Mi-28 For Pakistan - Russia Agrees

[Donatello]

So i guess Mi28 would fulfill the anti armor role and Mi35 for COIN. No need for any other chopper. Run cobras until you can and dispose them off.

 

[graphican]

do not worry abt my debating skills...worry about pakistanis skill of getting things done or not done..why pakistanis always whining about India? this thread was about Pakistan and Russia and u unnecessarily brought in India...

Then raise your point with some degree of sensibility. Madness is madness irrespective of context and your madness in the previous post was visible from a mile. Good to see you talking bit more sense this time.

Now your question: Why is Pakistan whining about India? When it comes to war-games or war-procurement, we are India centric. The second reason of bringing India into this equation is that we are procuring hardware from a country which was previously Indian ally and refused to sell anything to Pakistan on the basis. Even Mig-21s that we operate are F-7PGs which are manufactured by China and when we had to purchase something from Russia, that had to come in-directly to Pakistan. Now this would be second and direct trade between Russia and Pakistan within 6 months and that is a tectonic shift in Russia's policy to sell offensive military hardware to Pakistan which it knows will be used against which country.

And the third prong of bringing India into the discussion is Pakistan's possibility of procuring anti-tank missile which commonly come together with such gunship helicopters. If Pakistan procures (and sentence starts with if) anti-tank missiles with Mi-28, that will be a strange situation in which both attacking and defensive equipment is made in Russia.

It is not out of context or reasoning. You shouldn't feel pinched because of this question because this is a question about future and its possibility of turning into reality or not. We know India is still the largest importer of Russian hardware and it may and may not have a chance to stop this deal. This discussion is to know if India can influence this time or not.

Hope you've got answer to your question. If you try to be sensible and logical, you are likely to find this place a good learning ground like many other Indians here in the forum.

 

[slapshot]

Z10 acquisition should proceed. Military relationship with Russia will take sometime to mature.

Z10 will also take long time to mature before any induction happens.

first buy then talk....from what i get from u key board warriors is Pakistan is the best in the world in everything, but in reality ur diplomats r incompetent in hell and Indians r better negotiators than u guys will ever be...

btw check out ur news channels in the last few days during obama's visit to india...itna rondu log main zindagi main nahi dekha...

Do you guys bought Dassault Rafale? Ohh its been 13 years and all we are hearing are rants from Indians

 

[fatman17]

Express news as a source. .... tabloid news...

 

[Zarvan]

Express news as a source. .... tabloid news...

But even Janes and many international agencies reported that Russia was offered MI 28 and 3 different Air Defence systems to us and gave presentation during IDEX 2014

 

[Supply&Demand]

But even Janes and many international agencies reported that Russia was offered MI 28 and 3 different Air Defence systems to us and gave presentation during IDEX 2014

no...Jane said that Pakistan has expressed interest in buying..not Russia is interested in selling Mi-28

 

[Viper0011.]

from what i get from u key board warriors is Pakistan is the best in the world in everything, but in reality ur diplomats r incompetent in hell and Indians r better negotiators than u guys will ever be...

1) I don't think Pakistanis are good in a lot of things. In fact, one thing that they need desperately to grow as a nation, the nationalism, lacks so much its not even funny. And instead of admitting to not having played as one team, one nation, they'll happily shift the blame in all directions, including the famous line "its all America's fault", when American isn't responsible for Mullah generated intolerance and religious extremism inside the madrasas.

2) Is it really true that the Indian diplomats are great at negotiations and Pakistanis are "incompetent"?? Let's dissect it, the difference between a "successful" Indian diplomat and an "incompetent" Pakistani diplomat, is unfortunately the existence of a system (in India's case) and lack of a system (in Pakistan's case as the military kept destroying every system that tried to exist).

Plus, when negotiations are done backed up by a Billion strong consumers that hold tremendous profitability for Western businesses; and India can provide competition to China, the West would take an Indian diplomat using "sign language" and will agree to all hand gestures, let alone speaking. Because both, strategic and trade interests are aligned. On the other hand, a Pakistani diplomat unfortunately will be asking for help with some issues as Pakistan's in turmoil.

