MiG 35 : Not be underestimated

[Adux]

Interceptor,

Transfer of Technology is a must in Indian Deals as well as 30% offsets, therefore if the European Consortium doesnt agree to it, then India wouldnt buy it, for the MMRCA this is already announced therefore Typhoon wouldnt participate if they cant meet that conditionality

 

[Interceptor]

That would be some achievement from Indian delegations. Let see what happens.

 

[Contrarian]

There is no 'lets see what happens'. Its done. Typhoon is offered. 30% offset in Indian industry, manufacturing done in India. Its India's choice wheter she buys the Typhoon or not. Which news in this world are u following? This is open information.

Jesus christ, google and then talk.

 

[Interceptor]

There is no 'lets see what happens'. Its done. Typhoon is offered. 30% offset in Indian industry, manufacturing done in India. Its India's choice wheter she buys the Typhoon or not. Which news in this world are u following? This is open information.

Jesus christ, google and then talk.

Arent you Hindu where did "Jesus." Any how its speculation India will get them not produce them whats the point of selling them then.

 

[Adux]

Arent you Hindu where did "Jesus." Any how its speculation India will get them not produce them whats the point of selling them then.

Dude I say Inshallah, Jesus Christ and Ente krishna...so!!!!!

They will buy some copies of the shelf, others will be made in India, for that a Royality will have to be paid by India to the company as well as for the TOT. Its not as if you are buying from a super market .

 

[joey]

Do I need to start over again

Mig 35 isnt at all a bad bird, if you put price performance ratio as good as Typhoon IMHO.

Typhoon is poorly developed, no TRANCE 3 AESA till 2015, with Italy and UK funding JSF it wont reach nowhere before 2015.

Mig 35 with true solid state SPJ jammer from Italy coupled with Skyguard or Lobhushka type system with Elta 2052 and array of weapons, Indian datalinks, mission computers, composites etc, is the best bet.

Rafale is a nice bird as well, but again underdeveloped , pricey and doesnt offers TOO HUGE difference over the upgraded Mirage 20000-5 with many things from Rafale included.

Super Hornet block 2 is simply kickass, but Block 2 isnt yet developed by boeing and it costs atleast over 140 mn dollars (it costed 142 mn dollars for the F18e/F for aussie deal)

 

[joey]

Your too fictional, the Eurofighter is not gona get built in India EVER. You can buy them but I doubt they wil everl let India build them.

"BTW this is an eurpean consortium

Thaaaaaaaaa, I live in Europe wouldn't I know that.

http://www.eurofighter.com/documents/general/EFReview02screen.pdf

Check page 5 of this PDF for,

*********

PK Mehra, Air Marshal Indian Air Force

As Eurofighter Typhoon is officially registered in the procurement competition in India, Mr Mehra’s visit to ILA gave Industry a chance to promote the aircraft direct to the end-user. Mat Molineaux of the Royal Air
Force, guided Air Marshal Mehra through a simulated mission scenario, demonstrating the key discriminators that have made Eurofighter Typhoon the best-selling next generation combat aircraft.

also,

AW&ST had reported that among the Euro-consortium, they were looking to offer India the joint production of the Typhoon as the fifth partner along with ToT. there was reportedly competition between UK and Germany about which country should get to lead the bid for the MRCA



********************

New defence procurement policy and TOT,

http://mod.nic.in/dpm/welcome.html

From Page 54

17. Transfer of Technology (TOT)(If applicable). The Govt of India, Ministry of Defence is desirous of license production of (generic name of equipment) under TOT. Aspects of TOT which are to be fulfilled by the vendor are given at Appendix ‘L’. Govt reserves the right to negotiate TOT terms subsequently but the availability of TOT would be a pre-condition for any further procurements. If negotiations for TOT are not held as a part of the negotiations for equipment, then subsequent and separate TOT negotiations would continue from the stage where the equipment has been selected.

Note:-
(The RFP in such cases would spell out the requirements of TOT depending upon the depth of the technology which is required, and whose range could cover technology for repair and overhaul; production from CKD/SKD kits and production from raw material and components level. Aspects which are to be included in the RFP in case production from CKD/SKD/IM kits are given at Appendix ‘L’ to Schedule I. Care should be taken to spell out the selection criteria clearly. The nominated Production Agency (PA) for the receipt of technology will be closely associated in the preparation of RFP).

Page 75-76 of the PDF.

