Mazagon Dock Ltd likely to get fresh orders after Scorpene

[anant_s]

pipvav is a front runner for P 75i project.
now it looks like Mazgaon will make P 75 + following order subs. Pipvav likely to get P 75i orders. Cochin shipyard IAC 1 and IAC 2. Garden Reach shipbuilders figrates and Destroyers. L&T and Vizag facility SSN and SSBN.
that looks like a roadmap for future as @AUSTERLITZ has mentioned about diversification and distribution of work.
and its a smart move. this way they'll keep order books filled while retaining the project management and technical skills intact that will ensure timely completion of projects while retaining competencies.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This is a very good option indeed. The only question is, are the scorpenes good enough? If the navy thinks so, then more indeed makes sense as its a low hanging fruit. For all you know building a new line for the follow on class may take close to a decade. In the meantime scorpenes will make the numbers for the obsolescence of the Russian subs.

The scorpene is better than the older agosta due to slightly better diving depth,more modern and extra sonars,better stealth due to being complete new design than upgradation of old system and newer generation of heavyweight torpedoes in black shark,and better weapons load.

 

[Stag112]

pipvav is a front runner for P 75i project.
now it looks like Mazgaon will make P 75 + following order subs. Pipvav likely to get P 75i orders. Cochin shipyard IAC 1 and IAC 2. Garden Reach shipbuilders figrates and Destroyers. L&T and Vizag facility SSN and SSBN.
that looks like a roadmap for future as @AUSTERLITZ has mentioned about diversification and distribution of work.
and its a smart move. this way they'll keep order books filled while retaining the project management and technical skills intact that will ensure timely completion of projects while retaining competencies.

Also from a risk reduction POV. The new line at Pipavav is a huge risk, another line churning out modern subs at Mazgaon gives us some protection indeed.

 

[Abingdonboy]

NEW DELHI: Mumbai-based Mazagon Dock Ltd, which is building six Scorpene submarines, is likely to get a follow-on order for "some more" of these vessels.

The first Scorpene class submarine -- Kalvari, that was undocked in April -- will shortly proceed for sea trials.

It is likely to be commissioned in September next year and, thereafter, the remaining five submarines will follow every nine months as per a revised schedule. The sources said that MDL is likely to order for more as the government does not want to waste the skill and infrastructure that has developed at the shipyard.

While the first four are conventional submarines, the last two are to be equipped with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, which will enable the vessels to stay underwater for a longer duration.

Sources said that any additional submarines are likely to have AIP technology. Scorpene submarines are being built in partnership with French firm, DCNS.

Mazagon Dock Ltd likely to get fresh orders after Scorpene - The Economic Times

Now that is some noteworthy news!!

I'm thinking it will be 3 only but would love to be proven wrong,4-6 more would be ideal. Now MDL is up and running on the Scorpene they are sure to churn the follow-on units out in a rapid manner.

 

[anant_s]

Also from a risk reduction POV. The new line at Pipavav is a huge risk, another line churning out modern subs at Mazgaon gives us some protection indeed.

well u could say that but i beg to differ. the reason here is that submarine programs are running way behind schedule and hence while it is undeniable that MDL has gained a good expertise in the area, we need to develop one more site for future subs. unless there is a parallel production line going, its very hard to see how Navy will get its sub fleet numbers met in its future plans.
So move to involve another novice shipyard may seem risky but IMHO its an investment in future. and this will come in handy when mid term overhaul of subs will comeup in future.

 

[Stag112]

well u could say that but i beg to differ. the reason here is that submarine programs are running way behind schedule and hence while it is undeniable that MDL has gained a good expertise in the area, we need to develop one more site for future subs. unless there is a parallel production line going, its very hard to see how Navy will get its sub fleet numbers met in its future plans.
So move to involve another novice shipyard may seem risky but IMHO its an investment in future. and this will come in handy when mid term overhaul of subs will comeup in future.

I agree with you we need the new line. But risks inherent in building that line somewhat will mitigated by keeping the MDL line open. Hope that is clear.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@PARIKRAMA PSG was scarily accurate about this- I remember him foretelling this about 6 (or more) months ago.

 

[Agent_47]

So this officially puts MDL out of reckoning for P-75I. With Pipavav busy upgrading Kilo Class, we are probably left with only HSL with ability to make new Subs.

But is there any indication that Pipavav will actually be part of the upgradation of kilo class other than an Mou?

 

[45'22']

I know,chances of surviving know how will me more if we divercify our shipbuilding centeres. You see almost all frigates,destroyers & submarines are building in mazagon. In the event of war Mumbai will be the prime target,due to proximity Pakistan's ballistic missiles can carry out pinpoint strike on Mumbai,which is not the case with Cochin,vizag & Kolkata. The more the distance more will be the navigation error for ballistic missiles & also chance of shooting down enemy missiles with our ABMs are more.


Cochin shipyards desperately waiting for orders,they are unable to utilise there full capacity. & I think pipav also running like that.

Isnt cochin shipyards working on vishal atm?

 

[kaykay]

Great news. I guess India will go for 2-3 more.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Great.
Just yesterday I replied somewhere that we should do this and today, this news.

