Misery Index: Who's Less Miserable? India or Pakistan?

[nahtanbob]

What is Pakistan's Real GDP?

Misery Index: Who's Less Miserable? India or Pakistan?

News, analysis and opinions about India, Pakistan, US, Canada, Europe, Mid East, South Asia, Silicon Valley, High Technology, Economy, Politics, World

www.riazhaq.com

Many economists believe that Pakistan’s economy is at least double the size that is officially reported in government's Economic Surveys. The GDP has not been rebased in more than a decade. It was last rebased in 2005-6 while India’s was rebased in 2011 and Bangladesh’s in 2013. Just rebasing the Pakistani economy will result in at least 50% increase in official GDP. A research paper by economists Ali Kemal and Ahmad Wasim of PIDE (Pakistan Institute of Development Economics) estimated in 2012 that the Pakistani economy’s size then was around $400 billion. All they did was look at the consumption data to reach their conclusion. They used the data reported in regular PSLM (Pakistan Social and Living Standard Measurements) surveys on actual living standards. They found that a huge chunk of the country's economy is undocumented.

Pakistan's service sector which contributes more than 50% of the country's GDP is mostly cash-based and least documented. There is a lot of currency in circulation. According to the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP), the currency in circulation has increased to Rs. 7.4 trillion by the end of the financial year 2020-21, up from Rs 6.7 trillion in the last financial year, a double-digit growth of 10.4% year-on-year. Currency in circulation (CIC), as percent of M2 money supply and currency-to-deposit ratio, has been increasing over the last few years. The CIC/M2 ratio is now close to 30%. The average CIC/M2 ratio in FY18-21 was measured at 28%, up from 22% in FY10-15. This 1.2 trillion rupee increase could have generated undocumented GDP of Rs 3.1 trillion at the historic velocity of 2.6, according to a report in The Business Recorder. In comparison to Bangladesh (CIC/M2 at 13%), Pakistan’s cash economy is double the size. Even a casual observer can see that the living standards in Pakistan are higher than those in Bangladesh and India.

Exactly what do Pakistanis do to make that money ? It is not reflected in the exports

 

[RiazHaq]

Aakar Patel | No good news: It’s difficult to be an optimist in India today

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong

Aakar Patel | No good news: It’s difficult to be an optimist in India today

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong

www.deccanchronicle.com

It is not easy to find good news in India and has not been easy for a long time now. A recent report said that the Indian economy is contracting again in this quarter, between April and June, by more than double digits.

This report from one agency was carried in multiple media outlets but it was not refuted or commented upon by others, including by the government. It was just assumed to be true. After 24 months of slowdown starting in January 2018 before the Covid-19 pandemic, and then 18 months of collapse since January 2020, we have turned into the world’s worst performing economy.

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong or what it plans to do to correct it. Former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in an interview last year offered five points to correct course, but he also added that a course-correction was possible only after one had acknowledged that there was a problem.



Since we have not accepted that anything is wrong, we will continue.

CMIE, the only body offering regular employment data (the Narendra Modi government has little data and says that it is conducting some surveys, whose results will come around the end of the year) says that unemployment in India is at 11 per cent, higher than Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Inflation is high though demand is low, and wholesale prices are at their highest since 1992. Petrol is around Rs.100 a litre, diesel is almost there and the price of crude oil is expected to rise another 20 per cent by the end of the year. Exports are at the same level as they were in 2014 and in seven years under Narendra Modi have shown no growth, though in the same period Bangladesh and Vietnam have grown and China has held onto its share.


Eighty crore Indians are being given free food for seven months from May till November. Five kilos of wheat or rice per person per month and one kilo of dal. In May, 16 lakh tonnes of wheat and 15 lakh tonnes of rice was distributed.
Sixty per cent of Indians depend on free food. This should tell you more than enough about the state of poverty in India today.

When Mr Modi took over in 2014, he said MGNREGA was a monument to the failure of the Manmohan Singh government. He would give people real jobs, and not MGNREGA jobs. The MGNREGA programme’s size last year was three times what it was under UPA rule because crores of people have lost their jobs and fallen into poverty and now depend on MGNREGA and free foodgrains. The Gujarat government put out a statement last week which said that MGNREGA was a lifesaver.



