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MiG-21 Bison - The Underdog

Then maybe its time to let LCA go, Because the way the IAF is behaving with the LCA is akin to a prolonged engagement in marriage. What barriers are holding back the LCA? Is it politics? Is the LCA itself a crappy plane? I dont think kickbacks can be hidden that easily anymore from the Indian Media, So why such a large MRCA purchase? Is the IAF looking to surpass the 1000+ combat aircraft mark?
All these questions must be evaluated before blaming people in the procurement process.

An ex neighbor of mine in san antonio is in the USAF, last I spoke to him on email about a year ago I asked him about cope India. It wasn't the Su-30 that gave the Americans(who were handicapped) problems, it was the Bison. And that has been corroborated by the red flag video as well.
 
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Then maybe its time to let LCA go, Because the way the IAF is behaving with the LCA is akin to a prolonged engagement in marriage. What barriers are holding back the LCA? Is it politics? Is the LCA itself a crappy plane? I dont think kickbacks can be hidden that easily anymore from the Indian Media, So why such a large MRCA purchase? Is the IAF looking to surpass the 1000+ combat aircraft mark?
All these questions must be evaluated before blaming people in the procurement process.

An ex neighbor of mine in san antonio is in the USAF, last I spoke to him on email about a year ago I asked him about cope India. It wasn't the Su-30 that gave the Americans(who were handicapped) problems, it was the Bison. And that has been corroborated by the red flag video as well.

the americans said the opposite of what your saying:what:
 
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jf 17 is to replace ageing fleet of f7 mirage q 5 fanta ... and yes beacuse of that we built it in quanty but we dont spare quality.... :pakistan:

Quality? are u joking.How about the patton tanks which were blown up against our inferior shermans, how about the sabres which were blown up by our gnats and mig21.At that time u really had some qualitative edge and look what happened.Today we have the quality and quantity edge.Be realistic buddy
 
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Desiman / others, I must admit, I know little about Bison. I have a couple of questions.

With the new Phalcons and the hype about network centric warfare, what is the role the Bisons can play ? The upgrade was much needed but it will be interesting to know the usefulness of Migs in a battle field with F16s old and new. It is great to know that the radar signature has diminished by a factor of 10/15. Have we made any changes to the radar system inside Migs. What is the bison radar capability?

a link will be useful...
 
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Desiman / others, I must admit, I know little about Bison. I have a couple of questions.

With the new Phalcons and the hype about network centric warfare, what is the role the Bisons can play ? The upgrade was much needed but it will be interesting to know the usefulness of Migs in a battle field with F16s old and new. It is great to know that the radar signature has diminished by a factor of 10/15. Have we made any changes to the radar system inside Migs. What is the bison radar capability?

a link will be useful...

Sorry buddy cant say more but google for 2-3 hours and read between lines .U will get ur answer.
 
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yes sir science you the link let me see and let it be neutral .... beacuse from what i know india has 1024 air crashes/loses..... while pakistan only has 363 ... this is come from offical indian sourses:pakistan:

ok.....i dont know if this is real....but say it is!!!!------how many aircrafts does pakistan have?????----just by looking at numbers i would say that you didnt have enough aircrafts to crash!!!while we did have enough to take them on repeated sorties
 
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Then maybe its time to let LCA go, Because the way the IAF is behaving with the LCA is akin to a prolonged engagement in marriage. What barriers are holding back the LCA? Is it politics? Is the LCA itself a crappy plane? I dont think kickbacks can be hidden that easily anymore from the Indian Media, So why such a large MRCA purchase? Is the IAF looking to surpass the 1000+ combat aircraft mark?
All these questions must be evaluated before blaming people in the procurement process.

An ex neighbor of mine in san antonio is in the USAF, last I spoke to him on email about a year ago I asked him about cope India. It wasn't the Su-30 that gave the Americans(who were handicapped) problems, it was the Bison. And that has been corroborated by the red flag video as well.


LCA is newer variant of Gnat, its our own jugaad.No way it can go.
 
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Desiman / others, I must admit, I know little about Bison. I have a couple of questions.

With the new Phalcons and the hype about network centric warfare, what is the role the Bisons can play ? The upgrade was much needed but it will be interesting to know the usefulness of Migs in a battle field with F16s old and new. It is great to know that the radar signature has diminished by a factor of 10/15. Have we made any changes to the radar system inside Migs. What is the bison radar capability?

a link will be useful...

