellow Chinese, via private messages, on who those Chinese-Americans are. In fact, the 'China Chinese' publicly welcomed those Chinese-Americans.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I have said before I am happy to be Pakistani and call myself that but my ethnic group is Lucknowi. I have explained my position on this several times. It is the Indians who cannot understand the ethnic make up of Pakistan. My views on ethnic identity have been explained briefly-I will explain them again.

The word muhajir is a contraption. It was not what (the name) Jinnah intended for migrants who came to newly formed Pakistan controlled territory and it was also a poor term for us because it meant religious nomad. We are settled in cities and are still willing to call ourselves nomads? Then the word urdu speaker did not represent us either-why because there were madrasi malyali, Gujrati Telugu and Tamil speakers among us. What is the solution?

Our real identity can be 3 things. One it can be that we merge as Pashtuns/Sindhis/Baloch/Punjabis. The other option is to reclaim our original identity. That identity is Lucknowi, Madrasi, Dehlvi, Deccan or others. The third is trying to do both.

If some Indians do not understand our loyalty to our motherland which is Lucknow and should have gone to Pakistan this is their problem. I will continue vouching for the merger of Lucknowi territory with Pakistan. As this is a free forum I know I have the freedom to vouch for that. Thanks for your concern.

Muhajir means Migrant as u have said it. Nomad has another name in urdu.

 

[Stag112]

I have yet to see any 'China Chinese' on this forum to get mad a the few Chinese-Americans on this forum who, not only cheers for China, but spoke for the Chinese people and government. You can ask your fellow Chinese, via private messages, on who those Chinese-Americans are. In fact, the 'China Chinese' publicly welcomed those Chinese-Americans.

..and also those Chinese who hide behind two American or German or Philippines flags...

I agree with you, they should be made to wear their Chinese flags...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Amazing you south Asians are crazy bunch of people

ahaa so finally u were given yr actual flags, while this guy on te other thread said india is a true cradle of civilizations and he will visit ''so n so'' temple,(when he was pretending to be an american)

And he thought i would allow his *** to get away.

DSI all over again.

P.S. DSI means; Damn Stupid Indians.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Guys, Look who is talking. Pajero pajero.

DSI

 

[cool_not]

DSI

 

[Wolfwind]

The one who is confused here is YOU.

Should is not the same thing as must.

Excuse me gambit but I know exactly what I posted, since I am the one who posted it. You are waffling on about pointless semantics, which suggests confusion. The bottom line is that Chinese-Americans should not speak for or represent China. Importantly though they are Chinese by heritage, culture and ethnicity, but they should not act like they are born and bred China-Chinese, because then that's sort of like masquerading. Their culture is a fusion of Western (American) and Chinese, but ultimately their identity is up to them to choose. I don't believe in rigidly defining someone's identity based on residence or place of birth but we should be mindful of the fact that where you grew up and your cultural environment does impact your mindset, analytical interpretations, point of views etc. That's why I'm saying their views should not be representative of China.

Yes, a Chinese-American should not speak for China. I get it. But there is a word for those who speaks and acts in support of another country: treason.

Thank you for finally getting it. Regarding treason I think you need to look up the definition before dangerously throwing around words that you're unsure about.

Treason is defined as "the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government". So unless these Chinese-Americans you are complaining about are attempting to kill Obama, or plotting to conduct terrorist activities then I don't see how that's treason.

With this in mind, the term "traitor" might be more appropriate. A traitor, as you already know, is somebody who betrays the nation in which he belongs (but even that's a bit of a stretch since I don't see them plotting mass shootings or suicide bombings). But let me ask you this, did the Chinese-American you are talking about ever feel a sense of "belonging" in America? Did you yourself ever consider Chinese-Americans as belonging to America? Did you welcome them like you did other White Europeans? I don't think so. America never treated those of Chinese heritage very well. From the Yellow Peril, anti-Chinese legislation (e.g. Chinese exclusion acts), Chinese massacres in USA, murder of Vincent Chin, Hollywood's representation of Asians and Chinese, the demonisation of Chinese people in American media and news, the list goes on. You can't blame Chinese-Americans for "betrayal" since White Americans have alienated them in such a cruel manner throughout history and to this day, it's really unsurprising they do not feel any sort of kinship with the likes of that demographic.

