MBT 3000/ Al Haider reviews, etc.

[HRM YANG]

should the basis for our new tanks be based upon the russian type 14 i mean if you look at it it does look pretty sophisticated that plus a crew of minimum 3 or 2 .I t should be at least the base for our future tanks.
But no Chinese copy.

I think no need a long time T14 will be copied by China , that unmanned canon tower is indigenously superior so I think next China MBT will not be the of Type 99A3, but a Unmanned tower on a brand new chassis. A concept(prototype), at least, will give its presence within 3 years.

 

[kaonalpha]

Yeah but the problem is Russia has refused to give it to china . So no hope of reverse engineering it.

I think no need a long time T14 will be copied by China , that unmanned canon tower is indigenously superior so I think next China MBT will not be the of Type 99A3, but a Unmanned tower on a brand new chassis. A concept(prototype), at least, will give its presence within 3 years.

 

[Arsalan]

should the basis for our new tanks be based upon the russian type 14 i mean if you look at it it does look pretty sophisticated that plus a crew of minimum 3 or 2 .I t should be at least the base for our future tanks.
But no Chinese copy.

no it should not be and it would not be,,,,
PA is very mush satisfied with AK and will like to build upon that. I am quite hopeful that we will lots of component similarities between any new development and the existing AK-1 fleet.

 

[kaonalpha]

no it should not be and it would not be,,,,
PA is very mush satisfied with AK and will like to build upon that. I am quite hopeful that we will lots of component similarities between any new development and the existing AK-1 fleet.

But there no confermation from HIT from all we know we might be making a tank somewhere in Dara adam khel

 

[Dazzler]

should the basis for our new tanks be based upon the russian type 14 i mean if you look at it it does look pretty sophisticated that plus a crew of minimum 3 or 2 .I t should be at least the base for our future tanks.
But no Chinese copy.

T-14 is still pretty much a hyped piece of machinery, we dont know much about what it has new apart of a remote control turret and Crew In Hull concept. Thats just about it. however, i am truly disappointed it still has the same 125mm smoothbore gun, thought it is based on the 2A86 gun which is a pretty powerful gun with a decent length of 55 caliber. Should be at least on par with the L55 120m smoothbore in raw power and chamber pressures if not more. i was expecting something in the league of 135-50mm time time around though.

however, the thing, no matter how radical they claim it to be, still has a long way to go so i reserve judgement for now.

 

[Amber Ali]

Nice Tanks!

 

[Zarvan]

AK-2 Slow production rate means Pakistan is in hurry to fillup it's stock and retire old tank. Orginally AK2 was to be unveiled in dec 2014 IDEAS but it got delayed upto 2016. This is where Haider steps in

AK-2 is not to replace likes of Type 59 and Type 69

 

[The Terminator]

is it cost effective and logistic friendly to have 2 separate MBTs being produced and maintained simultaneously? As Pakistan have not much spare $$$$$$$ to waste them in 2 parallel armor projects with minor differences between them!

If Alkhalid is around 50 tons category and Alhaider 60 ton+ or so then it makes sense to me

Alkhalid is their prime worry for many reasons..

Quite advanced FCS (multi process FCS in AK 1)
UNKNOWN type composite armour and ERA
BMS and netcentric warfare capability
Lethal ammo and ecs
Excellent engine+transmission combo makes it a standout performer in desert and plains.

For those who don't know, FCS, armour and netcentric warfare capability in AK 1 is enhanced by magnitude when compared to baseline AK.

Compared to this, the Indian t-90s falls short in these parameter s:

* obsolete simple FCS
* limited battlefield awareness
* ecs issues
* thermal imager not available on some of the fleet
No BMS on t-90s
* obsolete ammo with questionable HEAT only capability, no modern apfsds
* no all round hunter killer ability for multiple target engagement

* no panoramic sight for all round awareness
* limited datalink with intercom only communication

Lastly, there is no auto tracking in Indian t-90 fleet UNLESS they go for the MS version which has LIMITED tracking function for maingun only, unlike in AK with main gun and remote control hmg both have auto tracking available.

Vt-4 was tested for replacements but the team was not impressed with performance. It is at best on par with AK 1 with no other advantages apart of slightly powerful engine.

Cleverly, HIT has tweaked the 6td-2 with new torgue convertor for faster accelerations which compensates the performance difference.

