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Millions still suffering from Vietnam War's aftermath, 40 years on

Its just a waste to debate about war with a country that can be wiped out in just 2 hours like Indones.:coffee:

it's a waste to argue with a country who had been leveled to the ground and still begging money and investment from her former enemies and their current enemies :china::usflag:
 
My Lai Memorial Statue.

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I dont think Vietnam would concern what the US has done on them like what the Imperial Japanese did on us like these

But China remember these, We never forget!

Japan's Unit 731 core to open to public - Xinhua | English.news.cn

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Japanese medical delegation visit site of Unit 731 in Harbin - Xinhua | English.news.cn

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Thanks Keel. It is indeed very disgusting for us Japanese to see this , a reminder that some radical elements of the Japanese Military participated in these kinds of inhumane experiments. May we all , Japanese and Chinese, never forget.
 
truth must be spoken :coffee:

yes not to mention there is so many Vietnamese who largely ignoring those victims suffering and made support for US to back to Vietnam
This is said by idiot head who think we didn't anything to help our people. :coffee:
 
:bad::bad::bad::cray:

Those images are heartbreaking. And it's very unpleasant to learn that these victims are accorded a low priority by the government, which mis-allocates resources by splurging on the same weaponry that maimed the poor victims depicted.

If a government doesn't care about obtaining redress or apologies for citizens harmed in foreign aggression, but instead takes bribes from the same foreign aggressor, they are effectively saying: "our people's lives are worthless. You can massacre them at will". Is this really the right message to send to the world?
Exactly. The fact they don't demand the US for reparation or an official apology shows they don't really care about these victims. The Vietcong is a shame to the world.
 
Exactly. The fact they don't demand the US for reparation or an official apology shows they don't really care about these victims. The Vietcong is a shame to the world.


Come on man. US doesn't even recognize the Armenian Genocide in an apparent move to prevent irking Turkey, a key NATO ally. You really think the US will open a bag of proverbial 'worms' on Agent Orange issue ? They will work with Hanoi and specifically evade addressing Agent Orange and such human rights violations. Both Vietnam and the US want something from each other; they'll do what it takes to tap into that shared interest. And strategically , covertly ignore issues of discord.
 
Come on man. US doesn't even recognize the Armenian Genocide in an apparent move to prevent irking Turkey, a key NATO ally. You really think the US will open a bag of proverbial 'worms' on Agent Orange issue ? They will work with Hanoi and specifically evade addressing Agent Orange and such human rights violations. Both Vietnam and the US want something from each other; they'll do what it takes to tap into that shared interest. And strategically , covertly ignore issues of discord.
Come on you are comparing apple and orange. The Armenian Genocide has nothing to do with the US. You also are telling the world that a simple apology from the US is going to hurt their feeling? Are you serious? What done is history. Nothing can change that fact. The least the US can do is offer an official apology. The Vietnamese desperately want that. Just ask our local Vietnamese friends in here. LOL
 
Come on you are comparing apple and orange. The Armenian Genocide has nothing to do with the US. You also are telling the world that a simple apology from the US is going to hurt their feeling? Are you serious? What done is history. Nothing can change that fact. The least the US can do is offer an official apology. The Vietnamese desperately want that. Just ask our local Vietnamese friends in here. LOL

Its interrelated in context to American geostrategic interest. Relations with Turkey is essential for American dominance in the Southern Balkans and wider Middle East. America will not recognize Armenian Genocide to prevent irritating Turkey, thus ensuring Ankara remains an ally. The same way as how the United States will work with Vietnam to strengthen the former's presence in the South China Sea ; America will use Vietnam to America's interest, at the same time Vietnam will tap into America's good graces through military sharing intel, joint exercises, who knows maybe even military loans and military sales (at reduced prices; friendship price).

Nothing in this world is perfect. Everyone, every country will take advantage of each other. This is evident in regards to American use of geopolitical clout and engaging in activities that maintains said status quo.
 
Its interrelated in context to American geostrategic interest. Relations with Turkey is essential for American dominance in the Southern Balkans and wider Middle East. America will not recognize Armenian Genocide to prevent irritating Turkey, thus ensuring Ankara remains an ally. The same way as how the United States will work with Vietnam to strengthen the former's presence in the South China Sea ; America will use Vietnam to America's interest, at the same time Vietnam will tap into America's good graces through military sharing intel, joint exercises, who knows maybe even military loans and military sales (at reduced prices; friendship price).