Elsewhere, it has been a year since the clash in Ladakh. China has stopped its disengagement. This means India has to keep tens of thousands of troops in that area almost permanently.

China has also told us that it is demoting the level of talks, and now only area commanders will discuss specific issues rather than general disagreement. Our soldiers still cannot patrol in the Depsang Plain but the government has not acknowledged that or held a single press briefing on Ladakh since the crisis began a year ago. Opacity is the hallmark of dictatorships and not democracies, but this is the status of our national security.


India was supposed to be the Vaccine Guru and Vaccine Factory for the world. Instead, India has wrecked the world’s vaccination programme by stopping the delivery of vaccines others already paid for in advance and which were manufactured in India. Our government has begun taking over those stocks while the world waits. Even with that, India has only managed to fully vaccinate only three per cent of its population against the world’s average of nine per cent.

 

[Bilal9]

This misery idex means nothing and is rubbish. It's just a feel good index highlighted by the OP because his nation Pakistan fares better than India in this rubbish index.
This index belongs with other rubbish indexes like most happy, most content, most self sufficient etc etc.

So - whatever paints Sanghi India in not such a good light, will be rubbish?

I'd say take all these reports and ponder what happened during Sanghi rule and what Modi did to Indian economy. So many sources (almost all from Indian media) cannot be engaged in a "dhoka" to unseat Modi. Self-reflection is not a bad thing, we do it in Bangladesh all the time.

We Bangladeshis are always the first to call our own country a $hithole - it is what it is. Realization is the first road to an effort to "do better" and eventual recovery. Nationalism --> Fascism is a slippery slope. No country can be "mahaan" all the time, especially when reality is staring it's citizens in the face. 99% of India does not look like Gurugram or Navi Mumbai. Sanghis of all people should realize this.

Reports from Indian media about economics and human development indicators...

With better development indicators, spectre of a Bangladeshi cross-over to India is ill-founded

In the last decade, on a range of social development indicators, Bangladesh has fared better than India. Even on the cricket pitch, Bangladesh beat India at the junior world cup. So why would Bangladeshis en masse want to leave their cherished homeland?

indianexpress.com

Bangladesh is better off than India, not a poor, backward neighbour anymore

Bangladesh has come a long way since its independence in 1971, registering impressive performance on economic and social indicator.

theprint.in

Bangladesh GDP: Why Bangladesh has left India far behind | India News - Times of India

India News: In just 10 short years, the country has surpassed its much bigger neighbour on several economic and social development metrics

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

View: Lessons for India from the Bangladesh growth story

The recent economic performance of Bangladesh should be a wake-up call for India to focus on low-skill production. The need of the hour is to enable the creation of industries that provide mass employment. To do so, it is necessary for India to fire its manufacturing cylinder and only then can...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Economic Survey 2021: Why Bangladesh Has Beaten India In Export Growth

Bangladesh’s outperformance is because it ‘exports those commodities in which it has competitive advantage’.

www.bloombergquint.com

Bangladesh Economy Outperforming India

Bangladesh, buoyed by its garment industry, is gradually becoming an economic power

www.ibtimes.com

The Bangladesh we don’t know: It’s no longer a basket case. India can learn some lessons from its export dynamism

Last week ended with the gloomy news that India’s merchandise exports fell for the sixth straight month. It reiterates the fact that the role of exports in economic growth is declining. This trend has also...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Bangladesh’s economy is soaring - here's why

Bangladesh hopes to lose its Least Developed Country classification within five years.

www.weforum.org

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

Where are the rats @SMX 3.0 and @Sudarshan hiding? We've been saying this for years, now the world is catching up to it.
No sympathies for you MISERABLE rats though.

Rats wearing lungi with fudged gdp data. Hope there lungi rats don't come India to relieve their misery.

 

[-=virus=-]

congratulations on being 'less miserable', Pakistan.

well deserved

 

[Maira La]

Rats wearing lungi with fudged gdp data. Hope there lungi rats don't come India to relieve their misery.

Another sewer rat just crawled out of the hole. Our GDP/capita gap with you is now $500 and growing, no wonder you are miserable. Millions of illegal Indians are already in BD, I hope the upcoming waves of Indian illegals are met with submachine guns at the border.