Full TOT for the following systems for overhaul and repair is mandatory:
(i) Air Frame including metallic and composite structures,
empennage,
(ii) Canopy, Radome, Special process, Casting & Forgings
(iii) Flight Control Systems including FBW hardware and software
(iv) Landing Gear system including all castings and forgings
(v) Electrical and Avionics systems including Cockpit display systems
(vi) Instruments, Communication and Navigation equipment, Power
generation and distribution systems.
(vii) Power Plant System including FADEC, Engine accessories,
Turbine, NGV and compressor blades
(viii) Hydraulic System including pumps, servo actuators along with its
spool & sleeve
(ix) Wheels and brakes system
(x) Fuel System including in flight refuelling
(xi) Environment system including OBOX, Pneumatic system
(xii) Ejection Seat
(xiii) Weapon Systems Integration, hardware and software.

......................................

(c) The TOT shall be for “D” level maintenance to cover Airframe, Engines,
Avionics and other aggregates. . It shall be comprehensive and shall cover all aspects of maintenance up to the lowest level which will enable the Maintenance Agency to, repair, overhaul, support and maintain the license product. TOT shall include the details that are needed to give disposition during the maintenance on deviation/ concession; modify/ upgrade the licence product and substitute parts and systems of the licence product as required by the certifying agency and the maintenance agency.

From page 76-77

(a) The TOT Documentation to be provided by the OEM shall be in English
language in Electronic and hardcopy formats, and include documentation under the following heads:-


(i) “D” level Maintenance documentation in ATA100/ATA iSpec
2200.
(ii) Engineering documentation including special process.
(iii) Software documentation including source code, build
environment and utilities.
(iv) Details of Special tools and Test equipments, Jigs & Fixtures.
(v) OEM’s Standard Technical Manuals.
(vi) Illustrated parts catalogue with price list.
(vii) Source identification for BOIs and subcontracted items; standard
parts consumables etc.
(viii) Mandatory spares replacement lists and price catalogue for O,I,
and D level maintenances.

Phew ..om shanti shanti shanti..

 

[Adux]

Joey,

The Aussie Deal included spares, training, infrastructure, ammunitions etc. Please check your facts again on this.
Tranche 3 is under-development, Rafale is fully developed.

 

[Contrarian]

No its not Adux. They dont have an AESA yet. Because Rafale was not getting any export orders, French govt decided to go ahead in making the AESA-rbe2 i believe. it will take time before the aesa gets integrated.

The same is for Typhoon. Tranche 3 is under development.

Aussie deal did include spares, training infrastructure, etc, however the thing to keep in mind is, that there is commonality between F/A-18A/B/C/D and E/F versions. Yes, i know its a separate plane, but there are many things common as well. So the aussies had an advantage there, this is one of the reasons Australian govt selected the Shornet in the first place.

 

[Interceptor]

I was told it will be completly produced in India it says,

"(c) The TOT shall be for “D” level maintenance to cover Airframe, Engines,
Avionics and other aggregates. . It shall be comprehensive and shall cover all aspects of maintenance up to the lowest level which will enable the Maintenance Agency to, repair, overhaul, support and maintain the license product. TOT shall include the details that are needed to give disposition during the maintenance on deviation/ concession; modify/ upgrade the licence product and substitute parts and systems of the licence product as required by the certifying agency and the maintenance agency."

So therefore the Eurofighter will be built in Europe and then the maintance factory will be built in India to support it in the future.

 

[Contrarian]

What part of 'India might become the fifth nation partner' did you not get?
That is the MINIMUM requirement for any plane that we buy. However, if we pay more we get more.

There is no limitation that India cannot join, or this or that.

 

[Interceptor]

You mean bribe to get more. Oke whatever.

 

[Contrarian]

Huh? How is this bribing? Man interceptor what is wrong with you!!?!?!?!

This is a BASIC COMMERCIAL TRNASACTION. Get it through this last time. EUFT consortium has offered India to be 5th member partner. There is a MINIMUM ToT level and 30% offset level which EVERY company must comply with if it participates in a tender. Every company is free to offer much more, as has been done by MiG, EUFT, SAAB ,LM, Boeing(only the AESA tech wont be ToT'ed in the last two cases).The damn plane would be made in India.

India is under NO LIMITATIONS whatsoever from any country. We can buy whatever we damn well please and most of it with ToT.

 

[Adux]

F/a-18 A/B/C/D are not at all common other than the similar way it looks,

F/A-18 E/F is different beast altogether. The Aussie Deal has a lot of spares, arms involved in it.

The only thing that is not integrated to the Rafale right now is the RDY-2, as well as its higher power engines from Snecma.

Tranche 3 is well under-way, there will 642 Euro-Fighters in the world by 2018, by the present order of customers.

 

[Adux]

Malay,

he is a kid, and he is not getting the true meaning of TOT and how money is paid for TOT. So dis-engage.