MiG-29 production takes off in Russia, as Indian carrier trials near end

[SQ8]

I was for IN taking over shorebased maritime attack roles in the past too, but with IAFs modernisations and the increased number of bases in the south and along the coast that are coming, it hardly make sense anymore to be dependent on a few IN fighters.
However, I would integrate them into the maritime attack as well as air defence policies of IAF. If they can protect a CBG against other fighters, why not IN bases or the airspace around us too?

In that case, would the IAF be okay with being given ATO's by the IN?
After all, unless an actual modern warfare doctrine of "local" command be given to the Indian Military and actual IBG's be created whereby the "local" commander decides which assets go where.. such a policy would be difficult to implement.
Bureaucratic red tape may reduce the response times of an IN support request which would have to go through the IN Liason to the IAF HQ then approved from there to the IAF assets.

For eg.. USAF B-52's are equipped with AGM-84s and are tasked directly to the NAVAL COMFOR for that region.
They fly and land at his command and virtually control thousands of miles of sea space.
So the IAF Commander will have to swallow his pride and let a Naval Cmdr designate targets and ATO's for his Jaguars or MKI's etc.

 

[DARKY]

We are talking about air defence and maritime attack against enemy fighters and vessels, in the first MPAs like the Tu 142 or P8 have no value and even in the latter they would be at higher risk of beeing intercepted than an MKI with Brahmos, or an Rafale with Scalp.

Stand off weapons and long range patrols... I doubt weather any of the rival Navies present in the IOR have the capability to threaten long range patrols by Tu-142.... a Single Tu-142 would carry more Brahmos than 4-6 Su30MKI combined... take two Tu-142's fire power into account for the whole surface fleet of PN for example.

 

[sancho]

In that case, would the IAF be okay with being given ATO's by the IN?
After all, unless an actual modern warfare doctrine of "local" command be given to the Indian Military and actual IBG's be created whereby the "local" commander decides which assets go where.. such a policy would be difficult to implement.
Bureaucratic red tape may reduce the response times of an IN support request which would have to go through the IN Liason to the IAF HQ then approved from there to the IAF assets.

For eg.. USAF B-52's are equipped with AGM-84s and are tasked directly to the NAVAL COMFOR for that region.
They fly and land at his command and virtually control thousands of miles of sea space.
So the IAF Commander will have to swallow his pride and let a Naval Cmdr designate targets and ATO's for his Jaguars or MKI's etc.

Why not, they did the same for years with their helicopters too, that were operated by IAF but comanded by IA. If Indian navy gets their won shore based AWACS, IAF fighters in maritime patrole roles will be linked to them as well, not to IAF once. So of course it makes sense that IN commands these assets if needed, but to with their limited fighters and bases, they can't provide sufficient security to such a large costline. IAF has some obvious advantage in this case, so unless IN starts building more airbases just for the costal air and sea defence, I don't see why IAF should give away the role now.

Stand off weapons and long range patrols... I doubt weather any of the rival Navies present in the IOR have the capability to threaten long range patrols by Tu-142.... a Single Tu-142 would carry more Brahmos than 4-6 Su30MKI combined... take two Tu-142's fire power into account for the whole surface fleet of PN for example.

The Tu 142s won't get Brahmos and will be replaced by P8s anyway and as I said, it will be helpless against any enemy fighter too. Lets say the task is to attack PNs naval bases, the bigger MPAs will be detected from long distances and it's not like there wouldn't be air defence fighters too right? We can turn around your example as well, what is easier to take out, a single Tu 142 with numerous missiles, or a bunch of dedicated fighters with self defence capability and the same missiles?

Taking on a PLAN CBG is even more difficult and in both examples, smaller fighters with long range weapons are the first choice! MPAs will mainly be used in the ASW role, just like they will be a good asset in the maritime patrol role for anti piracy.

 

[DARKY]

The Tu 142s won't get Brahmos and will be replaced by P8s anyway and as I said, it will be helpless against any enemy fighter too. Lets say the task is to attack PNs naval bases, the bigger MPAs will be detected from long distances and it's not like there wouldn't be air defence fighters too right? We can turn around your example as well, what is easier to take out, a single Tu 142 with numerous missiles, or a bunch of dedicated fighters with self defence capability and the same missiles?

Taking on a PLAN CBG is even more difficult and in both examples, smaller fighters with long range weapons are the first choice! MPAs will mainly be used in the ASW role, just like they will be a good asset in the maritime patrol role for anti piracy.

Are you sure about that.

The service life of Tu-142 has been increased for another 16 years after the upgrade... which is pointless If we consider them being replaced By P-8I.

Since the Russians have been using their Naval Tu-160 with as many as 8 Kh-101 missiles which has similar weigh as compared with air launched Barhmos.

Not using it on them as a cost effective measure would be a waste.