 

[Jugger]

Homelessness, poverty, hunger, minimum wage, living standards of most of the population, people, people, people everywhere? Entire cities in disgusting smells, foul breeds of animals running around, or the general level of cleanliness in those overcrowded cities? - keep making babies- even most of European countries are minnows compared to India

If that makes you happy- than keep at it
We are with you!

And no you were truly exposed - these indicators matter when you feel like it and suits the argument
They don't when you don't feel like it

Intellectual bankruptcy and dishonesty

If this satisfies your ego, then go ahead enjoy.
But remember that bashing India will not mitigate your bone crushing inflation or solve your political crysis or stop terrorism in your country.
Go and ask anyone from the civilised world what they think of Pakistan....! You will get your answer.

 

[Black Tornado]

So by your definition, any index shows Modi's India's weaknesses is "rubbish"....including world happiness index, global hunger index, food affordability index, India's declining labor force participation rates, India's low minimum wage, etc etc.

I suggest you listen to Aakar Patel and read his book to get a sense how far India has declined under Modi:

Aakar Patel | No good news: It’s difficult to be an optimist in India today

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong

Aakar Patel | No good news: It’s difficult to be an optimist in India today

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong

www.deccanchronicle.com

It is not easy to find good news in India and has not been easy for a long time now. A recent report said that the Indian economy is contracting again in this quarter, between April and June, by more than double digits.

This report from one agency was carried in multiple media outlets but it was not refuted or commented upon by others, including by the government. It was just assumed to be true. After 24 months of slowdown starting in January 2018 before the Covid-19 pandemic, and then 18 months of collapse since January 2020, we have turned into the world’s worst performing economy.

India’s economic growth has been falling for 42 months now, but the government has not spoken about why that is so and what went wrong or what it plans to do to correct it. Former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in an interview last year offered five points to correct course, but he also added that a course-correction was possible only after one had acknowledged that there was a problem.



Since we have not accepted that anything is wrong, we will continue.

CMIE, the only body offering regular employment data (the Narendra Modi government has little data and says that it is conducting some surveys, whose results will come around the end of the year) says that unemployment in India is at 11 per cent, higher than Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Inflation is high though demand is low, and wholesale prices are at their highest since 1992. Petrol is around Rs.100 a litre, diesel is almost there and the price of crude oil is expected to rise another 20 per cent by the end of the year. Exports are at the same level as they were in 2014 and in seven years under Narendra Modi have shown no growth, though in the same period Bangladesh and Vietnam have grown and China has held onto its share.


Eighty crore Indians are being given free food for seven months from May till November. Five kilos of wheat or rice per person per month and one kilo of dal. In May, 16 lakh tonnes of wheat and 15 lakh tonnes of rice was distributed.
Sixty per cent of Indians depend on free food. This should tell you more than enough about the state of poverty in India today.

When Mr Modi took over in 2014, he said MGNREGA was a monument to the failure of the Manmohan Singh government. He would give people real jobs, and not MGNREGA jobs. The MGNREGA programme’s size last year was three times what it was under UPA rule because crores of people have lost their jobs and fallen into poverty and now depend on MGNREGA and free foodgrains. The Gujarat government put out a statement last week which said that MGNREGA was a lifesaver.



Elsewhere, it has been a year since the clash in Ladakh. China has stopped its disengagement. This means India has to keep tens of thousands of troops in that area almost permanently.

China has also told us that it is demoting the level of talks, and now only area commanders will discuss specific issues rather than general disagreement. Our soldiers still cannot patrol in the Depsang Plain but the government has not acknowledged that or held a single press briefing on Ladakh since the crisis began a year ago. Opacity is the hallmark of dictatorships and not democracies, but this is the status of our national security.


India was supposed to be the Vaccine Guru and Vaccine Factory for the world. Instead, India has wrecked the world’s vaccination programme by stopping the delivery of vaccines others already paid for in advance and which were manufactured in India. Our government has begun taking over those stocks while the world waits. Even with that, India has only managed to fully vaccinate only three per cent of its population against the world’s average of nine per cent.

Aakar Patel is a meme in India, I can understan who’s miserable by seeing who’s more desperate to find anti-India anti-Modi content no matter who makes them. These meme pages like the wire said India’s GDP will slip 30% and India’s covid cases would be far worse than the developed world. Or how India’s poverty has increased despite increasing GDP (showing their own stupidity), or how GST destroyed India (GST collections say otherwise).