Hey Ramu, as posted earlier, the radar on the Bison is the following -

Mig-21 bison's radar-The Koyopo-M


Kopyo was the first private venture radar by Phazotron. Drawing on technology developed for the Zhuk radar, Phazotron produced Kopyo as a lighter, smaller radar suitable for equipping trainers and light attack aircraft as well as for upgrading older aircraft like the MiG-21. It uses both high PRF and medium PRF modes for optimum detection and tracking at all aspects. Kopyo weighs 120kg, occupies 250dm3, with a 500mm antenna that achieves 29dB gain. Tracking limits of the radar are ±40°. Kopyo has 2 recievers, and transmits with a peak power of 5kw, 1kw average. It uses an MPS data processor, and a TS175 digital computer. Its MTBF is 120 hours. Kopyo has an air-to-air track-while-scan ("SNP") mode, it tracks 10 targets, and engages 2 simultaneously. The simultaneous engagement capability has been demonstrated. It retains a single target track mode. Search range is 57km headon and 25 - 30 km pursuit, with a tracking range of 45km, against a 3 sq m RCS target. It has vertical scan, automatic HUD scan (+- 14°), optical (pilot selected target on HUD) and helmet close combat modes. Air-to-surface operating modes are comprehensive, something Phazotron only introduced in the current crop of radar designs. There are three mapping modes; low resolution (real beam); medium resolution (Doppler beam sharpening, 10:1); high resolution (synthetic aperture, 100:1). Allows detection of moving ground targets, sea surface search, map freezing and interfaces with the Kh-31A antiship missile for target handoff.

Air-to-air operating mode

1. Detection range (Ddet), km:

- against free airspace:
head-on >50
in pursuit >30
- against surface background:
head-on >50
in pursuit >25

2. Single target detection and tracking range 0.75 Ddet
3. Track-while-scan with simultaneous engagement of two targets
4. Air-to-air missile targeting and launch zone generation
5. Close air combat in the following modes of radar operation

- vertical
- collimating
- visual, with the helmet-mounted target designator used
- interfacing with the helmet-mounted target designator
- interfacing with the R-27, RVV-AE and R-73E missiles
- radar built-in test

Air-to-surface operating mode:

- mapping:
low resolution (real beam)
medium resolution (Doppler sharpening beam)
high resolution (synthetic aperture)
- interfacing with the Kh-31A antiship missile
- detection of moving ground targets


The Bison plays the main role of an interceptor. It is normally sent out in formation of atleast 3-6 for a numerical advantage. The MKI's and the Mirage can hold their own fort very well. They play the role of the strike aircraft for the IAF, alongside the Mig 29's. The Jags and the Mig-27's play a more support and ground attack role. The migs can formidable as an interceptor mainly because of their turning capability and a low RCS. Because they are only intercepting and play as the second line, their radar does not need to be that advanced. The Bison has limited room in its nose and that is the main reason that a lower radar was chosen. Power consumption as well as cost of radar/jet ratio has be to be taken into account. The bison is a formidable enemy with its BVR capability and the support it has around it.
 
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Can Anyone tell me are there any AIRFRAME upgrades for MIG-21 Bison?

Please provide valid sources. Thanks!
 
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to be honest both the air forces need new aircraft. as long as poltical baboons taking desicions regarding mordernization it aint gonna happen soon:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall::hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:
 
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Hey Ramu, as posted earlier, the radar on the Bison is the following -

Mig-21 bison's radar-The Koyopo-M


Kopyo was the first private venture radar by Phazotron. Drawing on technology developed for the Zhuk radar, Phazotron produced Kopyo as a lighter, smaller radar suitable for equipping trainers and light attack aircraft as well as for upgrading older aircraft like the MiG-21. It uses both high PRF and medium PRF modes for optimum detection and tracking at all aspects. Kopyo weighs 120kg, occupies 250dm3, with a 500mm antenna that achieves 29dB gain. Tracking limits of the radar are ±40°. Kopyo has 2 recievers, and transmits with a peak power of 5kw, 1kw average. It uses an MPS data processor, and a TS175 digital computer. Its MTBF is 120 hours. Kopyo has an air-to-air track-while-scan ("SNP") mode, it tracks 10 targets, and engages 2 simultaneously. The simultaneous engagement capability has been demonstrated. It retains a single target track mode. Search range is 57km headon and 25 - 30 km pursuit, with a tracking range of 45km, against a 3 sq m RCS target. It has vertical scan, automatic HUD scan (+- 14°), optical (pilot selected target on HUD) and helmet close combat modes. Air-to-surface operating modes are comprehensive, something Phazotron only introduced in the current crop of radar designs. There are three mapping modes; low resolution (real beam); medium resolution (Doppler beam sharpening, 10:1); high resolution (synthetic aperture, 100:1). Allows detection of moving ground targets, sea surface search, map freezing and interfaces with the Kh-31A antiship missile for target handoff.