They can use Naval Mig29K as escorts while on a bombing mission.... Besides that 300km is a good stand off range... they can launch and turn around for safety in the CBG/DDG envelop of Indian Navy.

The problem with small Frigates is that they don't have the ability to detect beyond the horizon targets.. which limits their strike range to 200km maximum for a surface target.

May be In future Naval Tu-142 also serve as the test bed for Naval Nirbhays... and probably use them as stand off Land attack missile.

PLAN CBG is not supposed to enter the IOR for regular Duty for along time to come.... Varyag is just a training ship.

A Tu-95 armed with LRCM(3000km) is a very potent threat for even USN CBG... If use appropriately in a saturated attack.

 

[sancho]

The service life of Tu-142 has been increased for another 16 years after the upgrade... which is pointless If we consider them being replaced By P-8I.

Is it possible that you are confusing the Tu 142s with the IL38s? They were recently upgraded (not for 16 years but) with new techs and life extention. The Bears however will be replaced by P8I for sure!

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Hehe, that's a landbased SMT not a K.




It was nothing but a speculation, not a single hint about that from any official source.
The rest will go to Russian navy, they have ordered 24 as well, which will replace Su33s from their carrier. We need the additional once only, when IAC1 is available, that's why the Russian can get their fighters earlier.



Mig 35 = Mig 29K + Zhuk AESA, TVC, 2 x more hardpoints

That's it basically and why INs Migs will be pretty much at the same level with the next upgrade.

Congrats for promotion Sancho. Can you dig a bit more about "Many countries, who initially had declared a fast-track transition to Western weaponry, after complex analysis have corrected their approaches."

 

[DARKY]

Is it possible that you are confusing the Tu 142s with the IL38s? They were recently upgraded (not for 16 years but) with new techs and life extention. The Bears however will be replaced by P8I for sure!

The discussions also included plans for proceeding ahead with the upgrading of the mission management system and mission sensors of the IN’s existing eight Tu-142ME LRMR/ASW aircraft by installing on each of them the Novella (Sea Dragon) suite, developed by St Petersburg-based Leninets Holding Company and already operational on board the IN’s five existing IL-38SD MRMR/ASW aircraft. Once completed, the upgraded Tu-142MEs, each armed with torpedoes as well as up to four Novator 3M54E Klub supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles, are expected to remain in service until 2024.

Russia-India Military Industrial Cooperation Set To Increase In Scope & Size

In 1986 eight ASW aircrafts Tu-142MK were delivered to India under nomenclature of Tu-142ME which were built by Taganrog Aircraft Factory. Those planes were equipped with Korshun-K search-and-track ASW system which included magnetometer MMS-106 Ladoga and hydrology reconnaissance equipment Nerchinsk. All of those aircrafts are in need of capital repairs and to be upgraded with new onboard equipment, modernized jet-prop engines, and new weapons. According to initial plan, all 8 planes were supposed to pass modernization within 6 years and be ready in 2010-2011. After capital repairs the service life of each aircraft becomes 16 years longer.

http://rusnavy.com/news/othernavies/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=10007

The Upgrades seems to be good enough to see them through even half of its claimed 16 years life extension.

 

[DARKY]

Is it possible that you are confusing the Tu 142s with the IL38s? They were recently upgraded (not for 16 years but) with new techs and life extention. The Bears however will be replaced by P8I for sure!

The discussions also included plans for proceeding ahead with the upgrading of the mission management system and mission sensors of the IN’s existing eight Tu-142ME LRMR/ASW aircraft by installing on each of them the Novella (Sea Dragon) suite, developed by St Petersburg-based Leninets Holding Company and already operational on board the IN’s five existing IL-38SD MRMR/ASW aircraft. Once completed, the upgraded Tu-142MEs, each armed with torpedoes as well as up to four Novator 3M54E Klub supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles, are expected to remain in service until 2024.

Russia-India Military Industrial Cooperation Set To Increase In Scope & Size

In 1986 eight ASW aircrafts Tu-142MK were delivered to India under nomenclature of Tu-142ME which were built by Taganrog Aircraft Factory. Those planes were equipped with Korshun-K search-and-track ASW system which included magnetometer MMS-106 Ladoga and hydrology reconnaissance equipment Nerchinsk. All of those aircrafts are in need of capital repairs and to be upgraded with new onboard equipment, modernized jet-prop engines, and new weapons. According to initial plan, all 8 planes were supposed to pass modernization within 6 years and be ready in 2010-2011. After capital repairs the service life of each aircraft becomes 16 years longer.

http://rusnavy.com/news/othernavies/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=10007

The Upgrades seems to be good enough to see them through even half of its claimed 16 years life extension.

 

[Gessler]

Dear god, the Tu-142 is excellent. I don't want IN to give it up so soon. waaahh