The entire PA fleet is using components, subsystems and FCS modeled on AK FCS system. This includes the type 85, t-80ud, Alzarrars.

so according to u india's T90 bhishma tanks are too much inferior to our AlKahlid tanks. so why pakistan going to upgraded alkhalid or alhaider tanks etc. just for fancy shopping for our army

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Nice tank. Liked the design.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

AK-2 is not to replace likes of Type 59 and Type 69

Then what might replace these?

 

[Zarvan]

Then what might replace these?

For them we are testing MBT -3000

 

[kaonalpha]

Then what might replace these?

Som chinese light tank maybe we are'nt arabs that wecan buy type 10 or leapord 2 tanks

 

[alimobin memon]

The members in defence.pk forum are just in rush even before army to see AK2. Do we really need an AK2 tank ? Al khalid is already a balanced tank And AK1 is an upgrade. the only reason VT4 Pakistan is considering is the slow production rate of tanks in Pakistan. Seriously tank weight is not a unit to compare tanks performance If there is really something to add better than Al khalid is AK2 only if it has next gen avionics which 3rd generation tanks dont have. Modern tanks are equipping radar systems to their tanks for example. Tanks are good weapons and AK is a fine job.

I am pretty sure the major reason behind Al Haider is the availability of french parts for Ak too so pakistan is looking for a tank that comes in same category but has no issue of parts Al Haider seems to do the job.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

For them we are testing MBT -3000

MBT -3000 is not Haider?

If you are correct then PA is going to replace light tank with heavy. There seems to be some problem.

What I remember reading is that Pakistan Army has to use tanks in many difficult areas where they can not use a single type due to the topography. It is also reported that Pakistan Army had to ask HIT to reinforce Al-Zarar's so that they can be used in the Zarb-e Azb. Al-Khalid was not adequate.

Al-Khalid was not accepted by Saudi Arabia because they found the engine under powered to work in the Desert environment and they also wanted it to be in the range or 60-65 tons.

In Ideas 2015 China did show some light tanks which were capable of being airlifted to high altitude areas, These tanks are to be used by China on the South Eastern areas.

The members in defence.pk forum are just in rush even before army to see AK2. Do we really need an AK2 tank ? Al khalid is already a balanced tank And AK1 is an upgrade. the only reason VT4 Pakistan is considering is the slow production rate of tanks in Pakistan. Seriously tank weight is not a unit to compare tanks performance If there is really something to add better than Al khalid is AK2 only if it has next gen avionics which 3rd generation tanks dont have. Modern tanks are equipping radar systems to their tanks for example. Tanks are good weapons and AK is a fine job.

I am pretty sure the major reason behind Al Haider is the availability of french parts for Ak too so pakistan is looking for a tank that comes in same category but has no issue of parts Al Haider seems to do the job.

There was a possibility to get AL-Khalid 2 to have Turkish parts but the only drawback was Turkey was insisting Pakistan to buy the Altay tank but it was expensive and HIT was unable to manufacture it. There is also an other problem Altay also uses a Japanese engine which was not allowed for export to Pakistan. This was the reason Pakistan wanted to buy the 1700hp engine from Ukraine but that even has not matured till date. If this engine is sold to Pakistan then it would not require any other type than Al-Khalid.

 

[Zarvan]

MBT -3000 is not Haider?

If you are correct then PA is going to replace light tank with heavy. There seems to be some problem.

What I remember reading is that Pakistan Army has to use tanks in many difficult areas where they can not use a single type due to the topography. It is also reported that Pakistan Army had to ask HIT to reinforce Al-Zarar's so that they can be used in the Zarb-e Azb. Al-Khalid was not adequate.

Al-Khalid was not accepted by Saudi Arabia because they found the engine under powered to work in the Desert environment and they also wanted it to be in the range or 60-65 tons.

In Ideas 2015 China did show some light tanks which were capable of being airlifted to high altitude areas, These tanks are to be used by China on the South Eastern areas.


There was a possibility to get AL-Khalid 2 to have Turkish parts but the only drawback was Turkey was insisting Pakistan to buy the Altay tank but it was expensive and HIT was unable to manufacture it. There is also an other problem Altay also uses a Japanese engine which was not allowed for export to Pakistan. This was the reason Pakistan wanted to buy the 1700hp engine from Ukraine but that even has not matured till date. If this engine is sold to Pakistan then it would not require any other type than Al-Khalid.

MBT-3000 is Al Haider