Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) to Build India’s Next Gen Diesel submarine

[Indischer]

well, when you are doing something for the first time and that too from scratch, it is bound to take more time than the time usually taken by the companies who already have similar kind of production lines...secondly, it is not a conventional sub, its pretty modern Sub.... the tech that is being used is surely not 50 years old....IN is not fool to accept anything less that what is available with the best Navies in the world...

have you seen Chak De India? As coach said, before teaching them hocky, these ppl need to be taught the spirit of team work..similary, MDL is old fashioned govt organization, they lacked team spirit and go getterness....getting hghly complicated work done from them was not an easy task......I learned from friend of mine that more and more contractors are being employed at MDL and the peformace is compared between contractos and permanent staff.. many technical ppl are being trained in foreign countries...so basically, things are being put in place and hopefully we will see the outcome in next few years...

But the ground realities are a bit different mate. 4 of the 6 'most modern' Scorpenes won't be rolling out with AIP, something which 2 of Pakistan's subs already have. The date for rolling out the first sub has been pushed back from June 2015 to September 2016. No other Nation in the World is taking 8 years to build one Diesel-electric sub, that too with ToT!

 

[JohnyD]

But the ground realities are a bit different mate. 4 of the 6 'most modern' Scorpenes won't be rolling out with AIP, something which 2 of Pakistan's subs already have. The date for rolling out the first sub has been pushed back from June 2015 to September 2016. No other Nation in the World is taking 8 years to build one Diesel-electric sub, that too with ToT!

well, as far as AIP is concerned, it was not part of the orginal contract signed by IN & DCNS....the primary objective was to promote domestic ship building industry and to revive MDL...India is not so keen on AIP for diesel subs at this moment as eventually it is going to have fleet of nuke subs so it will be waste of money if we ask DCNS to provide that tech....furthermore, it seems DRDO is confident that they can come up with indigenous AIP in couple of years...

regarding 8 years to build one Diesel-electric sub, well but subsequent machines wont take 8 years once the production line is up and running....see how much time the US and big bunch of developed countries are taking to build one operational F-35.....!... dont forget, two-3 decades ago bullock carts were commonly seen on road in Indian metro cities including Mumbai...so lets not compare our industrial capability with others...will get there but it will take time...

 

[Indischer]

well, as far as AIP is concerned, it was not part of the orginal contract signed by IN & DCNS....the primary objective was to promote domestic ship building industry and to revive MDL...India is not so keen on AIP for diesel subs at this moment as eventually it is going to have fleet of nuke subs so it will be waste of money if we ask DCNS to provide that tech....furthermore, it seems DRDO is confident that they can come up with indigenous AIP in couple of years...

regarding 8 years to build one Diesel-electric sub, well but subsequent machines wont take 8 years once the production line is up and running....see how much time the US and big bunch of developed countries are taking to build one operational F-35.....!... dont forget, two-3 decades ago bullock carts were commonly seen on road in Indian metro cities including Mumbai...so lets not compare our industrial capability with others...will get there but it will take time...

The blame for this glacial speed of sub constructing lies squarely on MDL. Also, these are not the first subs constructed atMDL. Two of the Shishumar class subs were also constructed there. Hence, they already had some basic infrastructure at hand, and yet have delayed the project so long.

The subsequent Subs will take a year each, assuming there are no further delays.

Regarding AIP, it's incorrect to assume that the Navy doesn't feel the tech isn't needed. The DCNS AIP was not taken only because DRDO had assured that their AIP would be ready in time for the subs. Also, SSBNs cannot replace SSKs, and what more SSBNs are more noisy than SSKs, owing to their nuclear reactor pumps operating continually. I can assure you that hte Navy is badly in need of Scorpenes more than the Arihants.

 

[JohnyD]

The blame for this glacial speed of sub constructing lies squarely on MDL. Also, these are not the first subs constructed atMDL. Two of the Shishumar class subs were also constructed there. Hence, they already had some basic infrastructure at hand, and yet have delayed the project so long.

The subsequent Subs will take a year each, assuming there are no further delays.

Regarding AIP, it's incorrect to assume that the Navy doesn't feel the tech isn't needed. The DCNS AIP was not taken only because DRDO had assured that their AIP would be ready in time for the subs. Also, SSBNs cannot replace SSKs, and what more SSBNs are more noisy than SSKs, owing to their nuclear reactor pumps operating continually. I can assure you that hte Navy is badly in need of Scorpenes more than the Arihants.

yes, MDL had done it almost 20 yrs ago and over the period of times they almost lost all the technical know-how they had gained from Germans because there were no production line..this was the primary reason why IN/Gov went for scorepan deal, we wanted MDL to reach its potential and past glory but as I mentioned above, they needed an overhauling....I think we have done the right think by ensuring scorpion is built only in India right from the beginning unlike Shishukumar class subs....we need long running production line to sustain and transfer the tech know-how to next gen...so its a systematic investment for better future….

regarding nuke subs nosier than AIP equipped diesel sub, I guess it can be contested and moreover nuke sub has dozens of advantages over diesel sub even with AIP…but let’s not get into that..

If this news is true, then see the confidence that IN and Govt has shown towards MDL by announcing it as the primary contractor for next gen sub….MDL's good work must be noticed and acknowledged by IN!

