MiG 35 : Not be underestimated

[vips]

Dear,

Why you are talking about the possibility that mig-35 will get this or get that in future.. as of current situation F-18 is far superior than current mig-35 ..

Day of dogfights are over now.. even our mig-21 posses BVR missiles. So don't say that F-18 is uselss. F-18 will never have problem with dogfight as it will win it's battle over BVR missiles and AESA.. So no need to compare these aircrafts...

Hey kasim, I think you are right about BJP with the security decisions and problems.. It is possible that people will vote BJP ...

Man.. it was BJP who increased the defence budget and signed so much defence deals..

 

[vnomad]

vnomad, if we do get the MiG 35, then it will be fitted with the Israeli AESA, which is better than the one on the F-18 E/F. The best AESA US has is put in JSF, etc. And the Elta 2052, is comparable to them.

Who declared it as best? The AN/APG-79 is a fantastic radar. The USN is going to fly the Super-hornet for the next fifteen to twenty years.

So there goes one MAJOR advantage of the F-18. Next as regards to BVR engagements, we will have an AESA on MiG 35, we will have Meteor most probably, or else even Russia is developing its own ramjet BVRAAM. So though it will still be less, if we get meteor, then we are better off.

The Meteor will most probably be modified to be carried on the F-18E/F too. The USN has made statements suggesting it.

but no US plane can be fitted with Israeli avionics, summat i read, its happened recently, not like the old F-16I's.

US avionics are as good as any in the world except perhaps for those on the Eurofighter.

As you know MiG 35 also has a low RCS, though not comparable to F-18, but low still. And Russia has also developed its own anti radar coating, which reduces RCS further still. And the 3d TVC, allows MiG 35 to evade missiles and bullets, etc much much much more easily.

No paint will allow the MiG-35 to reduce its RCS to Shornet level. The Shornet was designed to have a low RCS unlike the MiG-35 which appears to be designed for hyper-agility. The newer generation of FRAAMs will beat most aircrafts.

It is simply weird for the IAF to buy F-18, buying it fo the navy makes sense as it is a good a2g plane, it sucks big time in a2a. Only the aewsa and bvraam's of US save it. It would be pathetic in dog fights or evasive manouvers.

In A2G MiG-35 cannot be compared with the F-18E/F which comes with the best US munitions available. At A2A, I'd put my money on the F-18. Both aircraft will probably have comparable radar ranges, but a much lower RCS on the F-18 gives it a significant advantage. The best part about the F-18E/F is that the USN uses it. The will be no dearth of upgrades for it.

In the India Pak context, there are still gonna be LOADS of dogfights, and very less BVR engagements compared to dogfights.

Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Neo]

In the India Pak context, there are still gonna be LOADS of dogfights, and very less BVR engagements compared to dogfights. So we would be foolish to get the F-18 for IAF, and very very wise to get F-18 for the Navy.

Huh?
Why would you go dogfighting in a netcentric warfare with BVR capability.
Please share your pov.

 

[Contrarian]

i mean that there are still going to be many dog fights in the Indo-Pak scenario.

MiG 35MKI'zed will beat the F-18 IMO. It too will have the best BVR capability matching the Shornet. So im saying that getting MiG35 for the IAF would be better. And buying a smaller amount of F-18's for the Navy will be a very snart choice because of the US a2g munitions.

IMO, the F-18 is faar better in a2g role and MiG 45MKI'zed would be better in the a2a role. Remember, this is a modded MiG35, with all the capabilites from different nations, not the normal MiG 35 that is only 'athletic'.

 

[vnomad]

MiG 45MKI'zed would be better in the a2a role. Remember, this is a modded MiG35, with all the capabilites from different nations

In A2A today BVR counts not WVR. In BVR three things matter - radar, munitions and RCS. If we assume that the radar is equivalent, the Shornet wins on both counts. And wins significantly.

 

[Contrarian]

if we assume radar, most likely MiG MKI will use elta 2052 aesa radar

rcs will not be as good, but it is still pretty low and will be further reduced.
munitions, we will have python and Russian ramjet BVRAAM, or maybe Meteor, so not really much of a difference!

 

[vnomad]

rcs will not be as good, but it is still pretty low and will be further reduced.

No amount of radar coatings can substitute a stealthy design. The RCS of the MiG-35 will be much higher than the Shornet.

munitions, we will have python and Russian ramjet BVRAAM, or maybe Meteor, so not really much of a difference!

Actually we have neither. We will have them somewhere in the near future. No point making them a factor now itself. The Shornet meanwhile comes with Aim-120C7 or Aim-120D both superior to the R-77.

 

[Contrarian]

you know i dont think there is any point discussing these things.

We will only know what happens when the trials are going on or the govt makes it decision.

 

[Iceman2]

u ppl don't have the birds and u r speculating as if u had them.
i give u a wise sugesstion it's an old adage that don't count your chickens until they hatch. and also don't count on americans that it will happen wen their interest ends they give bamboo.

 

[vnomad]

u ppl don't have the birds and u r speculating as if u had them.

Need I remind you of the speculation I've seen invoving the JF-17 and J-10. Neither one is serving in the PAF. Same goes for the Erieye and the F-16C/D that Pakistan will be getting.

The IAF will be getting one of the birds - MiG 35, F-18E/F - or maybe both. Capabilities of the Shornet aren't speculation. They are available in the public domain. Same goes for the MiG-35. So what's the harm in discussing it.

 

[Neo]

Need I remind you of the speculation I've seen invoving the JF-17 and J-10. Neither one is serving in the PAF. Same goes for the Erieye and the F-16C/D that Pakistan will be getting.

The IAF will be getting one of the birds - MiG 35, F-18E/F - or maybe both. Capabilities of the Shornet aren't speculation. They are available in the public domain. Same goes for the MiG-35. So what's the harm in discussing it.

Only difference being that JF-17, J-10, F-16C/D and Erieye are all ordered, Mig-35 ans F-18E/F are not.

 

[Neo]

you know i dont think there is any point discussing these things.

We will only know what happens when the trials are going on or the govt makes it decision.

Agreed! :thumbsup:

 

[vnomad]

Only difference being that JF-17, J-10, F-16C/D and Erieye are all ordered, Mig-35 ans F-18E/F are not.

You really think that there is a possibility of neither being procured? One of them(if not both) will be procured. This is a fact and not speculation. I didn't know that the J-10 had been ordered. I know that PAF officials have confirmed that it is to be procured but I though nothing has been signed as yet. When do deliveries of the J-10 begin?

 

[Neo]

You really think that there is a possibility of neither being procured? One of them(if not both) will be procured. This is a fact and not speculation. I didn't know that the J-10 had been ordered. I know that PAF officials have confirmed that it is to be procured but I though nothing has been signed as yet. When do deliveries of the J-10 begin?

MRCA deal has been in the pipeline for some 6 years or so, I'm not sure when it will be materialised.
But if the rumors that Super Hornet is somehow linked to civil nuclear deal are correct, a deal should be signed early next year as the nuclear deal is approved now.

Tanveer Mahmood indeed mentioned purchase of J-10 with possible deliveries starting from 2011.
Chinese media however hasn't confirmed the deal yet.

 

[vnomad]

Tanveer Mahmood indeed mentioned purchase of J-10 with possible deliveries starting from 2011.
Chinese media however hasn't confirmed the deal yet.

So nothing is been signed yet.