Stats reflect reality notopinions of left wing idiots. Tomorrow will you accept what PML-N supporters says about your economy?

Who’s seeing a surge in FDI?
Who’s seeing a surge in Startup Funding?
Who’s seeing a surge in market capitalisation?
Who’s seeing a surge in trade?

Edit: Lol the article was posted in June, “we’ll see a recession this quarter as well”, we all saw how big of a recession 20% GDP growth was .

Thats why I say these portals are parody accounts of journalism. They speak nonsense and congress chamchas call it the truth.

They are paid to produce anti-rightwing content andthey make it with sources as credible as them like CMIE claiming India’s jobs in manufacturing sector have halved despite output growing 2 times, that whould mean a huge automation but is it?

 

[SMC]

Aakar Patel is a meme in India, I can understan who’s miserable by seeing who’s more desperate to find anti-India anti-Modi content no matter who makes them. These meme pages like the wire said India’s GDP will slip 30% and India’s covid cases would be far worse than the developed world. Or how India’s poverty has increased despite increasing GDP (showing their own stupidity), or how GST destroyed India (GST collections say otherwise).

Stats reflect reality notopinions of left wing idiots. Tomorrow will you accept what PML-N supporters says about your economy?

Who’s seeing a surge in FDI?
Who’s seeing a surge in Startup Funding?
Who’s seeing a surge in market capitalisation?
Who’s seeing a surge in trade?

Edit: Lol the article was posted in June, “we’ll see a recession this quarter as well”, we all saw how big of a recession 20% GDP growth was .

Thats why I say these portals are parody accounts of journalism. They speak nonsense and congress chamchas call it the truth.

They are paid to produce anti-rightwing content andthey make it with sources as credible as them like CMIE claiming India’s jobs in manufacturing sector have halved despite output growing 2 times, that whould mean a huge automation but is it?

As usual, Indians focused on what benefits the wealthy rather than the broad indicators that show the status of the poor and the middle class.

 

[Black Tornado]

As usual, Indians focused on what benefits the wealthy rather than the broad indicators that show the status of the poor and the middle class.

Ofcourse, thats why ya’ll voting for Imran bhai next time despite the sky high inflation?

 

[Maula Jatt]

If this satisfies your ego, then go ahead enjoy.
But remember that bashing India will not mitigate your bone crushing inflation or solve your political crysis or stop terrorism in your country.
Go and ask anyone from the civilised world what they think of Pakistan....! You will get your answer.

Well you crap talk on being better than others you should expect to hear back- not ego satisfying if I said it out of the blue

its simply mirror for people who like to talk shit
I am the bad guy if I said it randomly out of nowhere that's my fault- but you sir suffer illusions of granduare

That terrorism argument is kinda old at this point..., nations go through inflation cycles all the time
Turkey is going through rn, Greece went through it so many others went through it- it's part and parcel of life- not a constant like the things I mentioned consistent poverty, homelessness,less pay, squalor living conditions, hunger etc etc
Who cares what they think- they even like Iran less - does that mean average Iranian lives a worse off life? - Means nothing here

 

[CatSultan]

No secularism- Pakistan is a muslim country. No need for anything secular. Period
Extremism- Agree.
Mullahism- Agree
Caste system- It is a problem, but not as big as in India.
Feudalism- Huge problem. Something needs to be done.
Lack of freedom- Explain?
Very few alchohol brands- No alcohol in a muslim country. Should be banned.
No dance bars- Are you serious? I dont know where in Pakistan you live, but there are nightclubs in Lahore, Islamabad and Karachi.

@Imran Khan is mad that the majority of people don't accept his hedonistic lifestyle.

 

[RiazHaq]

#India has 46, #China 42, #Pakistan 6 & #Bangladesh 4 cities among the top 100 most polluted cities in the world. #Lahore ranks third behind #Dhaka, the capital of #Bangladesh, and #Mongolia’s capital #Ulaanbaatar on the #pollution index. #AirQuality https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...e-worlds-100-most-polluted-cities-interactive

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463309813983571972

Every year, a thick smog covers India’s capital New Delhi. Last week, it got so bad for the 20 million residents that authorities shut schools.

