Mass protests sweep Gilgit Baltistan

[Armstrong]

am not really sure I understood what you are saying here.
total of 7500 odd people were recruited in that rally if I remember correctly. I would presume most were muslims as it was done in muslim majority areas. I am not claiming all 7500 are muslims and even if they are that wont even dent the percentage in a big army.

What I'm trying to say is that if the entire Indian Army contains no more than 60,000 odd Muslims that would mean that either Muslims aren't joining or they aren't being selected.

Now if we, quite logically, assume that those 60,000 Muslims are going to be distributed across the units within the Indian Army and would be hailing from different States within the Union of India, how can one possibly conclude that a lot of Muslims from Kashmir are joining the Indian Army if Muslims from across India aren't joining that much and the ones who do join aren't from any one State anyhow ?

I'd imagine that those 7500 are again Hindus and Sikhs joining up with a handful of Muslims amidst them as is evidenced by the atrociously low number of Muslims in the Indian Army as a whole !

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

As people of disputed territory they have our support.

Somebody give this woman a cookie!!

 

[M. Sarmad]

Gilgit-Baltistan Dharna: Awami Action Committee and govt team meeting today
Apr 25, 2014 PAMIR TIMES



Islamabad, April 24: A three-member delegation of the Awami Action Committee has reached Islamabad today to hold dialogue with the five-member committee formed under the leadership of Federal Minister Chaudhary Barjees Tahir.

The dialogue will focus on resolution of the strike that has paralyzed life in the Gilgit-Baltistan for the last 11 days.

The Awami Action Committee has mobilized around a hundred thousand people in the Gilgit-Baltistan region and currently two huge, and yet very peaceful, strikes are going on in Skardu and Gilgit, at the Yadgar-e-Shuhada and the historical Garhi Bagh. A couple of days back thousands of people from Diamer, Hunza-Nagar, Ghizar and Astore had marched into Gilgit to join the main strike camp. The camp in Skardu is also being attended by tens of thousands of people for the last 11 days. The Awami Action Committee is an alliance of almost two dozen religious and progressive organizations, including federal political parties.

The government committee, which has former Advisor Attaullah Shahab, GB Council member Amjad Hussain Advocate, Muhammad Ibrahim and Minister Bashir Khan, was formed on Wednesday to make recommendations for resolving the longest strike of the region’s history. People had cast doubts on the authorities of the committee to take decisions, but Attaullah Shahab yesterday told the media that the prime minister has given full authority to the committee.

The government committee held a meeting on Thursday to discuss the issues. The meeting was also attended by GB Chief Minister Syed Mehdi Shah and Federal Minister Chaudhary Barjees Tahir.

Barjees Tahir later addressed a press conference in which he said that compared to Punjab the people of Pakistan are getting cheaper wheat. He said that the subsidy has not been withdrawn. “73% of the subsidy still remains”, he said. The Federal Minister also said that the government plans to invest billions of rupees in the Gilgit-Baltistan region, which will usher into a new era of economic prosperity and development.

It is pertinent to note that the subsidy had been provided by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in the early 70s on 19 items, including PIA fares and petroleum products. However, the subsidies have gradually been withdrawn and at the moment the people of Gilgit-Baltistan were getting subsidy on wheat only which is also gradually being withdrawn. There are reports that the government planned to increase the price of wheat to 26 rupees per kilogram in three years, according to an agreement signed in June 2011.

The Awami Action Committee emerged in reaction to the gradual increase of the wheat price between 2011 and 2014, when the price of wheat reached 16 rupees per kilogramme from 8 rupees. This hundred percent increase in the wheat price angered the people and they gathered on the platform of the Awami Action Committee, which developed a 9-point charter of demands and started a rigorous mobilization campaign throughout the region. Sensing the public pressure, the government decreased the price per kilogram of wheat to 14, reducing two rupees per kg. However, this did not resonate well with the Awami Action Committee and the movement started which is now at its peak.

In this background, the two committees will meet Friday to discuss the issues on the charter of demands and reach an agreement to end the situation in a peaceful manner.

Meanwhile, the Awami Action Committee has said that if their Charter of Demands is not accepted, they will announce the “fifth stage” of the movement after Friday prayers today. They have not clearly defined what the so-called “fifth stage” might be.

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Day nine: AAC’s protest over wheat prices sees renewed vigour
By Shabbir Mir
Published: April 24, 2014
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Convoys from Skardu and Astore valleys reached the protest camp, injecting new life into the movement. PHOTO: FILE

GILGIT:
Agitation across Gilgit-Baltistan (G-B) over the wheat subsidy gained momentum as delegations from other parts of the region reached Gilgit on Wednesday.

Convoys from Skardu and Astore valleys reached the protest camp at Ghari Bagh by Tuesday night, injecting new life into the movement which entered its ninth day on Wednesday. They stayed in the camp overnight while residents extended hospitality by providing them food and water.

