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Mehsud offers unconditional surrender

"Mehsud offers unconditional surrender"

Really? That's great.

Everybody meet outside Peshawar's central jail. Get the army engineers busy building a temporary prison facility adjacent. Send your emissaries afar to tell all "miscreants" in the field to report to the prison, surrender your weapons, be secured by the awaiting police, and await processing as either a criminal or combattant.

That would be an unconditional surrender. I'll believe it when seen.

Since a mysterious explosion in Kabul we've seen a change in ISI leadership, actual P.A. combat operations in Bajaur, and a hefty uptick in PREDATOR strikes- TO INCLUDE S. WAZIRISTAN.

Something's changed. I'm sure that PREDATOR has found plenty of large rats on the move since things got dicey in Bajaur. Cell-phones are being used. Escapes planned. New safe houses established...

Much upheavel within their once-comfortable abodes. Their movement has rendered them especially vulnerable to attack. Good. Keep the pressure up. The benefits are clear in the tangible corpses of dead al-Qaeda and taliban leaders from recent strikes.

The P.A. needs to look at it's operations in Bajaur and elsewhere. There are real military issues arising from the use of heavy weapons, artillery, and PAF airstrikes on the local population. Some reports indicate as many as 200,000 refugees in Bajaur. As with the recent Quetta earthquake, these people will be severely affected by the oncoming winter weather.

Yet the P.A. has very legitimately found these "miscreants" well-prepared by both fortifications within residential homes connected by cross-street tunnels, superbly tied-in interlocking fields of fire, and a determination to defend with their own very considerable weaponry. No easy nut to crack for infantry without the use of heavy weapons and indicative of their area's continuing value to the "miscreants".

But if there's dualism required in perspective, it has nothing to do with the identification of those worthy of war. It's, instead, the requirement of the GoP to put it's money where it's mouth too often goes- towards the citizenry of NWFP and the "wards" of the autonomous regions. That requires an extensive social and construction engineering efforts aimed at both minds and structure. There's been far too little evidence of such a parallel effort to date. Maybe it's the economy. Maybe it's the recent earthquake. But one without the other won't even convince this war-mongering American of Pakistan's true and full appreciation of the depths of it's travails.

It'll be a terribly long haul and civil projects must take the fore immediately on the heels of established security. Thus, please don't announce "victory" in these districts before being prepared to bring all the visible signs of such to their residents.

Funny enough, that term- "miscreant", now truly applies for this mish-mash of troublemakers- none whom possess one legitimate notion of improvement for those whom they profess to represent and defend. Where' the social agenda of the taliban to raise forth the living standards of the border regions of both sides?

There's much talk of the different "taliban" here- good and bad. There's plenty of support on this board for the good "taliban". Not much for the other group much less the assorted criminals and affiliated n'er do well's with various nationalist bents. Many boardmembers support the good "taliban" understanding fully that it's the intention of these groups to continue using the Pakistani border region as sanctuary from which to assault the afghani government and people.

Understandably, this dualist approach by supporters here and elsewhere to Pakistan's own insurgency offers no relief to the Afghan gov't nor ISAF. Nor can it possibly strengthen the GoP's protestations about PREDATOR. Were that the Turkish army across your border, the area would long since have been OCCUPIED. Even today, the U.S. and Iraq recognize Turkey's manifest need to attack the PKK where they live and reconstitute. Neither Iraq, the KRG (Kurdish Regional Government) nor the U.S. are prepared to seriously address the PKK. None, though, are prepared to oppose Turkey's right to self-defense even should that includes the periodic cross-border raids and operations demanded by the Turkish public that we all freely read about.

No. There's only one way- stack arms and walk into prison with your fate in the hands of military tribunals. That's unconditional surrender and the only answer which can be demanded by a Pakistani people that value true sovereignty and allegiance to one nation and one flag over accomodations of political convenience.

A few thoughts by a neo-con minion of the Great Satan for your enjoyment and temporal edification.:devil::usflag:
 
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Thanks for your post S2 a little bit of reason injected into this thread.

