Mirage, F-7PG and other combat aircrafts

[OttoPyr]

So, if I understand correctly, all these planes are called F-7MP. But, those that in the first picture, it is the former F-7P modified up to F-7MP standard (20 pcs.). I guess even that spot under the cockpit (at 5XX) hides a number that the plane had been when the F-7P. In the second picture samples that were originally produced for the F-7MP standard (40 pcs.). In the third picture sample from the last series that closely unified with F-7PG (60 pcs.).


But I still have a question - as originally looked 20 F-7P before modification? Anybody can show pictures of F-7P? And yet, I see that the samples from the first and second photo are very different. So what changed the Chinese when Pakistan returned the first 20 aircraft? I look at these photos and I can not say that all three samples belong to one standard, namely the F-7MP. Sorry, but they differ too much. Can I call them as "F-7MP sample 1988", "F-7MP sample 1989" and "F-7MP sample of 1999"?

 

[nomi007]

 

[Paksanity]

Thank you, Desert Fighter!
But I think I need to show what is causing me questions. Here are some photos which I have noted only a few differences between the planes.

And all these planes are called F-7MP

Correct name is F-7P. The Chinese produced F-7M as export version of J-7. The export version customized for Pakistan is called F-7P. First batch was serial number 501-520. These aircraft have straight rudder line. Later aircraft were serial numbered 5xx and last batch is serial numbered 7xx. Cranked delta wing is F-7PG, derived from F-7MG which is chinese designation of export version. These are the newest in fleet with serial numbers 8xx. The dual seat versions are numbered 6xx.

 

[OttoPyr]

Okay, now I'm going to search for photos and a detailed description of the Chinese J-7M. Try to compare J-7M with the F-7P from the first photo

 

[WarKa DaNG]

The Mirages can carry Ra'ad ALCM, which will be used on large formations or on the Radar sites

 

[Ind4Ever]

f-7pgs are same as MIG-21 dude even f-7 has new air frame then MIGs and do you check the record of nig-21 crash rate? our f-7s are main interceptors on all over Pakistan . abut mirages you know some thing what shape they got after rose upgrade? they can fire cruse missiles ans BVRs with air refueling they are working horses bro. you underestimate them because they are old then you have to know f-7s are newer then our our f-16 and mirages 50 which we got from Libya they was brand new. there is much much power in these air crafts. yes they have to be replace but mirage rose and f-7pg will never grab as you think.you know who much they are 400 jets.just think again.

Bhai Jaan by now u must be 5 years older ? So does F 7

View attachment 187576

F35 ?

 

[nomi007]

Bhai Jaan by now u must be 5 years older ? So does F 7


F35 ?

no its a-5

 

[black-hawk_101]

ONLY IF we were in 1990s, when PAF was collecting Mirages from Australia/Libya etc.
There are no more plans to invest in these airframes. They should be replaced with Thunders by now.

Yes you are right. But I think PAF along with other military units should now focus on scraping up their old equipment and gaining money from these scraps and putting it to upgrade their facilities.

 

[nomi007]

A night-strike-Mirage from Zarrar's Sqn. The unit is also equipped with Stand-Off-Weapon and special sensors for night-time- interdiction role.

 

[OttoPyr]

nomi007,
In fact, Pakistan has had to modify all their fighters to one standard of electronics. Otherwise, they can not work together.

Returning to the theme of F-7P. I looked at the photo of the Chinese F-7M and found no differences from the aircraft to the first photo. Anyway external differences. Are you sure that Pakistan bought the first 20 F-7P? I read that the Chinese have provided 20 fighters to Pakistan for test. Because China had not a single instance of modern fighters and could not prove its military power of the F-7M. I want to say that I doubt that China has modified the first 20 fighters. Firstly, I did not find any external signs of modifications and, secondly, if you carefully examine the list of changes that demanded Pakistan, I see signs of these changes only in the second batch of fighters. Pakistan can be bought (or whether they were provided free of charge by China), the first 20 fighters to hold a test of flight characteristics, and then making sure that the aircraft have a flight characteristics are comparable with other aircraft, developed the standard of armament, which was implemented in the second batch of fighters? And the name of the F-7P is only business name.

 

[Paksanity]

nomi007,
In fact, Pakistan has had to modify all their fighters to one standard of electronics. Otherwise, they can not work together.

Returning to the theme of F-7P. I looked at the photo of the Chinese F-7M and found no differences from the aircraft to the first photo. Anyway external differences. Are you sure that Pakistan bought the first 20 F-7P? I read that the Chinese have provided 20 fighters to Pakistan for test. Because China had not a single instance of modern fighters and could not prove its military power of the F-7M. I want to say that I doubt that China has modified the first 20 fighters. Firstly, I did not find any external signs of modifications and, secondly, if you carefully examine the list of changes that demanded Pakistan, I see signs of these changes only in the second batch of fighters. Pakistan can be bought (or whether they were provided free of charge by China), the first 20 fighters to hold a test of flight characteristics, and then making sure that the aircraft have a flight characteristics are comparable with other aircraft, developed the standard of armament, which was implemented in the second batch of fighters? And the name of the F-7P is only business name.

20 Aircraft for testing is too much. PAF would have asked for changes to be made. For example F-7Ps have been photographed with AIM-9 series of US missiles. Always. And never with the one of Chinese origin. This would require changes to be made. It may have been done in Pakistan but still Chinese assistance would be involved. Similarly some avionics have western origin. Like radar from Italy, radio from US and Germany, HUD from UK etc. In short F-7P was specifically customized for Pakistan's requirements. Either in China or in Pakistan. At the time these aircraft were procured, China was benefiting from help of western companies in defense sector.

 

[OttoPyr]

So the changes were, but they were not outwardly visible.

 

[Paksanity]

Outwards changes that I can think of would be US AIM-9 missiles and maybe radio antennas. Mostly the aircraft has been photographed with western armaments of US origin like Mk-8x series bombs etc. Another outwardly visible change, when carrying weapons.

 

[OttoPyr]

AIM-9 missiles do not require additional antennas. These missiles are self-sufficient. But some modification of missiles required additional equipment that could not be located inside the missiles and therefore was placed on a plane. For example the cooling system with argon. More precisely, I would say if I know what kind of modification of the AIM-9 uses the PAF. In any case, the Chinese PL-2, originally intended for the F-7M, was a copy of earlier versions of the American AIM-9. Another thing, if the change affects constructions of locks on the pylons for the suspension of bombs and other weapons. Then locks for the suspension of PL-2 could differ from locks to suspension of AIM-9. Just varied methods of attachment of Chinese and American bombs.

 

[Paksanity]

AIM-9 missiles do not require additional antennas. These missiles are self-sufficient. But some modification of missiles required additional equipment that could not be located inside the missiles and therefore was placed on a plane. For example the cooling system with argon. More precisely, I would say if I know what kind of modification of the AIM-9 uses the PAF. In any case, the Chinese PL-2, originally intended for the F-7M, was a copy of earlier versions of the American AIM-9. Another thing, if the change affects constructions of locks on the pylons for the suspension of bombs and other weapons. Then locks for the suspension of PL-2 could differ from locks to suspension of AIM-9. Just varied methods of attachment of Chinese and American bombs.

sure the changes are minimal and hard to notice. The shape of the launcher pylon may be slightly different. However if your are designing something where aircraft is carrying these missiles or bombs then obviously they will appear different from Chinese missiles and bombs.