Mesopotamia and Buddhism

[Bilal.]

I wish I'd said that! How did you get to this? Damn!

Did your summary really come from my posts? In which case I'm doing bloody well.

You didn't??? Or are you just pulling my leg?

 

[Harisudan]

So grow up and don't push your story line. Nobody's buying.

I'm not pushing anything here and these are not stories but fact, for which I can give you proofs.. I don't expect you to buy my arguments.. This being a forum, I just kept my arguments for the discretion of people here.. Buying or not buying is purely upto them.. I think I'm a grown up man, because if I was not then right now my response to your above comment would have been very different..

It is really silly to speak of many of us not being ready to read the scriptures completely

Then what else should I say?
If you are Hindu, when You haven't read the scriptures completely before making rubbish claims about your own religion, then you are committing a big sin because the onus of learning your religion thoroughly is upon you.. If you are a Non Hindu and making this statement about Hinduism, without going through scriptures and texts on Hinduism thoroughly, then you are trying to satisfy your own pre conceived negative notion on Hinduism.. I don't know which of this is you..?
It is equally bad as a non Muslim saying bad about Prophet Mohammed without going through the whole of qoran and a Non Christian saying bad about Christianity without going through the whole of it and bible..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Fellow forum mate I'm not pushing my story line, I'm trying to explain my share of knowledge in my religion with someone who doesn't have that and by then trying to change his stance about my religion.. There is no desperation in this.. If you are patient in reading my below clarification and try not to be desperate in branding it as anti feminine and caste centric then you may get what I'm trying to confer..
The reasons for vedas not advising women to recite it are as below
1. In fact in many places in the shrutis pregnant women are asked to leave the place of vedic chanting because some mantras may affect the uterus. This shows women were not barred from hearing chanting and discourses. One reason is that there are very swaras in the vedas that may affect the uterus and result in miscarriage and other related ill effects..
2. during the course of her periods a women is considered pure, as told in the Taittriya samhita. The reason as per the samhita is that Indra's Brahma hattya dosha after the killing of vritra was divided into many parts and women inherited it as menstruation. If you believe in the Vedic samhitas then women cannot do the required daily anushtanas for maintaing brahmaniyam. So that alone would disqualify them. So during the course of her periods, she cannot maintain brahma niyam(The strict physical and mental cleanliness) and hence barred from reciting it.. But then again they can learn the ithihasas puranasa and stothras, from a guru. Also they can perform vratas. As adithi practised payovrata under Rishi kashyapas guidance. This you can find in the Bagavata purana..
3. The physical limitation of women to undergo some of the rigourouse vratas during veda adhyayana is another problem.
Hence are not limited from learning veda samhitas, but limited in reciting it on a daily basis due to the above said reasons.. Other than those mentioned, they can recite on normal days and Adi shankara as mentioned by you, didn't shout at that lady because of reciting vedas, she recited it without maintaining brahmaniyam and Adishanakra having a divine vision identified this and stopped her from causing a sin, that's all..


You are making a basic mistake, confusing here between 'varna' and 'caste'. The two things are completely different. 'Varna' if we go by Gita is God-arranged (Chaturvarna maya srishtam), where as caste is something that came a lot lot later which is manifested by Human beings.. Varna is the inclination that God has put in him/her.
Now this person can be born in any caste, brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya, or shudra but still can choose to do what he likes to and thereby professing what god has meant him to be. There are brahmins who may be clerical workers. God gave them the inclination of a shudra, likewise we have rulers in India who were belonging to sudra community, though by caste they became sudra, by god's will they became Kshatriyas and lived and died as Kshatriyas..
And there was Raidas or Namdeva. God had given them 'brahmin' varna because they became great gurus in life, but they were born among shudras. But what God gave them shows. They transcend their castes.
Also Swami Sivananda does not appear to be casteist himself , as he had a Dalit guru for martial arts, and prostrated before him.
The varnashrama dharma he stated could be the fluid one, which is the true one as well, where one's karma determines the caste and not birth.
The very fact that Siddhartha born in the Kshatriya caste,Guru Raidas born in the Shudra caste became brahmins by karma, illustrates this fact.. So pls do not conclude anything unless you dig deep and read everything that surrounds it.. Unfortunately most of the Hindus couldn't spend time nor interest to learn the depths of their religion which is the major cause for other religious people trying to impact with half baked knowledge..

You are the second person in recent weeks to come out with pompous and totally divorced from reality accounts of Hindu beliefs and practice. I ignored his windy nonsense, I intend to do the same with you.

You didn't??? Or are you just pulling my leg?

I'm dead serious.

 

[Bilal.]

I'm dead serious.

Oh... I understood so from post 29. May be I made a mistake in understanding what you've been trying to convey.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh... I understood so from post 29. May be I made a mistake in understanding what you've been trying to convey.

You have summarised my argument very well, and there is no mistake in understanding me or what I am trying to say or any of that. None whatsoever.

 

[Harisudan]

You are the second person in recent weeks to come out with pompous and totally divorced from reality accounts of Hindu beliefs and practice. I ignored his windy nonsense, I intend to do the same with you.

What windy non sense..?? Religion is as deep as I told u above.. Same goes for every other religion.. The fact is that people don't understand their religion completely and start preaching as if they are messiahs or prophets.. Even worse is that people from other religions bashing another religion for some negative thing without understanding the real meaning behind them.. You are doing exactly that.. you took example of Vedas, and I clarified you with real meanings and examples, for which your response is the above quote, which makes me feel that you are just another Hinduism basher with all fancy English words..
There are thousand irregularities in every religion in the world which people are doing without understanding the scriptures properly.. Even in your own religion it is evident, so if you want to point it out start from yours and then come to ours..

@waz, @Slav Defence @Horus @Oscar @WebMaster

Mods pls close down this thread, as this will surely be a Hinduism bashing thread in a little while as our friend @Joe Shearer , is slowly taking it on a one sided track..