Keep bringing the neocon view of the great satan.
 
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"Mehsud offers unconditional surrender"


No. There's only one way- stack arms and walk into prison with your fate in the hands of military tribunals. That's unconditional surrender and the only answer which can be demanded by a Pakistani people that value true sovereignty and allegiance to one nation and one flag over accomodations of political convenience.

A few thoughts by a neo-con minion of the Great Satan for your enjoyment and temporal edification.:devil::usflag:


Do you thinks its going to happen. Pakistan needs to open Chinese style indoctrination schools with the help of the great satan and teach the people US values of what it means to be a Pakistani !

:cheers:

BTW hate Satan Bush and MiniMi Satan Blair for involving us in Iraq.

Regards
 
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One question, who here supports "good" Taliban that violate Pakistan’s territorial integrity? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many Pakistanis do support such people...but not on this forum. And if anyone does come here claiming that these scum are 'holy' and deserve Pakistan’s allegiance, then those guys are hardly ever taken seriously. So I will just point out that it would be inaccurate to say "many" board members support any 'Taliban' operating from Pakistani soil against the wishes of Pakistani institutions.
 
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It seems that many here, including A.M., believe that the "good" taliban, i.e. mullah Nazir et al deserve a longer-leash while the "bad" taliban receive the immediate and tender ministrations of the P.A., F.C., and ISI. Understandable given limited means to address all simultaneously but offers no relief to those under attack inside Afghanistan by the "good" taliban encamped within your borders.

That's a problem.
 
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^^i thought he was dead or nearly dead!

hey S-2 did u vote! big day for the american nation
 
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I'm staying true to my vision and, selecting the best candidate to do so, I've chosen...me.:lol:

Naw. McCain. Worried he might die messing around w/ Sarah but God bless him if he goes out that way. Of course, the fear from his demise comes with that saucy lil' wench going from sports announcer to Prez.

Oh well. That's what makes us great. Everybody can dream big in America.:agree::usflag:
 
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I'm staying true to my vision and, selecting the best candidate to do so, I've chosen...me.:lol:

Naw. McCain. Worried he might die messing around w/ Sarah but God bless him if he goes out that way. Of course, the fear from his demise comes with that saucy lil' wench going from sports announcer to Prez.

Oh well. That's what makes us great. Everybody can dream big in America.:agree::usflag:

LOL iam going to go off topic but yes Any body can dream big in America BUT without the blessing of special interest and lots and lots of money in there pockets No one can win even a Nomination in America.:usflag:
 
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It seems that many here, including A.M., believe that the "good" taliban, i.e. mullah Nazir et al deserve a longer-leash while the "bad" taliban receive the immediate and tender ministrations of the P.A., F.C., and ISI. Understandable given limited means to address all simultaneously but offers no relief to those under attack inside Afghanistan by the "good" taliban encamped within your borders.

That's a problem.

Oh, I see. Dont mean to bicker and all..but Mr AM can you please tell us if you support or are willing to tolerate Taliban groups operating from our territory against NATO/US forces in Afghanistan? Thanks...
 
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Mr AM can you please tell us if you support or are willing to tolerate Taliban groups operating from our territory against NATO/US forces in Afghanistan?

Not in the long run, but given scarcity of resources, and a complete lack of support from the international community in the face of our economic crisis, caused in large part due to the WoT, I am not in favor of increasing attacks against the breakaway factions of the TTP to the extent that they rejoin the TTP and form a united front against Pakistan in FATA.

I see this position as entirely analogous to the US position of tolerating the drug and weapons trade in Afghanistan, that directly supplies the Taliban in both nations. I do not see much of a difference between tolerating some of the militant groups in order to keep the TTP groups divided, and tolerating the drug trade that supplies these groups with the weapons and money to carry out these attacks.

If innocent Afghan civilians have no respite from these attacks, nether do innocent Pakistani civilians from the militants supplied by the poppy crop and weapons trade in Afghanistan.