If you know someone on this forum who is a Chinese-American but consistently supports China, what are YOU going to do ? Admonish him that he should support the US ? Most likely he would virtually laugh in your virtual face. Regardless of his country of birth, he is going to support any country he chose. And how long are you going to pester this Chinese-American to support the US instead of China ? Every time he post ?

Um, I don't care? I'm not American by nationality or identity. It really isn't my place to intrude on issues that have nothing to do with me. But if you're asking for my opinion, I think they can do what they want. You need to stop oppressing other peoples rights to do what they want, especially if it doesn't actually harm you like a terrorist attack. Are you physically bleeding from that user supporting China instead of America or something

The US is an immigrant country. That mean anyone can psychologically, ideologically, and emotionally abandon his country of birth and supports the US. Likewise, any US citizen can psychologically, ideologically, and emotionally abandon the US and supports China, or Pakistan, or Russia, or Timbuktu, or even Mars.

While I don't disagree with that, there is a construed sociological hierarchy in place that exists in American society whereby the "correct", "ideal", and "desirable" kind of American is White.

In YOUR case, I am going to guess that if any Chinese-American who supports China, YOU are going to applaud that man. You WILL make an exception to the rule you lectured to me.

Like I told you before I'm not sure if you should make any guesses about anything because your judgement is really off. If a Chinese-American supports China then it means he supports his heritage and the land of his ancestors. But he should not act like he is speaking on behalf of the people of China because that is just selfish, and he needs to mindful of the fact that culturally he is mostly American / Western in his mindset.

You seem to be a bit irrational because Chinese-Americans call America their home too and they don't want to see their lives being impacted whilst living in America. Those that do support China seem to prefer the win-win scenario where both countries can benefit.

First...I am going on 53 yrs, so most likely I am your father's peer.

I don't think age matters, or any sort of appeal to authority fallacies. If a 5 year old posts something so thought provoking and insightful, it's not like we should discredit him because of his age. It means he is a genius.

Second...If worldly experience is any help in getting to those levels of 'higher understanding' that you pompously spoke of, then most likely I got you beat hands down. I am Vietnamese. I fled Viet Nam in 1975 just weeks before Sai Gon felled to the communists. I call 'home' the US State of Hawaii, the most culturally diverse environment of all the States. When I was growing up, I lived under Governor George Ariyoshi and Mayor Frank Fasi. You can guess the origins of those men by their last names, can you ? From Hawaii, I joined the USAF and stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for 3 yrs. From Britain, I have been to Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey. I have a good story of how one night, me in a four-ship F-111 flight 'bombed' France from an altitude of 20 meters over the Channel. Then I transferred from the F-111 to the F-16 and from CONUS, I have been to Japan and South Korea. Then I was deployed to Desert Storm. As a civilian, I have been to China and Taiwan.

I had a strong feeling that you might not be a WASP American. Well thanks for sharing your experiences. You're a Vietnamese-American, but you can also support and celebrate Vietnam and Vietnamese culture, since you are Vietnamese by heritage, ethnicity, culture, identity etc.

No, I did not forget. From Hawaii, I know several WW II veterans of the famous 442nd. But precisely because of my personal life, which is longer and probably more diverse than yours, if one is to display a national flag, it should be that of one's psychological, ideological, and emotional allegiance.

But by not showing a Vietnamese flag, if you speak in any Vietnam related issues, then your credibility is dismissed. People are going to just roll their eyes and think "ugh, what is a White American doing here". That's why I think it's better to have two flags, it's difficult to lump people in one category. And frankly speaking there are many people who are probably uncomfortable putting up one flag since it doesn't convey their actual identity, and it would be sort of selfish to act like you are speaking for that country when you are not even from there.