Nothing in this world is perfect. Everyone, every country will take advantage of each other. This is evident in regards to American use of geopolitical clout and engaging in activities that maintains said status quo.
LOL You are not telling anything useful here. The question the world wants to know is why the US don't offer an apology to Vietnam. Any person would be scratching their head right now, especially the US wants to improve relation with Vietnam. They should offer an apology and get it over with. But hey, maybe they don't want to get their feeling hurt by apologizing? LOL
 
LOL You are not telling anything useful here. The question the world wants to know is why the US don't offer an apology to Vietnam. Any person would be scratching their head right now, especially the US wants to improve relation with Vietnam. They should offer an apology and get it over with. But hey, maybe they don't want to get their feeling hurt by apologizing? LOL

Truth will never be easy , but that is nature of geopolitics.
 
Exactly. The fact they don't demand the US for reparation or an official apology shows they don't really care about these victims. The Vietcong is a shame to the world.

US helped KMT, protect Taiwan. What does CPR do ? you begged Nixon to visit China 1972. There is big shame of PRC in this world.
 
US helped KMT, protect Taiwan. What does CPR do ? you begged Nixon to visit China 1972. There is big shame of PRC in this world.
I can sense that your feeling is hurt by my words. It is laughable that you compare two ENTIRELY separate situation. You do realize one of the diplomatic agreement we demand from the US in 1972 is the recognition of "One China" right? LOL
 
I can sense that your feeling is hurt by my words. It is laughable that you compare two ENTIRELY separate situation. You do realize one of the diplomatic agreement we demand from the US in 1972 is the recognition of "One China" right? LOL

China do nothing now, when "one China" and "one taiwan" is still existed in the world, like S and N Korea. Right ?
 
LOL some non-viet members still talking (or trolling) on how Viet people should act.

Let's make this clear, the Vietnamese govt do constantly ask the US to make reparations for the ongoing Agent Orange issue:

While the United States and Vietnam have cooperated on a wide variety of other issues, from environmental conservation to energy to HIV and AIDS, Agent Orange has remained “the burr under the saddle of U.S.-Vietnam relations,” Bailey said. The Vietnamese, he noted, are “reminded of it every day.”

U.S. lawmakers and administration officials have, for years, heard complaints from Vietnamese counterparts about the lingering effects of Agent Orange and about the U.S. responsibility to help address those effects.

“A few years ago, you could not have a meeting with Vietnamese officials without them bringing up Agent Orange, regardless of the subject of the meeting,”
Tim Rieser, a top aide to Leahy on the Senate Appropriations Committee and one of the most steadfast advocates of funding for war-related disabilities programs in Vietnam, told Devex.

The legacy of Agent Orange in Vietnam — and US efforts to make amends | Devex

And the US have (although just recently) responded by sending money and experts to deal with the Agent Orange legacy (but still haven't given an official apology) :

Other areas of cooperation focus on mitigating the dangers posed by unexploded U.S. bombs and Agent Orange, the widely deployed herbicide linked to cancer and birth deformities. Osius said the U.S. has so far spent more than $65 million to cleanup dioxin, a toxic component of Agent Orange, and $80 million to clean up unexploded ordnance.

Vietnam, US test their hard-won friendship - Vietnam at 50 - Stripes

As for why the US still has not given an official apology for dumping so much agent orange on VN, it is still a mystery. Actually I know one thing, from a legal perspective, to issue an official apology is the same as admitting your offence/wrong doings which would set a legal precedent which would allow more people/countries (not just VN, think all the other countries where unconventional weapons has been used) to file a lawsuit against the US for compensations. This is not just to protect the US, but also to protect US companies that were involved.

Now for the members that are trying to troll on the actions of VN with respect to past war issues: Firstly, some of you were wrong to say that Vietnamese people "desperately want" an apology. We let the US know that an apology is owed, but we don't jump up and down demanding an apology like this one cute Indonesian girl taunt us to do. That's because our concept of a proper apology is different: A sincere apology cannot be received through coercion or "demands", it must be entirely from the initiative of the other party.

