Mi- 35M 'Hind E for Pakistan army

[Zarvan]

true. last time I had food there was over 10 years ago and I still remember that.
many other people had food there and mentioned it fondly.
very nicely cooked with fresh salad. honest and good quality cooking bring far more profits due to repeat customers and increased trade.

daals are underrated for strange reason, they are very potent protein supplement and were eaten by the gladiators of Rome.. anyways enough of ToT and food.

talking about the Russian Hinds, if their delivery is to commence by next summer then it might be way too late. if a couple of hinds could be procured now along with some Russian staff who could provide training on the go while the Pakistanis brought them back after their missions then it would have been nice our forces really need them yesterday

Well Sir but these helicopters can be used against other enemies and also for different support missions.

 

[Arsalan]

I did and it was not bad, daal cooked in desi ghee
there is a place on GT road near Deena or Jehlum if you are going to Lahore. the restaurant is famous for its daal handi with Tanduri roti or naans.
that daal I must say, hands down beats the usual meat (of whatrever animal you get in a restaurant) any time

That would be Mian Jee ka Hotel
Totally agreed that his daal is simply AWESOME! however, i do know of a few other spots, one is JHAL CHAKIAN ke daal, another yummy taste option is Hazara hotel in Faisalabad.

on topic, i see some members saying that the Mi-35 deal is not a good option and we should have gone for latest T-129 or Z-10. What they are not understanding is that Mi-35 are being procured by a very specif role in mind, troop insertion with bad *** fire support, COIN, no other option would meet this requirement this efficiently. Also the time frame of delivery is to be kept in mind, again no other option would have been this efficient in delivery time frame apart for AH-1Z cobras, that for some known and some unknown reasons Pakistan wont be getting or going for.
Also another IMPORTANT thing is that by getting Mi-35s the best option for its role, we will address the problem at hand, the operation against terrorists and that will buy us time to wait for T-129 or Z-10 to mature and to get funds available for there procurement late on.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I disagree - the PA is going to be running military ops in FATA for at least the next few years, even if an official "100% cleared" is issued.

post below will clarify what I meant and I why I said it

the current aviation inventory is just about coping with demands of the operation
current helicopter fleet is overworked and its depleting its flight time alarmingly
the major concern is American Cobras their supplies might not be replenished in the future
cobras lifetime is burning out we wont get them.
currently 2 helicopters have to perform the job of air cover/ CAP , med evac and troops drop off & pickup
a lot of men can be saved NOW if the Hinds where available.


yes, the operations will carry for for the foreseeable future. but it might be too late for some soldiers today and some missed opportunities against the terrorists. this is why I made that comment.

 

[Wolfhound]

pakistan is only going to buy ah 1z or mi28 to serve as a stopgap till t129B production line is set up

 

[Super Falcon]

20 to 25 will be enough PA uses them only for SSG ansd special missions

 

[Hurter]

beast of a helicopter. congrats Pakistan.

Thanks. But I still prefer Apache over Mi-35

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

pakistan is only going to buy ah 1z or mi28 to serve as a stopgap till t129B production line is set up

hey
stop living in delusion it would be either mi 28 or t129
you cant have both

 

[Wolfhound]

hey
stop living in delusion it would be either mi 28 or t129
you cant have both

we'll find out

 

[rockstar08]

Thanks. But I still prefer Apache over Mi-35

but US don't prefer to sell you that

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

These are absolutely beautiful!. Looks like something from golden age steam punk science fiction.

 

[HAIDER]

TAI recently signed another MOU for its T129. Turkish are pushing hard , but some unknown issues pop up, which PA is not telling.

 

[niaz]

Both MI-28 Havoc & TAI 129 are dedicated attack helicopters. TAI 129 is a derivative of Augusta Westland A-129 Mangusta whereas Mi-28 developed from the Mi-24 Hind. Later improvements probably had the benefit of the Russian Afghan war experience. I would guess that both helicopters would cost the same. Unless some on has a mole in the or Joint Staff office, it is difficult to guess which attack helo PA is going to go for.

Mi-35 on the other hand is a direct improvement upon the Mi-24, therefore also has some transport capability. IMO Mi-35 would be far most useful in fight against the Taliban; where it can fight its way in & out of the hot zone to reinforce the troops and/ or evacuate the casualties. Besides, Mi-35 has some commonalties with the existing PA Russian fleet because Mi-24 was the attack version of Mi-8 hence easier to maintain.

Personally, I would go for a couple squadrons (say 30) Mi-35’s immediately and worry about TAI-129 & Mi-28 later. However, if I must decide between these two, I would go for Mi-28, again for purely practical reasons. PA has a lot of Mi-8/ Mi-17 and hopefully Mi-35 soon. It should be easier to induct Mi-28 than a totally alien machine.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

TAI recently signed another MOU for its T129. Turkish are pushing hard , but some unknown issues pop up, which PA is not telling.

What is public is the US want to sale Apache but PAA would like to to buy AH1-Z. Turkey is developing T-129 B which PAA wants but the issue is US engine that it uses.
AH1-Z is going to be available to Pakistan in 2015 when the orders of US are complete. There is also the problem that Pakistan is still under sanctions which would also end in 2015 though US may extend or fresh may be imposed.

Turkey may be able to some how find a loophole in the US to indirectly provide not just the T129 but the engines along with the sikorsky heli's too.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

What is public is the US want to sale Apache but PAA would like to to buy AH1-Z.

Thats just cuz they r expensive

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Thats just cuz they r expensive

It is not just they are expensive the offer was used Apache A mlu = B standards. Operational cost is also a factor.

Even if T129 comes to Pakistan it would have PAF and PAA to invest on the training.

PAF and PAA already operates the Cobras so the new ones reduce many other issues as well.

INMO PAF should still look towards AH1Z where as PAA should go for ATAK;s. This would become a high lo kind of a scenario.

Pakistan procuring Russian MI 35 NE would be limited to use them on the WEST so there is a need for the west as well as the south.