I have yet to see any 'China Chinese' on this forum to get mad a the few Chinese-Americans on this forum who, not only cheers for China, but spoke for the Chinese people and government. You can ask your fellow Chinese, via private messages, on who those Chinese-Americans are. In fact, the 'China Chinese' publicly welcomed those Chinese-Americans.

Okay well I have only recently joined this forum. And you don't know if they are actually China Chinese. They might be like you who display a double China flag since they are pandering to their psychological, ideological, and emotional allegiance, yet completely ignoring their cultural mindset and the environment and culture(s) that shaped their experiences, which is obviously going to shape their views.

 

[MilSpec]

Dear Mods,

I understand it is against forum rules to misrepresent one's nationality on the forum. The reasons are obvious, the most compelling being it is impossible to have an honest discussion if one is pretending to be someone one is not and hiding their allegiance and motives.

However I have come across a peculiar case on the forum, and when I say peculiar I mean its batshyte baffling.

A TT, while correctly wearing his flags, posts as if he is Indian and pretends to speak for Indians. As weird as this sounds, its very frustrating and makes it impossible to really have any conversation as he just keeps going on insane verbal tirades on all kinds of threads pretending to be an Indian (specifically an Indian muslim victim of untold misery).

There are many such posts, one example is below.

I need to know if this fits into forum rules and I can start pretending to be a Pakistani (or a Pakistani Hindu) and go on a victimhood tirade, no matter what the topic. An explanation would be deeply appreciated.



India’s food industry to be worth $65 billion by 2018, report says

And that's why we have facepalm meme's on the internet..... When you come across cuckoo narratives - use them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have said before I am happy to be Pakistani and call myself that but my ethnic group is Lucknowi. I have explained my position on this several times. It is the Indians who cannot understand the ethnic make up of Pakistan. My views on ethnic identity have been explained briefly-I will explain them again.

The word muhajir is a contraption. It was not what (the name) Jinnah intended for migrants who came to newly formed Pakistan controlled territory and it was also a poor term for us because it meant religious nomad. We are settled in cities and are still willing to call ourselves nomads? Then the word urdu speaker did not represent us either-why because there were madrasi malyali, Gujrati Telugu and Tamil speakers among us. What is the solution?

Our real identity can be 3 things. One it can be that we merge as Pashtuns/Sindhis/Baloch/Punjabis. The other option is to reclaim our original identity. That identity is Lucknowi, Madrasi, Dehlvi, Deccan or others. The third is trying to do both.

If some Indians do not understand our loyalty to our motherland which is Lucknow and should have gone to Pakistan this is their problem. I will continue vouching for the merger of Lucknowi territory with Pakistan. As this is a free forum I know I have the freedom to vouch for that. Thanks for your concern.

I would like to disagree, and believe that I may do so with perfect legitimacy, since I am in exactly the same position as @haviZsultan is.

I am born of parents rooted in Bangladesh, in Dhaka and in Barisal respectively, and am an Indian.

It is true that I have the option of living in a part of India that strongly resembles the land of my forebears (it is not the same). Most of my working life has been among other Indians who are strongly embedded in their own ancestral land and their ancestral culture, and who represent alien people, in a way, and yet strongly aligned to me and my people culturally and in religious terms. Socially, one creates one's own spaces and resides at one's own levels, and that is a different matter with no bearing on what we are discussing.

In these discussions that break out from time to time, I find myself deeply sympathetic to Bangladeshis; I have been in skirmishes with them, but none so deep, not recently, that should make us mutual enemies. That sympathy does not mean an urge to unite Bangladesh with India. That would be a ridiculous proposition, and is condescending and patronising to the core. It implies that they are incapable of leading their chosen lives in their own desired way; not in the sense of perfection and heaven on earth, but the right to make choices, the choice between leaving for another country, if they think it is better in that other country, or the choice to remain where they are, assert their ethnicity and right to live in their own land, and continue to prevail over difficulties.

I believe that this is a viable option.