 

[Indischer]

yes, MDL had done it almost 20 yrs ago and over the period of times they almost lost all the technical know-how they had gained from Germans because there were no production line..this was the primary reason why IN/Gov went for scorepan deal, we wanted MDL to reach its potential and past glory but as I mentioned above, they needed an overhauling....I think we have done the right think by ensuring scorpion is built only in India right from the beginning unlike Shishukumar class subs....we need long running production line to sustain and transfer the tech know-how to next gen...so its a systematic investment for better future….

regarding nuke subs nosier than AIP equipped diesel sub, I guess it can be contested and moreover nuke sub has dozens of advantages over diesel sub even with AIP…but let’s not get into that..

If this news is true, then see the confidence that IN and Govt has shown towards MDL by announcing it as the primary contractor for next gen sub….MDL's good work must be noticed and acknowledged by IN!

They have no other choice now, do they? After pouring in lots of funds at MDL, they cannot renege and award the contract to another shipbuilder now.

 

[JohnyD]

They have no other choice now, do they? After pouring in lots of funds at MDL, they cannot renege and award the contract to another shipbuilder now.

they do have choice...they can ask DCNS to deliver 3 of them....but I guess you are not getting the point here....Indian Navy is seriously not interested in off d shelf stuff like Indian Airforce and Army...IN is best known for its love towards indigenization...we are not at war, we dont need to rush....we need to buld our local industry, other things can wait.

 

[Indischer]

they do have choice...they can ask DCNS to deliver 3 of them....but I guess you are not getting the point here....Indian Navy is seriously not interested in off d shelf stuff like Indian Airforce and Army...IN is best known for its love towards indigenization...we are not at war, we dont need to rush....we need to buld our local industry, other things can wait.

I do get the point that local industry needs to be strengthened, but not like this! Such delays only point out the fact that we're not ready to even absorb the technology provided under ToT.

I can understand the Kolkata class being held up/delayed. I can also understand the first subs rolling out without AIP. But 8 years just to construct and outfit a Hull AFTER ToT?? What MDL is demonstrating is sheer incompetence.

 

[JohnyD]

dude, initially(after beginning the work) there were some issues between DCNS and IN/MDL about the level of TOT....if you remember, govmt had to step in to resolve that matter....and my dear friend, dont forget DCNS is a French company....you know, German and Japanese start the project keeping an eye on closure date BUT French starts the project keeping an eye on beggining of another project!! so the blame is entirely not MDLs.

 

[Mitro]

If DRDO don"t deliver AIP in 2 years then the netas will get oppertunity to make more comission in AIP from dcns and get will be same like agosta90b mesma.

Its height of stupidity from GOI that when you are negotiating the sub price why you dont negotiate with AIP .
In history of DRdO have they delivered any thing on time.

 

[faithfulguy]

No 1 immigrant group that commits welfare fraud in the US is by you chinese

I am not into massage parlours, it is what you chinese are known for in the US along with selling your women in the sex trade in the US for decades and decades now ( documented history in the US of your people). How many of your siblings do you have working per night?

you will be ignored again for being human trash.

 

[spectribution]

As long as DRDO is involved, the IN will have to wait......

We have made a Nuke sub and a workable 14 day AIP unit. Can your agencies boast the same?

I do get the point that local industry needs to be strengthened, but not like this! Such delays only point out the fact that we're not ready to even absorb the technology provided under ToT.

I can understand the Kolkata class being held up/delayed. I can also understand the first subs rolling out without AIP. But 8 years just to construct and outfit a Hull AFTER ToT?? What MDL is demonstrating is sheer incompetence.

How can you absorb TOT without infrastructure? Using a sponge? The 8 years went into infrastructure and Anthony's bullshit dove diplomacy.

 

[Indischer]

We have made a Nuke sub and a workable 14 day AIP unit. Can your agencies boast the same?



How can you absorb TOT without infrastructure? Using a sponge? The 8 years went into infrastructure and Anthony's bullshit dove diplomacy.

We already had the infrastructure necessary to build a sub like the Shishumar class. 2 were built at MDL. And the scorpene sub hulls aren't some sort of revolutionary new design. Major improvements are in outfitting newer subsystems, which are mostly subcontracted.

 

[spectribution]

We already had the infrastructure necessary to build a sub like the Shishumar class. 2 were built at MDL. And the scorpene sub hulls aren't some sort of revolutionary new design. Major improvements are in outfitting newer subsystems, which are mostly subcontracted.

If you dont use a car for 20 years do you expect it it to roar into action one fine day? Hulls were made in 4-6 years standard time. Congress BS delayed by 2 years .

 

[kurup]

We already had the infrastructure necessary to build a sub like the Shishumar class. 2 were built at MDL. And the scorpene sub hulls aren't some sort of revolutionary new design. Major improvements are in outfitting newer subsystems, which are mostly subcontracted.

If you dont use a car for 20 years do you expect it it to roar into action one fine day? Hulls were made in 4-6 years standard time. Congress BS delayed by 2 years .

AFAIK , in case of Shishumar class we mere assembled of kits provided by HDW .

In case of Scorpene we are producing it from scratch .

Both are completely different and the latter approach is time consuming as MDL did not had the necessary technological expertise to absorb the scorpene TOT .

 

[spectribution]

AFAIK , in case of Shishumar class we mere assembled of kits provided by HDW .

In case of Scorpene we are producing it from scratch .

Both are completely different and the latter approach is time consuming as MDL did not had the necessary technological expertise to absorb the scorpene TOT .

But just imagine now! Tech and infra present! Meaning P 75 I will be finished in record time! More so under Modi government.