MEDIA OUTLET REPORTS POSSIBLE AIR DEFENCE DEAL BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND THALES

[khanasifm]

Gm60 and 1000

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/ground-smarter-1000

 

[Sugarcane]

As I said in another thread, Arms suppliers have found the weak nerve of India. Now she should keep the cheque book handy, as all it requires is to spread rumor of sales to Pakistan.

PS: Pakistan should consider for charging commission

 

[The Eagle]

@The Eagle . Currently India is operating 20 Ground Master surveillance radars. what you think if Pakistan go for Ground Master 400. will the Indian experience with these radars effect us ?

Operating an equipment and having experience with the same actually creates a layer for rival to break in but needs more hard work, learning of tactics as well as to up the expertise more than opponents experience. Indian experience will definitely help them against us but once we are going for an equipment from such family, it is not necessarily to be the same type & ability but will be looking for more advance/different type with more effectiveness. Rivals nowadays mostly are aware with equipment of each other though it depends upon the strategy of either that how to gain upper hand. Taygibay already shared it in post #15 what we have and how it is going to be. However, yesterday, French Ambassador met CJCSC in GHQ and praised Pakistan War on Terrorism, support & mutual learning between both countries in the same subject as well as to progress further in defence co-operation.

 

[RealNapster]

Operating an equipment and having experience with the same actually creates a layer for rival to break in but needs more hard work, learning of tactics as well as to up the expertise more than opponents experience. Indian experience will definitely help them against us but once we are going for an equipment from such family, it is not necessarily to be the same type & ability but will be looking for more advance/different type with more effectiveness. Rivals nowadays mostly are aware with equipment of each other though it depends upon the strategy of either that how to gain upper hand. Taygibay already shared it in post #15 what we have and how it is going to be. However, yesterday, French Ambassador met CJCSC in GHQ and praised Pakistan War on Terrorism, support & mutual learning between both countries in the same subject as well as to progress further in defence co-operation.

correct. also a country modified Ground Master 400 as per their needs and are using that modified GM 400. (can't remember the name of the country.) So in-short, we can modify GM 400 as per our requirements in that case it will be completely different from that of India. Now i understood. thanks.

 

[IceCold]

Operating an equipment and having experience with the same actually creates a layer for rival to break in but needs more hard work, learning of tactics as well as to up the expertise more than opponents experience. Indian experience will definitely help them against us but once we are going for an equipment from such family, it is not necessarily to be the same type & ability but will be looking for more advance/different type with more effectiveness. Rivals nowadays mostly are aware with equipment of each other though it depends upon the strategy of either that how to gain upper hand. Taygibay already shared it in post #15 what we have and how it is going to be. However, yesterday, French Ambassador met CJCSC in GHQ and praised Pakistan War on Terrorism, support & mutual learning between both countries in the same subject as well as to progress further in defence co-operation.

I dont know which side the French are playing but very recently the French minister i think foreign on his tour to India actually endorsed so called surgical strike of India on Pakistan saying India has the right to defend itself. A French member here on PDF who happens to be on think tank said that France and India are strategic partners while we have nothing with Pakistan. To me this looks more of a lip service otherwise French wouldnt be echoing India's words. What is your take sir?

 

[The Eagle]

I dont know which side the French are playing but very recently the French minister i think foreign on his tour to India actually endorsed so called surgical strike of India on Pakistan saying India has the right to defend itself. A French member here on PDF who happens to be on think tank said that France and India are strategic partners while we have nothing with Pakistan. To me this looks more of a lip service otherwise French wouldnt be echoing India's words. What is your take sir?

Firstly from visiting India point of view and endorsing the right of self defence is as usual as for every country diplomacy with their partners (business etc). Statement of french official was based upon India's claim of so-called strike and as France is not a rival, there was no talk of any evidence but indeed, the briefing and discussion by India was taken on face value/diplomatic norms. Yes, France is strategical partner with India due to Rafale, Scorpene Sub and many other dealings.

Now coming to Pakistan dealing with France as it is said that currently, France is not our strategical partner or to weigh it par with India but we must look at the time of Augosta and all those sittings/warm relations as well. A supplier firstly interests its own benefits, the national interests than comes to international diplomacy that none party ever compromise on National Benefits at first place so these statements for relations and business are must and part of the SOP in this area that we may not mind it. Even there is nothing between Pakistan-France currently as compare to India but on other hand, recently we signed Engine Electrification Contract with French Company along-with ToT that will benefit us a lot in long term by reading one of the critical part of Fighter Plane Engine, the wiring/engine harness to face extreme heat etc. Also, IMO, it depends upon our interest of area and the money we show for business interests, that any supplier will be visiting us regularly. While talking pure business and weapon purchase, we need to keep aside our nationalism as well as the friendly or brotherly relations.

As I mentioned about recent meet of French Ambassador with CJCSC in Islamabad, that is not merely a meet & greet but holds a meaningful chat that soon will benefit us. Just look at MoUs and LoUs signed in Ideas 2016 that very few of us were expecting publicly about that but still proves that there are lot of relations working behind the curtains/closed doors that we mostly play safe shots due to many diplomatic reasons.