I also believe that we must each take our own principled stand, and have no difficulty accepting that someone else might have different views. They might hate the new state that exists on the shell of the old; they might even wish for a merging of their present location and that old one. These are all free to be chosen. If we have the stomach for it, we might even choose a thoroughly unpleasant option and ram it down the throats of others. That last is a rock-ribbed, characterful option, but it does make the, errm, rock fly around a bit. Or one might take the way of water, flowing as the cracks and hollows and channels permit, never taking shape, never losing shape, overcoming everything effortlessly and moving on immediately.

No exhortatory flourish at the end is necessary, I believe.

It's common in other forums and we have caught a few Indians hiding behind gora names and false identities. I don't know why you're moaning for just because his ''roots'' are the same and his views don't agree with yours and exposes the barbarism of your country.

Anybody particular you had in mind?

 

[Indika]

Dear Mods,

I understand it is against forum rules to misrepresent one's nationality on the forum. The reasons are obvious, the most compelling being it is impossible to have an honest discussion if one is pretending to be someone one is not and hiding their allegiance and motives.

However I have come across a peculiar case on the forum, and when I say peculiar I mean its batshyte baffling.

A TT, while correctly wearing his flags, posts as if he is Indian and pretends to speak for Indians. As weird as this sounds, its very frustrating and makes it impossible to really have any conversation as he just keeps going on insane verbal tirades on all kinds of threads pretending to be an Indian (specifically an Indian muslim victim of untold misery).

There are many such posts, one example is below.

I need to know if this fits into forum rules and I can start pretending to be a Pakistani (or a Pakistani Hindu) and go on a victimhood tirade, no matter what the topic. An explanation would be deeply appreciated.



India’s food industry to be worth $65 billion by 2018, report says

Yes he is known false flagger. Most of his statements clearly exposes him. He neither has guts to put the right flag nor a good reason to join his ilk on the other side of border.

 

[gambit]

The bottom line is that Chinese-Americans should not speak for or represent China. Importantly though they are Chinese by heritage, culture and ethnicity, but they should not act like they are born and bred China-Chinese, because then that's sort of like masquerading.

Then tell the Chinese group here. Not me.

When I said that a person should flag his country of allegiance, not his geographical residence, that was in RESPONSE to how the Chinese-Americans on this forum tends to cheer for China. So admonish them, not me.

That's why I'm saying their views should not be representative of China.

Good. Now go to the Chinese sub-forum and tell the Chinese members that.

Regarding treason I think you need to look up the definition before dangerously throwing around words that you're unsure about.

As a veteran, I probably understand the real contexts of 'treason' better than you do.

There are many ways to betray your country of citizenship. The easiest is to simply believe and advocate an alternative country to your own. Plenty of Americans cheered for the Soviet Union back during the Cold War. I met many of them. It is called 'intellectual treason'. You simply point out and exaggerate the flaws of your country, to absurd levels if necessary, while proposing that other country as the superior alternative.

But let me ask you this, did the Chinese-American you are talking about ever feel a sense of "belonging" in America? Did you yourself ever consider Chinese-Americans as belonging to America? Did you welcome them like you did other White Europeans? I don't think so. America never treated those of Chinese heritage very well. From the Yellow Peril, anti-Chinese legislation (e.g. Chinese exclusion acts), Chinese massacres in USA, murder of Vincent Chin, Hollywood's representation of Asians and Chinese, the demonisation of Chinese people in American media and news, the list goes on. You can't blame Chinese-Americans for "betrayal" since White Americans have alienated them in such a cruel manner throughout history and to this day, it's really unsurprising they do not feel any sort of kinship with the likes of that demographic.

Any Chinese-American who betrays the US in anyway because of historical wrongs against the Chinese, I will call him 'full of shit'.

To this day ? How many Chinese-Americans are in the levels of government, local and federal ? How many Asians are there in the US military ?

Asian Pacific Americans in the U.S. Army | The United States Army

How about the USS Chung-Hoon, an Arleigh Burke class destroyer named for a Chinese-American from Hawaii ? Care to tell us how many PLAN ships are named after non-Chinese ?

We are not perfect, but sure as the sky is blue, the US is all around better than your China. So yes, I can and will blame any Chinese-American who betrays his country for imaginary racial slights.