Now, were the US to strongly act against the drug and weapons trade in Afghanistan, if she is willing to bring pressure to bear on India to free up Pakistani resources in the East, if the world community is willing to understand that the PWoT woudl expand substantially and therefore have an even greater destabilizing impact on the country, and extend support to offset that impact, I am in favor of simultaneously acting against all Taliban factions in Pakistan.
 
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I see this position as entirely analogous to the US position of tolerating the drug and weapons trade in Afghanistan, that directly supplies the Taliban in both nations. I do not see much of a difference between tolerating some of the militant groups in order to keep the TTP groups divided, and tolerating the drug trade that supplies these groups with the weapons and money to carry out these attacks.

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http://www.ajc.com/services/content/news/stories/2008/11/04/warglance.html

WAR DEVELOPMENTS
Associated Press

Tuesday, November 04, 2008

IRAQ

> A series of bombings targeting Iraqi police, soldiers and officials, including one that narrowly missed an Oil Ministry official, killed 10 people and wounded dozens Monday in Baghdad and Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of the capital.

> Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki pledged to protect Iraq’s Christian minority, which has faced a spate of attacks this month in the northern city of Mosul, where some 13,000 Christians have fled the city.

> The Iraqi Parliament approved legislation restoring guaranteed seats on provincial councils to Christians and other small religious communities, the last major hurdle to holding provincial elections next year.

AFGHANISTAN

> Gunmen kidnapped a French aid worker off the streets of Kabul on Monday and killed an intelligence agency employee who tried to intervene in the Afghan capital.

> In southern Afghanistan, coalition and Afghan troops hunting for Taliban militants discovered a drug lab and destroyed more than 40 tons of hashish.


I hope you are happy now.

Regards
 
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Not in the long run, but given scarcity of resources, and a complete lack of support from the international community in the face of our economic crisis, caused in large part due to the WoT, I am not in favor of increasing attacks against the breakaway factions of the TTP to the extent that they rejoin the TTP and form a united front against Pakistan in FATA.

.

So you are agreeing that PA will be mercanaries ? If the International Govts pay you, you will kill them otherwise you will let them thrive ?

If thats the policy then get ready for a Red Mosque siege every 6 months.

Regards
 
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> In southern Afghanistan, coalition and Afghan troops hunting for Taliban militants discovered a drug lab and destroyed more than 40 tons of hashish.


I hope you are happy now.

Regards

No I am not happy, just as S-2 would not be happy at the news of a solitary raid by the PA in FATA. Even now, months into the Bajaur and Swat operations, with thousands of militants dead and their strategic hideouts destroyed and/or occupied, there is only a reluctant acceptance of the shift in Pakistan's policy.

Don't expect me to buy the argument that the US has changed track until I see significant, comprehensive and sustained action against the drug and weapons trade in Afghanistan.
So you are agreeing that PA will be mercanaries ? If the International Govts pay you, you will kill them otherwise you will let them thrive ?

If thats the policy then get ready for a Red Mosque siege every 6 months.

Regards

Hogwash. Learn to understand nuance and read the entire argument.

I have specifically referred to not pushing the Taliban factions that have broken with the TTP (and have therefore helped minimize the local influence of the TTP) so far that they rejoin with the TTP and pose a united front that would in fact result in a Marriot every week. That does not mean we do not move against them once the TTP is taken care of, and Swat and Bajaur are pacified.

Pakistan is already struggling with dealing with the threat in Bajaur and Swat, and I do not see how expanding the scope of the war significantly will not degrade the situation without the changes in US policy and support I outlined in my post above. If we move against all factions of the Taliban simultaneously the resulting destabilization, without support, could potentially leave Pakistan even less capable of carrying out this war than it is now, which would then be a victory for the Taliban. In case you haven't noticed, Pakistan is on the verge of default. If the economy collapses, and Pakistan cannot pay its workers, which army is going to fight in FATA?
 
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