But if you change roles, and put 200 million strong growing Pakistan behind a Pakistani diplomat, the same Western counter parts will pay the same type of attention, compared to India (or may be a level below it but that's it).

But let's also see where Pakistani diplomats have neutralized any key advantage for India. Pakistani diplomats have secured about 75 Billion Dollars worth of investment from China (and a few billion from the ME, Russia and from some Western countries), in different infrastructure related projects, trade, industries, etc. Which is enough to put Pakistan on a growth path. That's huge.
Pakistan has established both, defense and trade projects with the Russians, once a soul mate for any Indian demands and needs. They are putting focus on expanding their investment footprint in Pakistan, with bilateral trade to go past a few billions a year. Plus defense pacts with Turkey, KSA, Indonesia, South Africa and of course the MNNA status with the US.

So the moral of the story is, when one diplomat backed up by a billion strong consumer market speaks to other countries, they listen and work with him. When a diplomat from a nation in crisis talks to you (always used to asking for help), the bigger powers don't take it seriously.
But when Pakistan, as a smaller nation in crisis, still manages to find her growth map on the globe, with a few countries agreeing to providing investments (on profit sharing basis, worth over 75 billion USD), and the work starts on time with rapid progress, you've proven yourself to be a very successful country at diplomacy

 

[That Guy]

How will they pay. Pakistan does not have foreign exchange for oil.

Pakistan isn't a poor nation, it can buy the hardware it needs badly, because that's house financing and economics works. It can afford this, because it must, there is no two ways about this. Needs dictate priority.

 

[syedali73]

Express news as a source. .... tabloid news...

It is not that easy to obtain hi-tech military equipment from Russia, I guess all of us understand it. However, it is also a fact that geopolitical realities are changing. Still, with regard to these purchases, I would like to quote Ghalib's sher:

Daam har mouj meiN hey, halqa e sad kaam neheng

There is trap in every wave, and hundred crocodiles are waiting with their mouths open.

DekheiN kya guzrey hey, qatrey pey gouhar honey tak

Lets see what happens to the poor drop of water till it becomes a pearl.

In a nutshell, the poet is saying that achieving something great is not easy.

 

[Zarvan]

no...Jane said that Pakistan has expressed interest in buying..not Russia is interested in selling Mi-28

No it was reported that Russia offered MI 28 and 3 Air Defence systems

 

[GURU DUTT]

It is not that easy to obtain hi-tech military equipment from Russia. However, geopolitical realities are changing. Still, with regard to these purchases, I would like to quote Ghalib's sher:

View attachment 188614

sirji urdu parni nahi aati kindli translate

 

[graphican]

Express news as a source. .... tabloid news...

This news is not new, when Pakistan was in talks with Russia for Mi-35 and negotiations were at initial stages, sale of Mi-28 was a possibility at that time. Now news is confirming deal of Mi-35 and is telling that Russia has agreed to spell the Mi-28s as well. It is a news which is inline with previous developments and seems possible than not.

But Allah knows the best.

 

[GURU DUTT]

No it was reported that Russia offered MI 28 and 3 Air Defence systems

well unlike chinese or americans russian belave in onli hard cash and not so called coalation support fund , war remitence orsoft loans .... bro where are you going to bring money fist to buy them and then to have a steady supply of spares as we all know how much russian stuff is goood when it comes to maintainence

 

[farhan_9909]

How will they pay. Pakistan does not have foreign exchange for oil.

The Petrol crisis was not because we didnt' had money to buy but because

*Finance minister want to show reserves beyond 15Billion dollars as he promised it till dec 2014,so he didn't paid the oil authorities to import it on time

*The demand in january increase suddenly because of decrease in petrol price

 

[Zarvan]

well unlike chinese or americans russian belave in onli hard cash and not so called coalation support fund , war remitence orsoft loans .... bro where are you going to bring money fist to buy them and then to have a steady supply of spares as we all know how much russian stuff is goood when it comes to maintainence

We have our sources don't you worry