Um, I don't care? I'm not American by nationality or identity. It really isn't my place to intrude on issues that have nothing to do with me. But if you're asking for my opinion, I think they can do what they want. You need to stop oppressing other peoples rights to do what they want, especially if it doesn't actually harm you like a terrorist attack. Are you physically bleeding from that user supporting China instead of America or something

Since when is expressing an opinion qualified as 'oppression' ? If I tell you 'Give me all your money', that qualified as robbery even though no money exchanged hands ? Calling an opinion as 'oppression' is the path of the intellectually fragile, son.

But it is funny that you said '...they can do what they want...'.

They -- meaning the Chinese-Americans -- want to speak for China. But instead of telling them to stop it, you lectured me simply because I want them to flag their real allegiance. Since you said earlier that a Chinese-American should not speak for China, why are you 'oppressing' his rights to do what he want ?

If a Chinese-American supports China then it means he supports his heritage and the land of his ancestors.

Why ? For a Chinese-American, what has China done for him other than to provide the genetics that made him look different than an African or a European ? In terms of 'heritage', white men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, or even Ronald Raygun have done more for him than Confucius or Mao Tse-tung.

But he should not act like he is speaking on behalf of the people of China because that is just selfish, and he needs to mindful of the fact that culturally he is mostly American / Western in his mindset.

Good...Now go to the Chinese sub-forum and tell the Chinese members that. However, I doubt that you have the courage to do so.

Looky here...Over the Internet, no one has any means to control someone else. If an Italian want to speak for Japan, everyone will have to live and debate as is. And precisely because YOU cannot control anyone, asking a person to flag his country of psychological and emotional allegiance make sense.

I don't think age matters, or any sort of appeal to authority fallacies. If a 5 year old posts something so thought provoking and insightful, it's not like we should discredit him because of his age. It means he is a genius.

Why the hell not ?

When you posited that a Chinese-American should not speak for China because he lacks vital social conditioning that a 'China Chinese' have, that is an appeal to authority with social/cultural factors as authority figures. So why is age immediately disqualified ? When was the last time a 5-yr old produced something the equivalent of Confucius, Mushashi, Burke, or Plato ? In Asian cultures, age is respected. But I guess for you, it is conveniently discarded when an American is involved, right ?

But by not showing a Vietnamese flag, if you speak in any Vietnam related issues, then your credibility is dismissed.

So if I sport no flags, I have no credibility no matter where and what subject ? That is funny considering there are plenty of debating forums where flags are not available. What then ?

People are going to just roll their eyes and think "ugh, what is a White American doing here". That's why I think it's better to have two flags, it's difficult to lump people in one category.

That is odd.

If a Chinese-American who is US-borne, does not speak any Chinese dialect, and never been to China, how does sporting a Chinese flag make his arguments about Chinese issues any more credible ? What you are saying is contradictory. You want to make it difficult to lump a person into a cubbyhole, but then you want him to display a flag of a country to which he has no ties so you can lump him into that country. I know plenty of Chinese-Americans who prefers Italian cuisine over Chinese cuisine, but if they wave Chinese flags, it would make their opinions about Chinese cuisine credible ? Do you have any ideas how racist that actually sounds ?

Okay well I have only recently joined this forum. And you don't know if they are actually China Chinese. They might be like you who display a double China flag since they are pandering to their psychological, ideological, and emotional allegiance, yet completely ignoring their cultural mindset and the environment and culture(s) that shaped their experiences, which is obviously going to shape their views.

Then what would be the point of having ANY flag since the display of even one flag would be enough to cast suspicions/doubts as to a person's real identity ?

 

[Barrel-Bomba]

hey @haviZsultan sir, I finally made sense of what you had replied when I asked if you'd ever been to Lucknow.

iska matlab aap kaafi senior ho, chalo maan li aapki baat, now I can kind of understand your sentiment, still think it's a bit crazy and given just how long it's been, perhaps you should try and accept things how they are now.

got a question for you, what about the younger generation of muhajirs that was born in Pakistan, I can't imagine them sharing your sentiment about their ancestral city/land or wherever their parents/grandparents migrated from, do they ?