 

[$@rJen]

India may order 4 more Scorpene submarines : Sources
PublishedOctober 6, 2015 | Byadmin

SOURCE: EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE

France may get further orders to supply conventional submarines, in order to meet the Indian Navy’s critical requirement of underwater capability. According to sources in South Block, the French firm DCNS, which is already building six Scorpene submarines in partnership with Mumbai-based Mazagaon Dock Limited, is likely to get a follow-on order for more such submarines. The Indian Navy has been struggling to maintain its depleting submarine fleet, especially after a spate of accidents last year.

India’s submarine strength is now officially down to 15, which includes nine Kilo class (EKMs), four German-designed HDWs (SSKs) and one Akula class nuclear-powered submarine (SSN) on lease from Russia (since 2012) and the INS Arihant, the country’s first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, which is undergoing various levels of sea trials.

The defence PSU MDL, which is developing the Scorpene-class submarine Kalvari, undocked in April this year, is carrying out sea trials. It is likely to be commissioned in September next year and thereafter, the remaining five submarines will follow every nine months, as per the revised schedule. The remaining five boats of Project 75 would be delivered to the Navy by 2020 and would form the core of the Navy’s submarine arm for the next two decades.

While the first four are conventional submarines, the last two are to be equipped with the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, which will enable the vessel to stay underwater for longer. The process of acquiring six more submarines under Project 75 is yet to kick off, as the government is still in the process of finalising the shipyard.

 

[zambino]

@PARIKRAMA PSG was scarily accurate about this- I remember him foretelling this about 6 (or more) months ago.

Exactly he is right. But he also said that navy will scrap 75i. What about that?:-S

 

[kaykay]

So India will finally have a large fleet of attack submarines though It will take some time...
6+4 scorpenes.
6 P-75I with VLS for Brahmos/Nirbhay.
6 Indigenous SSNs.
2/3 Russian SSNs on lease.
I am only counting projects which is already announced or under process.

@PARIKRAMA PSG was scarily accurate about this- I remember him foretelling this about 6 (or more) months ago.

Well Saurav Jha had said something like this too in past. He predicted that navy will go for 3 more scorpenes if I remember correctly.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA PSG was scarily accurate about this- I remember him foretelling this about 6 (or more) months ago.

Well Saurav Jha had said something like this too in past. He predicted that navy will go for 3 more scorpenes if I remember correctly.

Well PSG and SJ both were clear as well as @Abingdonboy, @sancho @Capt.Popeye and many other boarders who had clearly stated that investment of time and money in MDL for Scorpene sub production hardly makes sense if its just 6. I remember Sancho distinctly saying why P75I. It should be either scrapped or separated as 6+6 follow on makes sense. Now its 6+4. But i would still hope its actually 6+4+2(directly from france)
The logic of 2 build in french shipyard is that scorpene induction of 6 at least induction and sea trials of few all will be in 2021 types max. So the follow on assuming it takes an average 4 years for construction at max efficient modular construction mode puts 2025 as beginning of follow on order and a sub every year after that for sea trials. Ths its uptill 2025-28 when we get all 10 subs. Logically if we get 2 from french shipyards directly outside these 4 follow on we can get 2 in between 2021-2025 timeline. This allows us to slowly utilize shishukumar class less and use scorpene class more at least with planned deployment over different zones.
Again i hope IN had thought such a hybrid structure. bcz doing that french side can show work and employment back home too and that allows them to reciprocate the business gesture by trying to get subs out before scheduled timeline..My thoughts perhaps may not be agreeable with many boarders. But business is more of give and take so we should do a bit more smart bargaining.

Exactly he is right. But he also said that navy will scrap 75i. What about that?:-S

Looking at everything i do believe p75I may finally go to Russians. German subs looks a bit difficult as diversifying aircraft as well as sub business both from Russia looks a bit too much. Especially as Russia's involvement in N Sub program especially for the larger SSBNs is already planned. Thus it makes sense to get them on board quickly rather than make them feel left out of the bandwagon. We actually need a submarine which is inbetween the Amur and Yasen class.. Amurs awesomeness and Yasen modern technology. Now question is like 5th gen tech being tried to downstream to MKIs in super sukhoi program then can we get some Yasen class tech in Amur and make it superior then normal Amur class? especially the noise, speed, endurance as well as the capability versus range? Again P75I si going to be a 6+6 or 6+4+2(direct) structure. And it will be a huge cost as it will have the N sub program help cost also build in.

If i would have been PM's advisor i would have talked to Chancellor Angela Merkel for a g2g deal for 3-4 subs of HDW Dolphin Class latest with augmentation in line with with Israel and load up SLCM Nirbhay like Popeye Turbo. No make in india shipyard for this dela directly from Germany and offset investment i the form of renewable energy in smart cities. Again by 2025 we can get these 3-4 subs and one shot having SLCM Nirbhay deployed gives us a boost like never before. This keeps all the players happy and IN can happily retire old sub fleet and concentrate on N sub program carefully and in a planned manner. Keeping Germany happy gives us a big boost too especially since Chancellor Merkel is a very very powerful figure in Euro as of today with Francois Hollande. This kind of deal will make UK PM Cameroon come to India asap to get some deal too which allows us to see what best we can get from UK wih TOT.. Something for IA perhaps..