Militant Outfits in Punjab have a good number of retired military personnel

[Spring Onion]

When you have an army which is too afraid of few rag tag terrorist .

you dont know anything

 

[third eye]

Indians?

Think again.

Indians are no way your well wisher, Keep this in mind.

No country would like to come to clean the dirty linen of another.

Those who have murkied the waters have to find answers within themselves.

 

[Don Jaguar]

No country would like to come to clean the dirty linen of another.

Those who have murkied the waters have to find answers within themselves.

Frankly......

That was nice to know.

 

[somebozo]

But you can not kill that religious zeal and soft corner for bigotry with armies imported from USA or any other country. At the end of the day, the root of the present mess in Pakistan lies in the radicalization of religion and fixing it will require the balance 99% of moderate Pakistanis to come together and defeat this radicalization in the civil society. War is simply prolonging the inevitable..

To encourage those 99% moderates, we need to wipe out the top 1% corrupt elite - Zardari, kayani, Nawaz, Bhuttos and everyone else.

Indians?

Think again.

Indians are no way your well wisher, Keep this in mind.

It was just a theoretical hyperbole - it cant happen in reality due to number of political issues right now but that does not rule out the possibility. Religious zeal is what stand between out present and a viable future as a state governed by law

you dont know anything

Apparently after meeting a few figures of PA on Hajj, i do know more than average joe.

No country would like to come to clean the dirty linen of another.

Those who have murkied the waters have to find answers within themselves.

You cannot clean without detergent and this case is going to be the same. We need to restructure PA and court marital the upper treacherous brass.
I have no sympathy for a force which strikes peace deals with the terrorist. If pashtuns consider PA an "alien" force and use it an as an excuse to sympathize with foreign ideology inspired terrorists then we have a major problem in our national fabric.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

When you have an army which is too afraid of few rag tag terrorist and beghairt generals who cannot take action despite their men being slaughtered like cow on camera and then the footage aired around the world then in the better interest of common Pakistan citizen - it is only a logical choice to invite assistance from India or USA.

At the end of the day, it is important to get rid of talibaboon terrorist and is PA generals refuse to take action it only affirms cowardice and corruption of military. By refusing to take action in larger interest of protecting Pakistani citizen lives, the army has lost all its legitimacy and has by striking peace deals with the terrorist it has become complicity in enemy activities against the state.

Your ire at the disability to strike down the Talibaboons is understandable and justifiable. But you do'nt need any help from the outside to do so.
The ability is existent already within Pakistan. Just that there has been an insufficient will to act. Most times, any efort has actually ended up being plain 'pussyfooting' and waffling. The reason for that is being cited as a 'fear of blow-back' which is amazing. What fear of a blow-back when the fire is already taken hold all around; just that it abates a bit and then suddenly flames up. Post the GHQ, Mehran and Kamra attacks; how many of the goons behind been positively identified, leave alone being exterminated? The problem seems to be deeper rooted than is acknowledged.
And making treaties/understanding with the terrorists is absolutely unforgiveable. What about the thousands who have perished at the hands of Talibaboons? Negotiating with their killers is unforegiveable.

Finally, it is pointless to abuse the Army. They are not the only stake-holders. Every Citizen of Pakistan is.

 

[third eye]

You cannot clean without detergent and this case is going to be the same. We need to restructure PA and court marital the upper treacherous brass.
I have no sympathy for a force which strikes peace deals with the terrorist. If pashtuns consider PA an "alien" force and use it an as an excuse to sympathize with foreign ideology inspired terrorists then we have a major problem in our national fabric.

Whatever..

The bottom line is that no nation would like to intervene.

Also any Govt who asks for outside intervention in a situation like this will not last a day after that.

 

[deltacamelately]

Whatever operations have been done by PA were largely cosmetic measures and terrorists returned to business as usual in a short period of time but they did serve Kayani the opportunity to have photo-shoots with F16. It would be honest to deduce that PA is not sincere in rooting out a bunch of talibaboons and there is a genuine need of reliving the nation from this menace.

I would rather disagree here. Its not the PA's incompetence as a fighting force against the Pashtun insurgents to mount a successful CI operation, its way more complex than you make out of it. Its also just not religious zeal that stops your Generals from routing these scums. The core of the problem lies in the PA's scheme of things in considering the Haqqani network and other militant outfits to be strategic assets. Whether they indeed are, is a cost-benefit analysis that your military think tanks must do NOW. They have handled these groups successfully in the past decades against both India and AStan. Its now that these militants have turned against their own benefactors and have started tearing the states security apparatus. If the PA feels they can contain the militants without having to annihilate them, for use in future campaigns, they will continue to avoid offering battle to these groups. Otherwise they are more than capable to eliminate them, even if that requires disproportionate force. Case in point, the PA showed no qualms in using arty rounds against some of these groups in the past, something that even the IA hasn't done against the Kashmiri Jihadis. What makes you think PA can not repeat the same again?