 

[Wolfwind]

This is getting way too wordy I'm just going to talk about the main points of misrepresentation.

Then tell the Chinese group here. Not me.

When I said that a person should flag his country of allegiance, not his geographical residence, that was in RESPONSE to how the Chinese-Americans on this forum tends to cheer for China. So admonish them, not me.

No I'm telling you because you didn't understand. And I haven't seen anybody masquerading as a China-Chinese yet.

Since you said earlier that a Chinese-American should not speak for China, why are you 'oppressing' his rights to do what he want ?

They can support China if they choose to. That is their choice. They can support both their resident country and their ethnic country, or neither. But they should not mislead others into thinking they are born and bred China Chinese. Does that make sense?

When you posited that a Chinese-American should not speak for China because he lacks vital social conditioning that a 'China Chinese' have, that is an appeal to authority with social/cultural factors as authority figures. So why is age immediately disqualified ? When was the last time a 5-yr old produced something the equivalent of Confucius, Mushashi, Burke, or Plato ? In Asian cultures, age is respected. But I guess for you, it is conveniently discarded when an American is involved, right ?

Gambit you're confusing yourself again.
Their response might not even be representative or reflect the true views of someone from China because their experience and cultural mindset is going to be different, as I have explained many times now. This is not an appeal to authority fallacy. In contrast, age should not disqualify someones views because their posts might be perfectly valid.

So if I sport no flags, I have no credibility no matter where and what subject ? That is funny considering there are plenty of debating forums where flags are not available. What then ?

Well if you choose to sport no flags then people are going to speculate information about you. So you have to be prepared to deal with people speculating your identity, usually in a negative and suspicious way.

If a Chinese-American who is US-borne, does not speak any Chinese dialect, and never been to China, how does sporting a Chinese flag make his arguments about Chinese issues any more credible ? What you are saying is contradictory. You want to make it difficult to lump a person into a cubbyhole, but then you want him to display a flag of a country to which he has no ties so you can lump him into that country. I know plenty of Chinese-Americans who prefers Italian cuisine over Chinese cuisine, but if they wave Chinese flags, it would make their opinions about Chinese cuisine credible ? Do you have any ideas how racist that actually sounds ?

Well we are effectively relying on peoples honesty to display their actual identity. There's always people who want to deceive though. It's not contradictory because their experience as a Chinese-American is going to be different from say, a White-American. And as for the flags, since they are of that heritage that it is assumed that they know what they are talking about when it comes to their ethnic cuisine and issues surrounding their ancestral home.

Then what would be the point of having ANY flag since the display of even one flag would be enough to cast suspicions/doubts as to a person's real identity ?

Because it still reveals the mindset of that poster. For instance, since they display a double China flag then it might mean they really love China, even though it doesn't accurately convey their identity as Chinese-Americans.

 

[gambit]

No I'm telling you because you didn't understand. And I haven't seen anybody masquerading as a China-Chinese yet.

They can support China if they choose to. That is their choice. They can support both their resident country and their ethnic country, or neither. But they should not mislead others into thinking they are born and bred China Chinese. Does that make sense?

Who is talking about 'masquerading' ? YOU are.

All this time I have been talking about Chinese-Americans supporting China. If I and others know they are Chinese-Americans, that means they said so. Supporting for does not equate to pretending to be someone else. The mainland Chinese know who these Chinese-Americans are and welcome the support from these traitors.

There are plenty of Chinese supporters on this forum, and from them, I have seen even the laws of physics violated with no one from the Chinese camp correcting them, so why should the mainland Chinese cares if someone supports China say something that they know is wrong about China ? It is about the numbers of supporters a country can muster up. There are few Americans here and we do not care. But for the juvenile Chinese, how many cheerleaders they can call upon matters. It has never been about 'masquerading' and I never said so. The words were 'support' and 'speaks for'. Never said 'pretend' or anything similar.

You lectured me about my English but you are the one who have been confused all this time ?