New Delhi’s concentration of PM2.5 particles, which damage people’s lungs, is 34 times the World Health Organization’s (WHO) acceptable levels. The toxic haze is especially bad during the winter as farmers burn stubble left in their fields.

Air quality is determined by the levels of air pollutants PM2.5, PM10, ozone, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and carbon monoxide.

Particulate matter (PM) comprises tiny particles that negatively impact health. PMs vary in size, most damaging are PM2.5 and PM10 – with a diameter of less than 2.5 μm and 10μm respectively. A human hair’s diameter is 50-70 μm.

PM2.5 levels lower than 12 are considered good, 55-150 unhealthy and 250 or above is hazardous.

In 2020, India had 46 of the world’s 100 most polluted cities, followed by China (42), Pakistan (6), Bangladesh (4), Indonesia (1), and Thailand (1), according to air quality tracker IQAir. All these cities had a PM2.5 air-quality rating of more than 50.

Nine out of the top 10 most polluted cities are in India.

Hotan, in western China’s Xinjiang, had the worst average air quality in 2020, with 110.2.

In 2019, 1.67 million deaths in India were caused by air pollution, according to the Lancet.

While replacing solid fuels with alternatives has lowered deaths linked to household air pollution since 1990, deaths related to ambient PMs have increased.

Fifteen of the 20 most polluted cities are in India, mostly in the north. Stubble burning spikes pollution in autumn and winter. Vehicle emissions, industry, and burning rubbish also contribute to high levels of PM2.5 and other pollutants.

Some Indian and Chinese cities have installed smog towers to try to tackle air pollution

New Delhi installed two after an order by India’s Supreme Court – one is in a busy shopping area.

The $2m 25-metre (82-foot) high tower’s 40 fans take in particle-laden air at 1,000 cubic metres (35,000 cubic feet) per second and pass it through filters.

The smog tower works within a one kilometre (0.6-mile) radius, supposedly cutting PM2.5 levels by 50 percent. But questions remain over how efficient they really are.


According to the WHO, some 7 million people die annually as a result of air pollution. More than 90 percent of the world’s population lives in areas where air pollution exceeds WHO limits.


Air pollution is linked to a number of illnesses including asthma, diabetes, and heart disease.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Agreed!

India

With a score of 27.3 in the 2024 Global Hunger Index, India has a level of hunger that is serious.

www.globalhungerindex.org

LMAO...Even more hungry and poor than NoKo it is still ahead of Bdesh and the big bad Pakis.. I wonder what they tech them in saffron schools... absolutely amazing...

Exactly what do Pakistanis do to make that money ? It is not reflected in the exports

Pakistan has a very huge under ground/black economy

 

[Meengla]

Mobilizing Bangladeshis in some endeavor (especially gainful value adding endeavor), keeps them out of trouble and prevents them from burning tyres on the streets.

Population density is high in Bangladesh because historically almost all of the flat land is highly arable, fertile and under cultivation or pisciculture. You need people to work the land. There is almost zero fallow land in Bangladesh. Even house roofs have melons growing on them. Floating patches grow vegetables, a technique present for thousands of years.

I think that is the only secret. We all know Bangladeshis are a highly reactionary bunch, but they have been managed well, channeling their energy toward positive development. Education helped too.

Your belly is full, you tend to be happy. Homogeneity helps, but is over-rated. Bangladeshis (like other desis) will always find a way to put each other down. But we also are very critical of our own selves.

Pakistan is a more industrialized country than Bangladesh when it comes to basic small industry, so I'm surprised at the statistics. Like @RiazHaq bhai said, stats are under-reported in Pakistan possibly because of tax reasons.

Great informative and humble post.
Yes, BD maybe over-crowded but it does have lots of water and arable land. Plus other factors as you mentioned.
People also need to realize that a large part of Pakistan is desert/arid and yet the population of Pakistan is bigger than BD.
I tend to think Pakistan's problems/not realizing full potentials are deeply rooted in geopolitics. Unlike BD, Pakistan is in really tough geopolitical situation and I think the approximate two decades lost by Pakistan since 1989, on top of huge spending and focus on defense matters since 1947, had a direct connection with geopolitical events. BD is very lucky--or wise--on that count.