Secondly, we have this one concept in Viet Nam which might be totally incomprehensible to a Chinese person: forgiveness. Meaning, to let go of the past and move on. For a Chinese or Indonesian, this may sound incomprehensible or dishonorable, but for a lot of Vietnamese people it is normal. Not all Vietnamese accept this concept, but alot of Viets, including myself, accept and practice it. Not sure how the other Viet members here feel about forgiveness.

Lastly, an apology should only come from the offender. I do not believe in the idea of "sins of the father" (or "sins of the countrymen"). It is for this reason that I would never offer an apology to a Cham or family of those Chinese nationals that were killed in the riots, simply because I wasn't involved. Silly to demand an apology from people that wasn't involved or wasn't even born during the US-VN war. Maybe, this concept might also be incomprehensible for Chinese and Indonesian members.

So Viet Nam will never jump up and down to "demand" apologies from anyone. Some may do (probably the ones influenced by Chinese culture). But this does not mean that we forget the past or victims. That's why the Viet PM was not scared to mention about the past war crimes and the govt continue to ask the US to fund money and help the victims.


Museums and monuments to commemorate past atrocities? Yes, plenty. One member has already posted a monument. I will post this museum. Actually, I'll just post a blog article written by one American visitor (notice how he was frustrated by all the focus on American war crimes, and also how he notice real Vietnamese on the streets don't dwell in the past) :

Being the Bad Guy at the War Remnants Museum


Being the Bad Guy at the War Remnants Museum

So even with all the things I think I know about the Vietnam War, I realized that the Vietnamese probably have a very different outlook and attitude on it. For starters I knew that they called it the “American War,” which sounds odd but makes a lot of sense. I wanted to know what the Vietnamese attitude was about this terrible time that entangled both of our countries, so one of our first stops in Ho Chi Minh City was the War Remnants Museum.

It was… an awkward visit, to say the least.

The museum, which costs something like 75 cents, is a gray warehouse of a building, with a courtyard filled with re-appropriated American tanks, helicopters and fighter planes. Inside I walked up to the first exhibit to find this plastered on the wall.

Crucial words from the Declaration of Independence, thoughtfully positioned next to a picture of an American Soldier executing a Viet Cong soldier. Subtly. And a pretty good indicator of what was to come. Image after gory image of dead Vietnamese, dismembered body parts and soldiers terrorizing civilians.

It went on: victims of agent orange, dead babies in jars, simulation tiger cages and more. It was weird. And mortifying. And also kind of infuriating. I have absolutely no doubt that the United States did some really terrible things. It was a terrible and ill-advised war. But this place was just too much. What about all the horrible things that the Viet Cong did? Not even mentioned among the debris. I see pictures of locked up Viet Cong, but where is the exhibit on the infamous Hanoi Hilton? War is hell no doubt but it’s a two sided inferno.

“Even women and babies are targets of US American division mopping up operations.”

Now, the museum is run by the government, so of course it’s sole purpose is to booster the party line. In Vietnam, like everywhere else, history is written by the victors. What I was looking at wasn’t the actual beliefs of the majority of the people in Vietnam- it was purepropaganda. Once I grasped this the entire museum experience became less emotional and more academic.

In my travels I’ve had the opportunity to visit a few different places that have been negatively effects by US actions I reflected on the bombed out buildings of Belgrade and the atomic bomb site in Hiroshima. The latter is probably more comparable to here: severe destruction and civilian casualties during wartime. The Peace Park in Hiroshima is almost the polar opposite of this museum though: it’s a monument to what was lost, a (fair) explanation of what happened and a plea to make sure it never happens again. I think that ultimatly had far more impact on me then the smear-fest in Saigon.

So what’s the difference? Well, the Japanese have had much longer to recover from their wounds. And the Japanese lost the war. America did some really horrible things in both countries, but Japan at least recognizes that we weren’t operating in a void. To do that requires a level of self-criticism that the Vietnamese government is clearly not comfortable with.

The good news is, the War Museum is more of a novelty than anything else. It does not represent the views of most people in Vietnam. Things might change when I go up North, but here in the south people are friendly and open. Based on the people I’ve been lucky enough to meet so far, their opinions on Americans range from indifferent to ecstatic. As one guy told me “That was a long time ago, a lot of bad things happened, but now we must move on.”
 
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