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Military Operation against TTP in N.Waziristan | Updates & Discussions.
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fatman17
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Opinion
Giving in to the enemy
Brian CloughleyMonday, March 10, 2014
PM Nawaz Sharif says he wants "permanent peace" in Pakistan, which is what most sane people wish for. But the only way to permanent peace is to wage – and win – an all-out war on the terrorists who want to destroy the country.
Two recent international news items about terrorism might strike a chord in Pakistan. They concern an amnesty granted to 187 Irish Republican Army (IRA) terrorists by a submissive British government in 1998 and the slaughter two weeks ago of 30 civilians by knife-wielding terrorists in the Chinese city of Kunming.
The British amnesty for extremists was revealed quite by accident when one of them arrived in the UK last month and was arrested on a long-standing charge of killing several people but had to be released because in 1998 someone in high authority in Britain authorised a letter, which he happily brandished, declaring he was not liable to prosecution.
In the 1990s the British government was desperate to stop the vicious violence of the IRA whose members murdered people around the world in the name of ‘freedom’ for their cause of a united Ireland. (To recap on this manifestation of religio-political extremism: the Emerald Isle is divided into the Republic of Ireland in the south, and the ‘six counties’ of Northern Ireland, most of whose citizens wish to remain part of the United Kingdom. The Republican minority in the north, all Catholics, want the mainly Protestant north to join the almost entirely Catholic south.)
The IRA would also kill totally innocent people. In September 1989, for example, they “shot and killed Heidi Hazell, the German wife of a British Army soldier in Dortmund, West Germany.” What gallant fellows. Their bombing of the centre of London in 1992 “killed three people including a 15-year-old girl,” and when they “exploded two bombs in litter bins in Warrington, England” they murdered “Jonathan Ball aged 3 years and mortally wounded Timothy Parry aged 12.” What cowards.
Then back in their own ‘tribal areas’ they exploded a bomb in a shop in Belfast, the capital of Northern Ireland, killing 10 people and injuring fifty. And these are but a few examples out of thousands of terror attacks. The IRA deserves to be prosecuted with all the force of law that can be mustered. And you would think any British government would be just the team to do that, wouldn’t you? ‘Justice above all’, would be the cry. ‘We do not compromise concerning rule of law’ could be expected as a clarion call.
Not a bit of it. The British government was running scared and imagined that the people of Britain were also frightened of a bunch of terrorists who were – if only the government had realised – on the verge of defeat by a brilliantly-run (if decidedly ruthless) intelligence operation that was having a shattering effect on the militants.
Are you getting a picture, here? Are similarities with Pakistan’s circumstances becoming apparent?
Britain’s cave-in to the terrorists, in order to achieve what was called the ‘Good Friday Agreement’ of 1998, ended (well, almost ended) the insurrection, but involved some amazing concessions by the British government, including, as has only just been revealed, quite by chance, an agreement to pardon 187 identified killers who had not yet been brought to justice. The other side obtained enormous concessions. In order to meet the terrorists’ demands the British government went overboard.
The British government released 428 IRA militants from prison in order to get the political supporters of these convicted criminals to agree to stop their associates waging a terrorist campaign. Of these 428 there were 143 murderers serving life sentences. In two years, between 1998 and 2000, all of them were set free – quietly and gradually, of course, in order not to draw attention to the fact that you can murder and get away with it.
Is there a parallel emerging between these awful times and Pakistan’s present circumstances?
These IRA murderers were the worst of the worst. And I declare an interest, because I knew someone who was subjected to the most appalling torment by the IRA before he was killed. His mutilated body has never been found and the murderers refuse to disclose its whereabouts. And this might remind us of recent scenes of beheadings of Pakistan’s soldiers which appeared on the website of the evil Taliban.
Fanatics never compromise. And if you try to reach a political solution with them, you will always lose the moral battle. Certainly, in Northern Ireland the IRA is not exactly in government. They have a political party of puppets who make sure the province is run with IRA approval. It’s the only place in the world apart from fascist Israel in which there are 20 foot-high barriers separating communities. In the twenty-first century in a city in Britain it is necessary to have twenty miles of concrete walls dividing Catholics from Protestants so that they won’t kill each other. This is civilisation?
So then to the slaughter in China’s Kunming city by another bunch of extremists. Just as ruthless because their victims were totally innocent travellers at a railway station. It is thought the militants were connected with the Uighur minority in the Xingjian province who want autonomy from Chinese rule, and if this is so, then heaven help the Uighurs, because the Chinese state will be utterly ruthless in pursuit and eradication of these separatist terrorists. There won’t be any concessions made to evil thugs.
In Pakistan there are lessons to be learned from Ireland and Kunming; and the first is that elected governments should not treat terrorists as equals because terrorists have no right to such favour. They are murderous criminals and cannot be forgiven. The second is that, as in China, there should be pursuit and eradication of those who destroy the lives of ordinary innocent citizens in furtherance of their extremist ambitions.
