Media Cheat on Tibet Riot

[sahaliyan]

You think so?

The place they do business belongs to the Tibetans or Uighurs?

Do show with links so that I am educated.

In Urumchi, the Hans are the majority and not the Uighurs!

Urumqi is in north Xinjiang,the city's name is origion from mongolia

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is regrettable and immensely frustrating to discuss with people who have no clue as to what they are saying and with so shallow a knowledge that it is amazing!!

Urumchi is what?

Urumchi or Ürümqi (English IPA: [uːˈruːmtʃi]; Uyghur: ئۈرۈمچی‎, Ürümchi; with a population of about 2.6 million, is the capital of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China, in the northwest of the country. It is farther away from sea than any other large city in the world.

I would be damned if it is in Mongolia!!

I was alluding to the minorities, old boy and their plight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
You think so?

The place they do business belongs to the Tibetans or Uighurs?

Do show with links so that I am educated.

In Urumchi, the Hans are the majority and not the Uighurs!

Urumqi is in north Xinjiang,the city's name is origion from mongolia

You are really from China?

Please understand that I am not a total illiterate that you can fool as you do with your rural folks!

 

[kvLin]

The atrocities that China can perpetuate to ensure its Communist will over all Chinese people requires no elaboration.

As Chinese, more so as Communists as my own State is, statistics is your bread and butter.

good, then you seem to owe me the statistics,or bikini, to display the atrocities by Chinese government during the riot in Lahsa.


and the rest of your post I would sincerely discuss with you, before you take a cool breath through open window.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is always cool where I am and fresh air in abundance.

Since you infer that you are short of the same, do so as you advice.

Cultural Revolution and Tienanmen Square was as placid as a Queen's At Home?

You would know. I only read from the ''lying'' western media!!

Maybe both never happened and the west was just slandering China!!

 

[sahaliyan]

Urumqi is word origion from mongolian language,so simple,the traditinal uighur region is six cities
Kashgar,Yerkan,Hotan,Yinjishar,Aksu and Wushi
The north Xinjiang is a region controled by Oirat Mongols,but those Mongols were killed by Qing army.
You should learn more history

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Urumqi is word origion from mongolian language,so simple,the traditinal uighur region is six cities
Kashgar,Yerkan,Hotan,Yinjishar,Aksu and Wushi
The north Xinjiang is a region controled by Oirat Mongols,but those Mongols were killed by Qing army.
You should learn more history

I am well aware of history.

I don't really require your help and stop obfuscating with the irrelevant!

We were not discussing history.

We were discussing minorities and Urumchi where the Hans outnumber the locals.


But like a good communist apparatchik you tried to divert the issue and confuse it.

Does it matter whether it is a Mongol word or a Patagonian one? What is the relevance to the issue under debate of Chinese and the minorities?

No wonder you want to divert the issue since your conscience tells you that the Chinese have gone too far in their repression of the riots as also not allowing the minorities to live the way they want and instead hose them with Hanisation!!

 

[sahaliyan]

I am well aware of history.

I don't really require your help and stop obfuscating with the irrelevant!

We were not discussing history.

We were discussing minorities and Urumchi where the Hans outnumber the locals.


But like a good communist apparatchik you tried to divert the issue and confuse it.

Does it matter whether it is a Mongol word or a Patagonian one? What is the relevance to the issue under debate if Chinese and the minorities?

I find you Indians like to call others communist,good job
Uighurs aren't locals of Urumqis,the locals are Mongols,you looser
Also,not minorities are same,I'm an ethnic Manchu,I never felt I have trouble with Hans,I think most Huis,Mongols and Zhuangs are same to me,you want to make minorities aren't Chinese,good job
You know nothing of history,you looser

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

This is what they feel.

It need not be my view.

Tibet File No.20:
Dissident Essays on Tibet: 1 Wei Jingsheng: The Special Status of Tibet

Wei Jingsheng is a prominent Chinese dissident who has spent most of the last 20 years as a political prisoner of the Chinese. This article is written as if addressed to Deng Xiaoping, and in response to the Chinese "White Paper" entitled "Tibet - Its Ownership and Human Rights". The article first appeared in the Tibetan Bulletin (January/February 1994).

In order to improve the situation and solve the Tibet question, the first thing to do is to understand what the problems are. Only to listen to the soothing lies will not help you to understand the reality and find out the problem and certainly will not solve the problem.

Therefore, I... hope that you would create an academic atmosphere of free expression, so that people of knowledge could put forward more insight with regard to this issue and find out the problem. Only by doing so, could we avoid losing the last opportunity of settling the issue and avoid repeating the situation of the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.

The Tibet issue is a difficult one because of its uniqueness and the vagueness of its sovereignty. The "unity" between Tibet and China (Qing dynasty and Republic of China) is so special that it is not comprehended by many scholars. The Amban (Chinese representative) in Tibet was sent there as a "liaison officer" after the suppression of the rebellion in Nepal which was then affiliated to Tibet and it was for the purpose of putting down similar rebellions in the future. He was not... the top administrative officer in Tibet. As a matter of fact, he never had any authority over the administration and military affairs of Tibet.