Its only a matter a strategic calculation on the part of PA and restrain on the part of the ISAF/NATO that has till date saved your Talibaboons from complete annihilation. Once the velvet gloves are removed, its run time or pillage, whatever these zombies choose.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

I would rather disagree here. Its not the PA's incompetence as a fighting force against the Pashtun insurgents to mount a successful CI operation, its way more complex than you make out of it. Its also just not religious zeal that stops your Generals from routing these scums. The core of the problem lies in the PA's scheme of things in considering the Haqqani network and other militant outfits to be strategic assets. Whether they indeed are, is a cost-benefit analysis that your military think tanks must do NOW. They have handled these groups successfully in the past decades against both India and AStan. Its now that these militants have turned against their own benefactors and have started tearing the states security apparatus. If the PA feels they can contain the militants without having to annihilate them, for use in future campaigns, they will continue to avoid offering battle to these groups. Otherwise they are more than capable to eliminate them, even if that requires disproportionate force. Case in point, the PA showed no qualms in using arty rounds against some of these groups in the past, something that even the IA hasn't done against the Kashmiri Jihadis. What makes you think PA can not repeat the same again?

Its only a matter a strategic calculation on the part of PA and restrain on the part of the ISAF/NATO that has till date saved your Talibaboons from complete annihilation. Once the velvet gloves are removed, its run time or pillage, whatever these zombies choose.

I agree for the most part - the PA is handling these thugs with kid gloves. However, while the military needs to inject some sense into its strategic calculus, it also needs to get its house in order in terms of preventing reverse indoctrination of its rank and file.

 

[surya kiran]

Most of the points sombozo you are bringing up is a function of the PA strategy, not PA capabilities. Whether the strategy is flawed or not is a different discussion.

 

[American Pakistani]

Call army from india?

O bhai dimagh tu theek hai na tumhara?

He is chaos spreader in Pakistan, sometimes he ignite hatred against Muhajirs, sometimes against Army, this is his job. I can only wonder how he had not been noticed by any MOD.

 

[Areesh]

I am from a influential family and do happen to move among a lot retired and active duty generals, kernals and upper brass of military. These people would run at first sign of Indian attack - all their patriotism is hollow and they have no courage to fight. PA literally disowned their dead who fought fanatically in Kargil despite lack of supply lines and a general would would instigate the war only to betray his men.

PA soldiers at large are sincere and patriotic but the top brass is nothing but corrupt. Keeping emotions aside, it would be a much fair deal to invite American and Indian commands to take a stiff action in northern areas and root out terrorist then taking a bet on PA which is betraying all senses of military doctrine by trying to strike peace deals with the very terrorists who are slaughtering PA soldiers like sheep. This in essence is victory for the Taliban and therefore it is highly justified to fear our nukes and the risk of Pakistan becoming hijacked by religious zealots. The rot has begin to take its toll.

Why don't you go and blow yourself in front of some militants outfit's HQ. you look frustrated like a suicide bomber. You will kill dozens of Taliboons and would get rid of your frustration for good. Killing two birds with one stone.

@Topic

Where is the proof to the above mentioned revelations? Or is this just another hearsay type of stuff from the ET?

 

[SBD-3]

A while ago I had started reading up Pakistani columns. But soon after, I had to quit.Pakistani intellectualism is confined (rather enslaved) to just empiricism. All the columns i have read on this recently were merely raising questions or pointers. No body cares to devote some thinking to finding solutions? Even in this column 98% is just based on personal assumptions/suspicions (without any references to back) and not a single strategy is being proposed which the tag line claims.Pakistani intellects are always eager to propose utopian solutions (as did this i.e. ask the army to get rid of these elements by using magic stick) I haven't been able to find a single column which suggests intermediary solutions leading towards long term solution of the problem. For example,
1- As the author claims that these 30000 or so madrissas are producing terrorists and criminals. Would he be kind enough to answer that what is the reason why these madrissas are growing and who is supplying them with students? These madrissas provide their students with free education+food+accomudation. In a country with an extraordinary poverty level (58.7 million out of a total population of 180 million subsist below the poverty line). Where do you expect people to send their children to? a school where they can't afford or to a madrissa which seems more competitive to them?

2- Has anybody investigated into the factors what push the retired soldiers to spend their retired lives on doing private security jobs where they are meagerly paid (6K to 8K a month)? When I still compare Pakistani English media vis-a-vis western (ft,wsj,nyt), it seems as if I am reading crap.
(For example just read a few columns on Tribune after reading columns published in FT and WSJ. You ll feel the difference yourself.

 

[rubyjackass]

@somebozo: Probably you are getting worried for no reason. The jernals and kernels may have their plans after all. I believe they are still finding out people who will be of use later and using the occasional threats of operation to turn as many of the tribal leaders around as possible.

The theory that PA is afraid of blowback is laughable. Who is afraid of blowback when the present situation is such a mess.

 

[somebozo]

He is chaos spreader in Pakistan, sometimes he ignite hatred against Muhajirs, sometimes against Army, this is his job. I can only wonder how he had not been noticed by any MOD.

I just presented an hypothetical scenerio but the country has been in this mess for last 10 years and nothing seems to be solving the continuously detoriating situation. Someone somewhere is responsible for this.

Why don't you go and blow yourself in front of some militants outfit's HQ. you look frustrated like a suicide bomber. You will kill dozens of Taliboons and would get rid of your frustration for good. Killing two birds with one stone.

@Topic

Where is the proof to the above mentioned revelations? Or is this just another hearsay type of stuff from the ET?

No need to blow myself, corrective action should be taken by public institutes.