If Pakistan’s government does not destroy the militants who want to take over the country – well, the country will be taken over. And do you want to live under law as interpreted by a bunch of extremists? The only way to obtain Nawaz Sharif’s ‘permanent peace’ is to wage total war on those who threaten the very existence of the country. It’s time to take the gloves off and destroy those who want to destroy Pakistan. That is the only way to deal with the enemy.
The writer is a South Asian affairsanalyst. Website: Brian Cloughley
Giving in to the enemy
Brian CloughleyMonday, March 10, 2014
Two recent international news items about terrorism might strike a chord in Pakistan. They concern an amnesty granted to 187 Irish Republican Army (IRA) terrorists by a submissive British government in 1998 and the slaughter two weeks ago of 30 civilians by knife-wielding terrorists in the Chinese city of Kunming.
The British amnesty for extremists was revealed quite by accident when one of them arrived in the UK last month and was arrested on a long-standing charge of killing several people but had to be released because in 1998 someone in high authority in Britain authorised a letter, which he happily brandished, declaring he was not liable to prosecution.
In the 1990s the British government was desperate to stop the vicious violence of the IRA whose members murdered people around the world in the name of ‘freedom’ for their cause of a united Ireland. (To recap on this manifestation of religio-political extremism: the Emerald Isle is divided into the Republic of Ireland in the south, and the ‘six counties’ of Northern Ireland, most of whose citizens wish to remain part of the United Kingdom. The Republican minority in the north, all Catholics, want the mainly Protestant north to join the almost entirely Catholic south.)
The IRA would also kill totally innocent people. In September 1989, for example, they “shot and killed Heidi Hazell, the German wife of a British Army soldier in Dortmund, West Germany.” What gallant fellows. Their bombing of the centre of London in 1992 “killed three people including a 15-year-old girl,” and when they “exploded two bombs in litter bins in Warrington, England” they murdered “Jonathan Ball aged 3 years and mortally wounded Timothy Parry aged 12.” What cowards.
Then back in their own ‘tribal areas’ they exploded a bomb in a shop in Belfast, the capital of Northern Ireland, killing 10 people and injuring fifty. And these are but a few examples out of thousands of terror attacks. The IRA deserves to be prosecuted with all the force of law that can be mustered. And you would think any British government would be just the team to do that, wouldn’t you? ‘Justice above all’, would be the cry. ‘We do not compromise concerning rule of law’ could be expected as a clarion call.
Not a bit of it. The British government was running scared and imagined that the people of Britain were also frightened of a bunch of terrorists who were – if only the government had realised – on the verge of defeat by a brilliantly-run (if decidedly ruthless) intelligence operation that was having a shattering effect on the militants.
Are you getting a picture, here? Are similarities with Pakistan’s circumstances becoming apparent?
Britain’s cave-in to the terrorists, in order to achieve what was called the ‘Good Friday Agreement’ of 1998, ended (well, almost ended) the insurrection, but involved some amazing concessions by the British government, including, as has only just been revealed, quite by chance, an agreement to pardon 187 identified killers who had not yet been brought to justice. The other side obtained enormous concessions. In order to meet the terrorists’ demands the British government went overboard.
The British government released 428 IRA militants from prison in order to get the political supporters of these convicted criminals to agree to stop their associates waging a terrorist campaign. Of these 428 there were 143 murderers serving life sentences. In two years, between 1998 and 2000, all of them were set free – quietly and gradually, of course, in order not to draw attention to the fact that you can murder and get away with it.
Is there a parallel emerging between these awful times and Pakistan’s present circumstances?
These IRA murderers were the worst of the worst. And I declare an interest, because I knew someone who was subjected to the most appalling torment by the IRA before he was killed. His mutilated body has never been found and the murderers refuse to disclose its whereabouts. And this might remind us of recent scenes of beheadings of Pakistan’s soldiers which appeared on the website of the evil Taliban.
Fanatics never compromise. And if you try to reach a political solution with them, you will always lose the moral battle. Certainly, in Northern Ireland the IRA is not exactly in government. They have a political party of puppets who make sure the province is run with IRA approval. It’s the only place in the world apart from fascist Israel in which there are 20 foot-high barriers separating communities. In the twenty-first century in a city in Britain it is necessary to have twenty miles of concrete walls dividing Catholics from Protestants so that they won’t kill each other. This is civilisation?
So then to the slaughter in China’s Kunming city by another bunch of extremists. Just as ruthless because their victims were totally innocent travellers at a railway station. It is thought the militants were connected with the Uighur minority in the Xingjian province who want autonomy from Chinese rule, and if this is so, then heaven help the Uighurs, because the Chinese state will be utterly ruthless in pursuit and eradication of these separatist terrorists. There won’t be any concessions made to evil thugs.
In Pakistan there are lessons to be learned from Ireland and Kunming; and the first is that elected governments should not treat terrorists as equals because terrorists have no right to such favour. They are murderous criminals and cannot be forgiven. The second is that, as in China, there should be pursuit and eradication of those who destroy the lives of ordinary innocent citizens in furtherance of their extremist ambitions.