[T]he forces of the Qing dynasty and Sichuan province led by the Amban in Tibet were financed by the Qing court and as "foreign forces" not financed by the Tibetan government.. [T]his army was called armed escorts of the Amban in Tibet. Should we ever claim that the sovereignty of the European countries was transferred because of the military presence of the United States[?] Tibet chose its head of state and set its administrative bodies in its own way and ruled in its own way. It had its own army which was commanded by its own government.

This shows that Tibet was a sovereign country. It is not like Croatia or Ukraine which were countries that had lost sovereignty. Even if Tibet lost sovereignty, it still reserved the right to free itself from the suzerain state. From the legal point of view, it is like the Commonwealth and the future European Community.

What is common is that the people identify themselves with the same country (United Kingdom, Europe and China) while at the same time they identify themselves with their respective independent countries. The unity is voluntary and the countries concerned reserve the right to break away from the unity. n the case of Tibet and China, the actual unity of sovereignty was caused by the mutual participation of the supreme authorities. In such a unity, each side became the main condition of the existence of the other side and the word "tremendous" could hardly describe the benefit each side obtained from this unity. The unity was therefore stable and long-lasting. In this unity, the legal status of the two sides was equal even though the real power of the two sides was not the same.

The main reason for all this was that voluntary unity based on common interest accords with the laws of humanity which is the principle of "people's interest is the supreme interest". Nothing could explain this stable unity other than this principle. The will and aspiration of the people which are the main constituting factor of sovereignty would be lost with the loss of the aspiration for self-rule of a certain portion of the people.

Relations between Tibet and China were established on the basis of this unity which did not rely on military occupation and administrative rule but entirely on the aspiration for self-rule and national self-determination.

Up until 1949, China had never oppressed Tibet nor had it forced Tibet to be a subject to China. The two sides had achieved sovereign unity voluntarily. Even today, chances of unity between Tibet and China are much better than that within CIS and the European Community. There is a lot to do to eliminate the evil consequence caused by the suppression and killings of the last 40 years and to return the China-Tibet relationship to the traditional track of normal development. The three pressing tasks are as follows:

First, mutual hatred and discrimination between the Han people and the Tibetans must be rooted out, especially the wrong concept in the minds of the Han about the Tibetans. When I was imprisoned in Tibet (Qinghai), I overheard a lot of conversations which helped me to learn the discrimination and the despise of the Han cadres against Tibetans. Everything that has something to do with Tibet would be looked down upon. It will be extremely difficult to rid the grievance accumulated over 40 years. However, efforts should be made every day to this end. Han chauvinism should be eliminated from all publications.

Second, the government should speed up the development of the market economy in Tibet and establish closer economic relations between the inland areas and the Tibetan market. In the past century, British and Indian commodities have made much headway into Tibetan markets. In the last 40 years or so, the Tibetan market has suffered great damage. The so-called "socialist planned price" fixed for all products of Tibet's mineral resources and livestock, which resembles colonialist exploitation, has caused tremendous loss to the Tibetan economy. Your aid could in no way make up their loss. What's more, most of your aid has been used to support the apparatus of suppression or scientific research of the Han people.

These include government offices of various levels, hospitals, and hotels for the Hans, military facilities, observatories, geothermal power plants which are not what are most needed in the Tibetan economy. [T]he Tibetan people... know that you are not sincere in helping them so that they would not trust you. The decision makers should take Tibet as their own homeland and put the financial assistance into good use to help the economic development of Tibet in a most efficient way.

The various barriers and "managed prices" should be eliminated, Tibetan commodities should have easier access to the inland market and be given preferential prices. Efforts should be made in other areas, too, to improve economic and trade relations between Tibet and other areas of China. This is most important in consolidating Tibet-Han relationship.

Thirdly, the Chinese government should do away the traditional policy of detaining Tibetan religious leaders as hostages. Both religious and non religious Tibetans have a strong aversion to this policy. And this policy could hardly prove your respect of human rights. The Chinese government should eliminate the mentality of the so-called "great Han empire" and sit at the negotiating table with the Dalai Lama. He is concerned about your sincerity, because you failed to win his trust in the past. Therefore you should let him choose the place for negotiation. He should be allowed to return to Lhasa if he wants to do so. All these are reasonable basic conditions. There is nothing here that cannot be understood. There is no reason why you should not agree to all this. Even the appointment of the Dalai Lama's negotiating aides has to be approved by the Chinese government. To postpone the negotiations with these excuses is an indication that your people have no confidence in themselves. They are afraid that all their nonsense would be exposed under the sun should negotiations begin in real sincerity.

Sikkim, Bhutan and Nepal are good examples for a future independent Tibet. If we could do a better job, why should the Tibetans invite sufferings for themselves by breaking away from the unity which has already existed for several centuries[?] The trend of the modern world is that unity is what will happen sooner or later. The advantage of unity overshadows its disadvantage. From what the Dalai Lama has done in recent years, I believe he understands better than I do about the real issue. The Dalai Lama has his own difficulties. We should not push him too hard.