My friend, there are no permanent friends or Foes in diplomacy and neither the doors of anyone are closed for others forever but depends upon mutual interests for the nations. If our defence department is a big pocket, you will see top contenders/suppliers lined here to take the best out of money stock for them so mostly it works like this that we are currently dealing and moving ahead as per resources. From diplomatic/political point of view, which actually plays major role as well, you know how capable our diplomats/current ruling elites are and what to expect from them except few. None ever expected current Pakistan-Russia relations in past but you see things changed because of national interests like look at defence co-operation etc.

What french did in India, need to stay in India (due to business affiliation) as per diplomatic & national interest norms and we have to follow our own path between both countries while keeping in view the relations states with rival. One or two people and sometimes few of the diplomats does not check-mate the whole relations of countries but are merely one side of the picture. As we are not pouring money a lot so we may not expect defence relations on high grounds that money talks (close friends, brotherly nations does not fall in this category) however, diplomatic relations will continue on its normal terms. Just my opinion and such statements while selling weapons (that too for billions of $$), actually works like icing on the cake for more attractive and effective sale.

 

[IceCold]

Firstly from visiting India point of view and endorsing the right of self defence is as usual as for every country diplomacy with their partners (business etc). Statement of french official was based upon India's claim of so-called strike and as France is not a rival, there was no talk of any evidence but indeed, the briefing and discussion by India was taken on face value/diplomatic norms. Yes, France is strategical partner with India due to Rafale, Scorpene Sub and many other dealings.

Now coming to Pakistan dealing with France as it is said that currently, France is not our strategical partner or to weigh it par with India but we must look at the time of Augosta and all those sittings/warm relations as well. A supplier firstly interests its own benefits, the national interests than comes to international diplomacy that none party ever compromise on National Benefits at first place so these statements for relations and business are must and part of the SOP in this area that we may not mind it. Even there is nothing between Pakistan-France currently as compare to India but on other hand, recently we signed Engine Electrification Contract with French Company along-with ToT that will benefit us a lot in long term by reading one of the critical part of Fighter Plane Engine, the wiring/engine harness to face extreme heat etc. Also, IMO, it depends upon our interest of area and the money we show for business interests, that any supplier will be visiting us regularly. While talking pure business and weapon purchase, we need to keep aside our nationalism as well as the friendly or brotherly relations.

As I mentioned about recent meet of French Ambassador with CJCSC in Islamabad, that is not merely a meet & greet but holds a meaningful chat that soon will benefit us. Just look at MoUs and LoUs signed in Ideas 2016 that very few of us were expecting publicly about that but still proves that there are lot of relations working behind the curtains/closed doors that we mostly play safe shots due to many diplomatic reasons.

My friend, there are no permanent friends or Foes in diplomacy and neither the doors of anyone are closed for others forever but depends upon mutual interests for the nations. If our defence department is a big pocket, you will see top contenders/suppliers lined here to take the best out of money stock for them so mostly it works like this that we are currently dealing and moving ahead as per resources. From diplomatic/political point of view, which actually plays major role as well, you know how capable our diplomats/current ruling elites are and what to expect from them except few. None ever expected current Pakistan-Russia relations in past but you see things changed because of national interests like look at defence co-operation etc.

What french did in India, need to stay in India (due to business affiliation) as per diplomatic & national interest norms and we have to follow our own path between both countries while keeping in view the relations states with rival. One or two people and sometimes few of the diplomats does not check-mate the whole relations of countries but are merely one side of the picture. As we are not pouring money a lot so we may not expect defence relations on high grounds that money talks (close friends, brotherly nations does not fall in this category) however, diplomatic relations will continue on its normal terms. Just my opinion and such statements while selling weapons (that too for billions of $$), actually works like icing on the cake for more attractive and effective sale.

Thanks for the detailed response. Always a pleasure reading your post.

 

[The Eagle]

Thanks for the detailed response. Always a pleasure reading your post.

Pleasure is mine Sir, that at-least you asked me for my take on this. Thank you indeed for asking by way of sharing your opinion on such valued subject.

 

[IceCold]

Pleasure is mine Sir, that at-least you asked me for my take on this. Thank you indeed for asking by way of sharing your opinion on such valued subject.

Please! no need to call me sir, it does not justify and besides makes me look old
My contention with all of this was and to some extent still is that i dont know why but i get this impression that when it comes to India Pakistan countries try to further their agenda at our expense. This was the case with US most of times since we heard them saying too many times how its Pakistans responsibility alone to improve relations with its neighbours. I think part of the problem is as you yourself also stated are the political elites of Pakistan. Since these countries know that naming or shaming Pakistan in a hostile country would not create a diplomatic spat with Pakistan, hence they do it with impunity but IMO no country should be allowed to further their interests at our expense even if that means endorsing fake surgical strikes just to please Indians.

 

[Areesh]

As I said in another thread, Arms suppliers have found the weak nerve of India. Now she should keep the cheque book handy, as all it requires is to spread rumor of sales to Pakistan.

