MiG 35 : Not be underestimated

[BricksAndStones]

Pakistan broke away from India? Apart from drama-esque rhetoric, you're kidding right?


Pakistan is a day older than India, in the modern sense. August 14th, hello?!!


Pakistan never "broke away" from India; it was carved out BY the British, from BRITISH India.


The difference between India-Pakistan's case and Pakistan-Bangladesh's case is that in the latter, a third country (India) engineered the split whereas in the former the mother state (BRITISH India) became two independent daughter states by the decree of the mother state (Mountbatten's BRITISH India). Had it not gone this way, neither Pakistan, nor India would have appeared as they do today- both would have splintered into several sister nations, a-la Pakistan / Bangladesh.

 

[vish]

Pakistan broke away from India? Apart from drama-esque rhetoric, you're kidding right?


Pakistan is a day older than India, in the modern sense. August 14th, hello?!!


Pakistan never "broke away" from India; it was carved out BY the British, from BRITISH India.


The difference between India-Pakistan's case and Pakistan-Bangladesh's case is that in the latter, a third country (India) engineered the split whereas in the former the mother state (BRITISH India) became two independent daughter states by the decree of the mother state (Mountbatten's BRITISH India). Had it not gone this way, neither Pakistan, nor India would have appeared as they do today- both would have splintered into several sister nations, a-la Pakistan / Bangladesh.

Dude, wrong thread?

 

[BricksAndStones]

Dude, wrong thread?

Umm, no, actually.


I was replying to Timmy's comment on this thread [#129, specifically].


Permalink: http://www.defence.pk/forums/60181-post129.html

 

[vish]

Umm, no, actually.


I was replying to Timmy's comment on this thread [#129, specifically].


Permalink: http://www.defence.pk/forums/60181-post129.html

well... next time... do quote him...

 

[Zaheerkhan]

I really hope that this aircraft gets picked by the Indian airforce...I wOULD RATHER WANT TO SEE MIG-35 in Indian colours rather than F-18's...

 

[JK!]

Umm, no, actually.


I was replying to Timmy's comment on this thread

Stick to the MiG 35 topic as opposed to bringing up old arguements and feuds.

Anyways what advantages does this aircraft hold over the proposed western ones.

I'd like to know something other than the relationship with Russia as a reason.

 

[Super Falcon]

I hope you get your wish but IAF wont thinks as you think dude

 

[su-47]

Stick to the MiG 35 topic as opposed to bringing up old arguements and feuds.

Anyways what advantages does this aircraft hold over the proposed western ones.

I'd like to know something other than the relationship with Russia as a reason.

Advantages of MiG-35 to India

1) Cheaper: Its is expensive relative to other russian aircraft, but will be much cheaper than its western counterparts

2) Full ToT: Russians give full ToT. West is often more reluctant

3) Similarity: IAF has operated MiGs for decades, and currently operates MiG-29, on which Mig-35 is based. So logistical problems, need for new support structures etc will be much less with mig-35 than with all other MRCA contestants, except the rafale

Disadvantages:

1) All eggs in one basket: With MKI, MiG-35, Mig-29 and later PAKFA in its inventory in coming years, IAF will almost completely be dependant on the Russians. The Russians will be able to put a lot of pressure on india this way

2) Spares: Russians are known for creating problems with spares. IAF learned this the hard way when Mig-23s were rendered almost inoperable due to lack of spares. Russians have offered to put up a facility in India to provide spares for Mig-35, but doubts still remain.

3) History of Russian aircraft: Russian aircraft generally have been known to have low operation readiness, lower sortie rates per day and less reliability than western birds. This was highlited in Kargil when Mirage 2000s had to do the job of bombing, which the designated ground attack aircraft, the Mig-27, couldnt do.

4) Cost hikes: The recent cost hikes imposed on IN for Gorshkov will surely create doubts in the mind of IAF top brass

5) Russia not inducting MiG-35: MiG-35 wont be inducted in the Russian airforce. as such, Russians have no real incentive to provide upgrades for it, or improve on the design.

6) Technology: MiG-35 doesnt offer any new technology to India. India already operates MKI. The Zhuk-ME AESA shown off during Bangalore airshow isnt ready yet, and even if it was, India can get it when IAF gets PAKFA.

Altogether, MiG-35 doesnt look very good. but since Russia has a lot of influence in the MoD, MiG-35 remins a very strong contender.

 

[gromell]

I think Joey is right. For the role that the Indians want to fit in their 126 aircrafts, the best option is to go with Mig-35(i just love these new babies or if not Mig-35 then Rafale.

 

[saiko]

We gotta ask wether this is actually viable in ACM.....maybe someone should ask MURADk wether it is actually of any use. Or is it just a air show manoevere....

i would think if you have to turn completely around to fire a missile at someone they've already fired one at you.

i think the Israeli Python V can be fired backwards with lock after launch, so that would probably be more practical.

 

[SSGPA1]

USA and EU have been supporting India so that they can sell their equipment.

It will be a miracle that India willl give 126 MRCA order to Russia.

This MRCA deal is only going to benefit USA and EU.

 

[Hellfire]

USA and EU have been supporting India so that they can sell their equipment.

It will be a miracle that India willl give 126 MRCA order to Russia.

This MRCA deal is only going to benefit USA and EU.

i totally agree with your assessment .... but it wont be US(I shall be mightily surprised if they do win the contract) but in fact French with their Rafael as the biggest clincher is

1. A dedicated line for India (IAF plans an add on order of 60-80 more ACs) is being offered. (Similar to Mirage-2000 line offer before it was closed)

2. The complete technology for AESA Radars is being offered with source code too, an offer which is too sweet as that enables India to build an own AESA Radar for Tejas LCA as also modify the mission parameters for the Rafaels which shall be inducted (if so is the case)

3. Also the US and India differ over EULA especially the on-site verification clause which is a no-go for IAF for its frontline strike ACs atleast .....same as in P-8Is for IN

 

[saiko]

I think the Russians will win. The terms of the MRCA are ridiculous - last I read India wants 50% industrial offset which most competitors simply can not do - mainly because their domestic defence industry is in desperate need of tech transfers after one debacle after another.

The French might be desperate enough for sales to sell India the Rafale, but India will probably regret it later when France nickel and dimes them for every penny they can.

 

[Contrarian]

I think its most likely that Russians will not win. Not by a long shot. Just too many factors against the MiG 35, and not the least being MoD and the IN being pis$ed over the Gorshkov issue.

 

[sancho]

I think its most likely that Russians will not win. Not by a long shot. Just too many factors against the MiG 35, and not the least being MoD and the IN being pis over the Gorshkov issue.

That's it! With upg Mig 27 & 29, Su 30 Mki, coming Pak Fa we have enough fighters to rely on Russia. MRCA must be some western that makes IAF less reliable on one partner and gives us more new stuff, AESA radar, SC engines, new weapons, or EWS like Spectra.
Mig 35 might be a good aircraft, but it gives us only AESA radar as a new feature, we already have Russian weapons and TVC so that can't be the best way to go.