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Mirage math: Israel better than France

sudhir007

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New Delhi, Dec. 10: Israel is close to swinging an order to upgrade French-origin Mirage 2000 aircraft with the Indian Air Force (IAF) despite France’s charm offensive in hosting the Indian military on the Champs Elysees.

Tel Aviv has offered to upgrade the frontline fighter aircraft, of which the IAF has three squadrons, at rates nearly 40 per cent less than the price quoted by the French.

Israel, whose chief of defence staff returns to Tel Aviv after visiting New Delhi this week for the first time since diplomatic relations were established in 1992, is also favoured to win an order for 18 quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs) from the Indian Army that could cost more than Rs 2,000 crore.

The possible loss of the Mirage 2000 upgrade bid will hurt the French the most.

In July this year, France had hosted Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and, in a rare honour, contingents of the Indian armed forces led the Bastille Day parade. Last week, French defence minister Herve Morin was in New Delhi courting the Indian defence establishment.

Early next month, President Nicolas Sarkozy could be back in India with wife Carla Bruni whom he has promised to take to Taj Mahal. Sarkozy visited India in January last year minus Carla.

Defence ministry sources said the delegation led by Israeli defence services chief, General Gabi Ashkenazi, made presentations to the top brass, including the chief of air staff, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, on the Mirage 2000 upgrade that Israel Aircraft Industries would carry out in collaboration with other firms.

In back-of-the envelope calculations, the cost of the Israeli bid totals Rs 96 crore per aircraft while the French bid is worth Rs 152 crore. The IAF has at least 51 Mirage 2000s.

The upgrade would include superior avionics and electronic warfare systems that would extend the service life of the aircraft by 15 years.

Although French companies Dassault Aviation and Thales are the original equipment suppliers, the price quoted, say defence ministry sources, may be put to better use by ordering new aircraft.

The French have already beaten down prices and there is a possibility they will go even lower. They are keen that the deal be done at the time of Sarkozy’s visit, though similar hopes during Singh’s Paris visit in July were dashed.

For the Spyder QR-SAM missile systems, the army may sign a contract within a month. The IAF has already contracted the Israelis for the systems.

The close-range missile defence systems are meant as a protective shield for the army’s critical immovable assets.

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Mirage math: Israel better than France
 
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why iaf want to upgrade mirage-2000 at 41-45million $ i know it is very good ground attack fighter when IAF get at same amount better band new plane like su-34 fullback or su-35
 
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why iaf want to upgrade mirage-2000 at 41-45million $ i know it is very good ground attack fighter when IAF get at same amount better band new plane like su-34 fullback or su-35

Just trying to suggest a reason.Well su-34 & su-35 will take a lot of time in being delivered. Its always easy and fast to upgrade the existing inventory rather than purchase new one.Also I think Russia at the moment doesnt have the industrial capacity to produce all those jets quickly and we might have to wait a long time to get them. As we can see there is a trade-off. Wait for the delays and get a better jet or upgrade the existing though with a lesser service life.

P.S : Ever played Hearts Of Iron 2 or 3 ?
 
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why iaf want to upgrade mirage-2000 at 41-45million $ i know it is very good ground attack fighter when IAF get at same amount better band new plane like su-34 fullback or su-35

My guess is that in addition to getting refitted with upgraded technology, they may want to add the communication channel with it and Phalcon.

40+ million was the price suggested by France, 40% below that Isreal quote would come down to 25+ million that sounds reasonable. These planes can then be used till 2025 or so.
 
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why iaf want to upgrade mirage-2000 at 41-45million $ i know it is very good ground attack fighter when IAF get at same amount better band new plane like su-34 fullback or su-35

Upgrading is quicker then Inducting 51 new fighters.

the IAF's main strike fighter is the Mirage

Loosing these fighters without, replacements in the ready

Will diminish the India's, already understrength air force.
Unless you can come up with a way to induct 51 planes in at least 2 years.

The only option left for the IAF is to upgrade them, Which can be done with far less impact on force levels.
 
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Would the changes done by Israel would be equivalent to that proposed by France? Cause if they are, why is France sitting idle, not 'upgrading' its bargain? This should look bad for avionic sector of France. There should be some catch with this deal offered by Israel.:what:
 
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Upgrading is quicker then Inducting 51 new fighters.the IAF's main strike fighter is the Mirage. Loosing these fighters without, replacements in the ready Will diminish the India's, already understrength air force. Unless you can come up with a way to induct 51 planes in at least 2 years. The only option left for the IAF is to upgrade them, Which can be done with far less impact on force levels.


I have an additional point...whenever it comes to Upgrade vs new Planes people just talk about induction time vs upgrade time but what about the fighter pilots ...the ground staff etc etc who have spend days and days of training on these platforms??? I know we have other russian jets in our inventory so may be logistics is not an issue but don't you think adapting to a new platform like Su-35 from Mirage 2000 will also be a factor in the decision making???

As far as i am concerned it should be the biggest factor since we all know a fighter plane is as good as its handler...The more i know the machine i am flying the more my chances of surviving and cooking the *** of my adversary....
 
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I have an additional point...whenever it comes to Upgrade vs new Planes people just talk about induction time vs upgrade time but what about the fighter pilots ...the ground staff etc etc who have spend days and days of training on these platforms??? I know we have other russian jets in our inventory so may be logistics is not an issue but don't you think adapting to a new platform like Su-35 from Mirage 2000 will also be a factor in the decision making???

As far as i am concerned it should be the biggest factor since we all know a fighter plane is as good as its handler...The more i know the machine i am flying the more my chances of surviving and cooking the *** of my adversary....

I would discount your point in the light that we have been operating Su-30's ( which are very simillar to su-35) from round about a decade for now . To train the new pilots for Su-35 and have an operational doctrine wont be a big problem and though it is a factor albeit a miniscule one.
 
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Upgrading is quicker then Inducting 51 new fighters.

the IAF's main strike fighter is the Mirage

Loosing these fighters without, replacements in the ready

Will diminish the India's, already understrength air force.
Unless you can come up with a way to induct 51 planes in at least 2 years.

The only option left for the IAF is to upgrade them, Which can be done with far less impact on force levels.
I dnt think so you can see in the deal Ist 2 plane come after 24 month deal sign. As u see in the mrca 18 plane come after 36 month so the real difference is only one yr but the total benefit it round double upgraded mirage increase it life around 10-15 yr but brand new plane life is 30 yr
 
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