Free Tibet Campaign File - The Special Status of Tibet

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I find you Indians like to call others communist,good job
Uighurs aren't locals of Urumqis,the locals are Mongols,you looser
Also,not minorities are same,I'm an ethnic Manchu,I never felt I have trouble with Hans,I think most Huis,Mongols and Zhuangs are same to me,you want to make minorities aren't Chinese,good job
You know nothing of history,you looser

Another canard.

I live in a Communist State. Fortunately, the remainder of India is a democracy, and while they the Communists are reprehensible, they are controlled.

It matters not what you are. You have to coexist if you know what is good for you.

If you think you are a Manchu and you want to be one and show it like the Tibetans, then you might as well walk into a rehabilitation camp!

I am no loser, I know history, but I am not a running dog, to use the Chinese Communist favourite epithet!


Remember, I live in a Communist State in the Indian democracy and so I know all the pet phrases of these repressors of the common man!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I have already indicated to you that to show your loyalty to China (maybe out of being more loyal than the King) that you purposely attempted to obfuscate that Urumchi is the capital of the Uighurs!

Actually, by your logic and historical weirdness, Nepal is China (check article above) and India too (Timur Lame who was a Mongol!)

Take India. It requires a horsewhipping for being so squeamish and wimpish!

It require to learn from China as to how to ensure all is within its realm!

As Musharraf has wisely said, "Sham democracy!

It is time for India to have a totalitarian regime and do what China does!

 

[kvLin]

It is always cool where I am and fresh air in abundance.

Since you infer that you are short of the same, do so as you advice.

Cultural Revolution and Tienanmen Square was as placid as a Queen's At Home?

You would know. I only read from the ''lying'' western media!!

Maybe both never happened and the west was just slandering China!!

I dont mean to switch over to environmental problem in which india doesn't look like an ideal world far away from China.

since you could only make youself childish,instead of constructive, I think it's wasting time to discuss with you.

 

[sahaliyan]

Another canard.

I live in a Communist State. Fortunately, the remainder of India is a democracy, and while they the Communists are reprehensible, they are controlled.

It matter not what you are. You have to coexist if you know what is good for you.

If you think you are a Manchu and you want to be one and show it like the Tibetans, then you might as well walk into a rehabilitation camp!

I am no loser, I know history, but I am not a running dog, to use the Chinese Communist favourite epithet!


Remember, I live in a Communist State in the Indian democracy and so I know all the pet phrases of these repressors of the common man!!

So you think we Chinese are running dogs,you looser,I'm not a supporter of CCP
But you Indians will call all Chinese who don't agree with you communists,
You looser
And do you know the meaning of my surename,you looser?You just a person who think China is always wrong,looser

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I dont mean to switch over to environmental problem in which india doesn't look like an ideal world far away from China.

since you could only make youself childish,instead of constructive, I think it's wasting time to discuss with you.

Of course childish!

You have nothing to offer or counter and so diplomatically retreat.

True Chinese!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

So you think we Chinese are running dogs,you looser,I'm not a supporter of CCP
But you Indians will call all Chinese who don't agree with you communists,
You looser
And do you know the meaning of my surename,you looser?You just a person who think China is always wrong,looser

No Chinese are not running dogs.

You should read carefully.

It is those who are not proud of their lineage and heritage and sell themselves!!

Indians don't call any old nation Communist. Is China not Communist?

What have you to say historian?

No, China is not wrong always,

The Chinese are very industrious and enterprising and it is proved since the Chinese immigrants are taken as the top notch in the US.

I have great regards for the Chinese people, but not for the Communist regime.

The Chinese are a great people.

If the Chinese were a useless effete lot, then they would not have been able to transform a poverty ridden, opium dosed, agrarian country into the GIANT that she is today, challenging the only superpower in the world - the USA.

Neither would they have been able to keep Malaysia secular and not another Islamic fundamentalist country since they control their economy.

Hey, my beef is not with the Chinese people. It is with the repressive Commies!!!

Chinese indeed are a great lot and God Bless them!

 

[ak56]

Guys pleaes stop fighting over thing which nobody knows.

China is a communist country and not a democracy like us, and they dont allow people to take photograph of what happened there.

So the truth is, there was some violence, but nobody in this forum, including the chinese dont know the level or violence that happened it tibet.

The western media should be criticized for publishing fake pictures. But the concerns of tibetians should be addressed before it becomes a terrorist platform. This is not good for us, we being their allies. China does not want an unstable region like Bangladesh/Baloch for us or Kashmir for India.

I wish the govt's gives greater autonomy to tibetians, who are willing that the defence sector remain with the chinese. This is a good gesture, and its the right time chinese make peace before the world take undue advantage of the conditions.

Kindly request the friends in this forum to discuss this issue carefully.