If Pakistan’s government does not destroy the militants who want to take over the country – well, the country will be taken over. And do you want to live under law as interpreted by a bunch of extremists? The only way to obtain Nawaz Sharif’s ‘permanent peace’ is to wage total war on those who threaten the very existence of the country. It’s time to take the gloves off and destroy those who want to destroy Pakistan. That is the only way to deal with the enemy.
The writer is a South Asian affairsanalyst. Website: Brian Cloughley
^Unfortunately, for whatever reasons Nawaz has decided to negotiate with these savages it's going to back fire. Just matter of time before these hounds of hell unleash their fury on this poor country.
Maybe it's his long lost love for these hounds or maybe he's just too scared of them and just wants to complete his turn and pocket as much money as possible and make a run for it. But the nation is gonna end up paying the price for his refusal to bring these savages to justice.
Maybe it's his long lost love for these hounds or maybe he's just too scared of them and just wants to complete his turn and pocket as much money as possible and make a run for it. But the nation is gonna end up paying the price for his refusal to bring these savages to justice.
Samlee
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FunkyGen
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Hey i have two questions....
1-Is thunder being used in the ops against TTP or not, were they used before and how effective have they been???
2-Do the miscreants have the ability to shoot down our recce. drones???
1-Is thunder being used in the ops against TTP or not, were they used before and how effective have they been???
2-Do the miscreants have the ability to shoot down our recce. drones???
Hyperion
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The reason is quite obvious actually. Talibitches are Wahabi / Deobandi. So is he. Same masters, just different get-ups. One is the PM, others are labelled as insurgents. If you analyze their psyche, you'll be wonderfully surprised that they are twins.
FunkyGen
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Nope it's more of a strategic decision, he wants good economy for his personal benefits (which IMP is a good thing as he's bringing in billions). Also a certain country doesn't want. Any ways point is we should maintain spec ops units along with dedicated COIN gear like UCAVs for both tactical (like spy cop M that we have) along with strategic UAVs (like burraq) assets.....
Now can you please answer my questions???
Hyperion
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Dude...... all the fancy talk of SIGNIT / UCAV's are just tools. Nothing more. You want to get rid of the problem? Make 10 person SSG teams (not the loser kind, highly motivated & educated kind) and send them on surgical missions to assassinate the higher ups, in great numbers, and forget worrying about collateral damage. This is the only way.
Problem with Nawazoo is that he can't afford that, in case he might piss off his Arab masters, who'll lose their strategic depth against Iran.
It's a mess. Only way out is as I stated, nothing less will cut it.
Problem with Nawazoo is that he can't afford that, in case he might piss off his Arab masters, who'll lose their strategic depth against Iran.
It's a mess. Only way out is as I stated, nothing less will cut it.
FunkyGen
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If Taliban could be just eliminated by targeting their leaders America could've won the war long ago, so please spare me of the kiddish talk. As far as these high tech assets considered they are a need of the future and must be present at any cost whether there are or there aren't any miscreants. Also we are not just facing the North situation, we are also dealing with the Balochistan insurgency and probably other minor ones too so please make your mindset about the future too.....
As far as strategic depth against Iran is considered.... I have no words..... what do you think they have there "Kuds" force and other bodies for??? they can kick the *** of Arabs any day, any time. BTW i have no problem with Nawaz having Arabs as his friends, at least they are giving money (as long as it ain't going to be used in fighting dirty wars it's fine).
BTW my above question still remains unanswered!
Hyperion
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All their leaders. Including Nawaz and Co. Now do you get my drift? Al-Wahab sympathizers, that may even include the likes of you. All insurgencies can be taken care of, if there's a clear cut resolve.
P.S. You and your kind are so transparent, you can't even hide your ulterior motives in your sentences. So so so so transparent. Of course, anything more would require use of grey matter, which fortunately you haven't been gifted.
Btw, which question?
P.S. You and your kind are so transparent, you can't even hide your ulterior motives in your sentences. So so so so transparent. Of course, anything more would require use of grey matter, which fortunately you haven't been gifted.
Btw, which question?
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FunkyGen
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Yeah sure I'm transparent and whatever....
For my question read post #831
For my question read post #831
Hey dude don't put me with them religious fanatics..... please don't be dumb....
Hyperion
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Kid. I'm not young. If you want to discuss strategies, ask strategic questions, and follow a step-wise pattern of disassembly. There is no one magic bullet to our Talibitches problem. I know, as I have served in armed forces of two countries, and have life long experiences to go with it.
@FunkyGen: Regarding your questions.
1. Not likely. Wasn't being used before at least.
2. No. They aren't capable of shooting anything more that couple hundred feets.
@FunkyGen: Regarding your questions.
1. Not likely. Wasn't being used before at least.
2. No. They aren't capable of shooting anything more that couple hundred feets.
FunkyGen
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Wait.... WHAT!? you judged me and called me transparent plus accused me of being some religious whatever when I didn't even support em' (which btw I find very very offensive).... Here is your proof..
And please, I respect your age and service but stop calling names and judging people, things like "your kind" and blah blah.
And please, I respect your age and service but stop calling names and judging people, things like "your kind" and blah blah.
Hyperion
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Dude, I always do that, to test new recruits. You have passed the test, now I know you are not one of the zealots. Welcome aboard! 
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