PS: Pakistan should consider for charging commission

India na ho gaya buddha seth ho gaya. Har koi us ko choona laga kar loot raha hai.

 

[The Eagle]

Please! no need to call me sir, it does not justify and besides makes me look old

Wouldn't derail further but TBH with you, that was a respect call and after all you did same to me in your post #20 here..... ... never mind--------JK..

My contention with all of this was and to some extent still is that i dont know why but i get this impression that when it comes to India Pakistan countries try to further their agenda at our expense. This was the case with US most of times since we heard them saying too many times how its Pakistans responsibility alone to improve relations with its neighbours. I think part of the problem is as you yourself also stated are the political elites of Pakistan. Since these countries know that naming or shaming Pakistan in a hostile country would not create a diplomatic spat with Pakistan, hence they do it with impunity but IMO no country should be allowed to further their interests at our expense even if that means endorsing fake surgical strikes just to please Indians.

Countries further their agenda on our expense------- right on mark but that may represent US in this saga because other EU countries have less ambition of such sort and only US continues with world police thing by gathering with rest of the parties otherwise, you see most countries doing their business or keeps aside until & unless dragged by US in to NATO etc thing. So such type of relations are only beneficial for big or I would say bigger players like US or Russia. Not mentioning China here because she has been with us in our thick & thin without any such ambition even when China itself needed our help back then. These games helps parties like US or Russia each other to keep in check on different grounds than home. US does it to contain China or Russia, yet Russia jumps into many situations very mostly US trying to keep her influence so the games works like this.

But, being a defence partner, France actually ousted US in Indian deals so to say that, we did it to France by going US in past as well. However, US defence deals are mostly related with keeping her influence through weapons sale yet France is only doing business from economic point of view and does diplomacy from diplomatic office but French Weapons are not sold mostly for french influence. Russia or some internal forces, deliberately speculate about xyz sale to Pakistan and we sees the results as well that India makes a run to Moscow and then use to sing more deals so either US or Russia, these both parties actually taking the chunk of Indian Money in the name of possible weapons to Pakistan or on the basis of provided ones.

Our Diplomatic Office miserably failed on different occasions and did not proved it to be what we have been expecting and there are reasons that mostly ruling political class has been looking at military as the enemy or Military finds it insulting (the mistrust, loot and bigger corruption contrary to done by Military ever) hence, never took it in confidence or trust to come up with a foreign policy with mixture of Military Purchase + Diplomatic wins. The same democratic fear or mistrust by military on politicians actually benefited the rival at most and very few understands the aftermath. Our political ruling class that is mostly corrupt and famous for commissions actually try to reach defence purchase as a cake of money, their own relations and references with the sponsor that Military do not approve or finds it fit yet from Military approach, diplomatic office doubts the same as an opposition to politics and pays less attention of no bribes or kickbacks or to say that, the unhappy master/handler. The day our political branches broke the chain of such slavery based upon greed and lust of money, we will be seeing a combine strategy along-with Military purchase as Defence cum strong Diplomatic relations.

 

[Sugarcane]

India na ho gaya buddha seth ho gaya. Har koi us ko choona laga kar loot raha hai.

India can go to any level to stop Pakistan from getting slightest benefit, If they can't stop than they will try to convince themselves that how that thing is actually harmful for Pakistan. This jealousy is in DNA of Indians not just government.

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

India can go to any level to stop Pakistan from getting slightest benefit, If they can't stop than they will try to convince themselves that how that thing is actually harmful for Pakistan. This jealousy is in DNA of Indians not just government.

Jealousy in DNA

 

[Taygibay]

very recently the French minister i think foreign on his tour to India actually endorsed so called surgical strike of India on Pakistan saying India has the right to defend itself.

Yeah well, even in France and even in his political party,
there is very little respect for what that guy thinks TBH.
He's a stand-in until the elections, loyal to the Prez, etc.

In general & to the exception of our MinDef, you should
consider that real Foreign Affairs will only start back in
summer with the next government.

More directly on-topic, I checked for you @The Eagle my
friend and best answer is - refusal to acknowledge an ADS
but there is a situation to be finalized concerning Damocles.

The first part strictly means that no one will talk of course,
not that there is nothing happening.

Best of days one and all, Tay.

 

[HAIDER]

Yeah well, even in France and even in his political party,
there is very little respect for what that guy thinks TBH.
He's a stand-in until the elections, loyal to the Prez, etc.

In general & to the exception of our MinDef, you should
consider that real Foreign Affairs will only start back in
summer with the next government.

More directly on-topic, I checked for you @The Eagle my
friend and best answer is - refusal to acknowledge an ADS
but there is a situation to be finalized concerning Damocles.

The first part strictly means that no one will talk of course,
not that there is nothing happening.

Best of days one and all, Tay.

What's the reason , French defence products price is exceptionally high ? , it's due to country tax system. How they cover the product warranty. Because, reading about Indian Mirage 2000 maintenance contract, over 2 billion for parts and maintenance next few years.