Air-to-air operating mode

1. Detection range (Ddet), km:

- against free airspace:
head-on >50
in pursuit >30
- against surface background:
head-on >50
in pursuit >25

2. Single target detection and tracking range 0.75 Ddet
3. Track-while-scan with simultaneous engagement of two targets
4. Air-to-air missile targeting and launch zone generation
5. Close air combat in the following modes of radar operation

- vertical
- collimating
- visual, with the helmet-mounted target designator used
- interfacing with the helmet-mounted target designator
- interfacing with the R-27, RVV-AE and R-73E missiles
- radar built-in test

Air-to-surface operating mode:

- mapping:
low resolution (real beam)
medium resolution (Doppler sharpening beam)
high resolution (synthetic aperture)
- interfacing with the Kh-31A antiship missile
- detection of moving ground targets


The Bison plays the main role of an interceptor. It is normally sent out in formation of atleast 3-6 for a numerical advantage. The MKI's and the Mirage can hold their own fort very well. They play the role of the strike aircraft for the IAF, alongside the Mig 29's. The Jags and the Mig-27's play a more support and ground attack role. The migs can formidable as an interceptor mainly because of their turning capability and a low RCS. Because they are only intercepting and play as the second line, their radar does not need to be that advanced. The Bison has limited room in its nose and that is the main reason that a lower radar was chosen. Power consumption as well as cost of radar/jet ratio has be to be taken into account. The bison is a formidable enemy with its BVR capability and the support it has around it.

isz there any specific reason india did not go for mig 21 (2000) upgrade package:angry:
 
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MiG-21 Lancer Upgrade Program Update

Upgraded version for the Romanian Air Force done by Elbit of Israel and Aerostar SA of Romania. The LanceR-A version is optimized for ground attack being able to deliver precision guided munitions of eastern and western origin as well as R-60, R-73 and Python III air to air missiles. The LanceR-B version is the trainer version and the LanceR-C version is the air superiority version featuring 2 LCD MFDs, helmet mounted sight and the Elta EL/M-2032 Air combat radar


The Israeli-Romanian Elbit-Aerostar team has completed the modernization of 102 upgraded MiG-21 Lancers. The ambitious modernization program, launched by the government of Romania five years ago is nearing completion, with 8 more aircraft in process. 100 of the aircraft are of the single seat M, MF and BiS types, and 10 are of the two seater MiG-21U trainer configuration. Four Romanian Air-Force bases are already operating the aircraft, which performed over 30,000 sorties. Compared to a poor readiness level that yielded an average of 30 hours per aircraft per year, the current utilization aircraft is raised threefold, as more aircraft are operational and capable of flying, even under weather conditions that previously limited such missions.

The Lancers have also participated successfully in various NATO exercises. The modernized aircraft demonstrated exceptional readiness levels, relative to their former status, as well as to comparable NATO air forces. In such exercises, the Romanian pilots could participate in the most sophisticated modes of operations, such as laser designation of targets, and precision attacks -capabilities that are yet to be acquired by NATO newcomers.

The Lancer fleet now constitutes the backbone of the Romanian Air Force, performing air defense, close air support and training roles. The aircraft can carry both Eastern and western armament, and perform extremely accurate attacks with both “iron bombs” and precision guided weapons. Lancer is cleared for missiles such as the R60, R73 and Python 3 missiles, 250 and 500 lb bombs, laser guided munitions, targeting, ECM and Reconnaissance pods etc. The Lancer has demonstrated a circular error point (CEP) accuracy of 7 mil/radian and below, while maintaining 1-2meter CEP with laser guided weapons. The aircraft is also cleared for asymmetric loading of weapons, which provides a more flexible and economical use of weapons. Among the 110 aircraft, 85 are configured for ground attack, equipped with a ranging radar, while 25 are air defense variants, using the Elta EL/M-2032 air combat radar.

During the modernization process, the Lancers were also equipped with new features to improve flight safety, including support for night flight and all-weather operation with the use of more advanced navigation equipment, such as VOR/ILS, INS and ADF. The pilot can also fly “head-out”, with the use of helmet mounted display, and improved cockpit man-machine interface.

The Lancer program is also augmented by a comprehensive training and logistical support, including full motion flight simulators, avionics trainers and additional systems.
 
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