Well-fed and rested, the speakers kept a crowd of nearly 20,000 engaged. They criticised the government, bureaucracy and ministers for being unable to resolve their issues and even demanded resignations from ministers, saying they have failed the public time and again over the past four years.

“Listen to us our so-called rulers!” shouted one of the leaders of Awami Action Committee (AAC) from the crowd. Amid loud jeers, he added: “We are not going to withdraw at any cost. Subsidy is our right and we will get it by hook or by crook.”

“This crowd is a referendum against [Chief Minister] Mehdi Shah’s government,” maintained Sultan Raees, another leader of AAC, adding Shah should either accept their demands or step down.

Meanwhile, shops and markets in the city were forcibly closed down by a group of people claiming to be representatives of AAC, an alliance of around 23 religious and political groups formed earlier this year to fight for lower wheat prices.

A show of unity

In an unprecedented show of unity and harmony, Sunnis and Shias prayed Maghrib (evening prayers) alongside each other at Ghari Bagh on Tuesday.

“Let us pray this unity stays and we succeed in achieving our goals,” said Maulana Khalil Qasmi as he led the prayers for which the AAC members and protesters had taken a break from their demonstration.

Published in The Express Tribune, April 24th, 2014.


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Agitation over wheat prices: Protesters pour into Gilgit as AAC ultimatum ends – The Express Tribune

 

[livingdead]

What I'm trying to say is that if the entire Indian Army contains no more than 60,000 odd Muslims that would mean that either Muslims aren't joining or they aren't being selected.

Now if we, quite logically, assume that those 60,000 Muslims are going to be distributed across the units within the Indian Army and would be hailing from different States within the Union of India, how can one possibly conclude that a lot of Muslims from Kashmir are joining the Indian Army if Muslims from across India aren't joining that much and the ones who do join aren't from any one State anyhow ?

I'd imagine that those 7500 are again Hindus and Sikhs joining up with a handful of Muslims amidst them as is evidenced by the atrociously low number of Muslims in the Indian Army as a whole !

lolz, the atrocious lower number is due to fact that majority of muslims live in bihar and UP who dont join armed forces or any govt job. Kashmiri muslims consist of very tiny population among total population of muslims. (138 million). All skewed stats are due to that simple fact (poverty especially).
Kerala muslims for example have completely different social indicators.
The low number of muslims in army is due to continuous low recruitment, they were never targetted as a group, like say gurkha, nor are they traditional soldier castes / villages/ families.
That cannot be extrapolated to assume that specific rally targetting youths in the valley (one time event) had mostly non muslim recruitment.
In absence of any real data though (break up in terms of religion in that specific rally), you can believe whatever you want, and I can believe whatever I wish.

 

[Armstrong]

lolz, the atrocious lower number is due to fact that majority of muslims live in bihar and UP who dont join armed forces or any govt job. Kashmiri muslims consist of very tiny population among total population of muslims. (138 million). All skewed stats are due to that simple fact (poverty especially).
Kerala muslims for example have completely different social indicators.
The low number of muslims in army is due to continuous low recruitment, they were never targetted as a group, like say gurkha, nor are they traditional soldier castes / villages/ families.
That cannot be extrapolated to assume that specific rally targetting youths in the valley (one time event) had mostly non muslim recruitment.
In absence of any real data though (break up in terms of religion in that specific rally), you can believe whatever you want, and I can believe whatever I wish.

What kind of an argument is that ? I've read similarly appalling stats about Indian Muslim representation within the Bureaucracy & other organs of the State.

Its like us saying that because the Baluch weren't specifically targeted and the traditional recruitment areas have been the Potowhar region of Punjab and some parts of KP they wouldn't be that much in the Army when in 2011 they were proportionate to their Population !

Besides how can one say that Muslims aren't joining the army due to continuous low recruitment on one hand and present the argument that one shouldn't believe that most of the recruits were Non Muslims on the other ?

 

[livingdead]

What kind of an argument is that ? I've read similarly appalling stats about Indian Muslim representation within the Bureaucracy & other organs of the State.

Its like us saying that because the Baluch weren't specifically targeted and the traditional recruitment areas have been the Potowhar region of Punjab and some parts of KP they wouldn't be that much in the Army when in 2011 they were proportionate to their Population !

I did not mean to say it is right or its issue with muslims. Its definitely govts job to bring balance and have fair representation of all communities as much as possible. One cannot force anybody to join armed forces but am sure they can do something about it, say starting a arvertising campaign or going to schools where most muslims live and give talks about army careers (or ask a cleric to issue a fatwa .. ) whatever works.

but you should know a huge number of people join IA as part of tradition and they have so many application for non officer cadre, they simply dont bother to expand to other areas. Many Indian states are underrepresented where as punjab and kerala are overrepresented.

anyway, thats not what we were discussing wrt j&k recruitment. IA did the right thing in targetting youths in disturbed areas and I hope they do so again in future.

 

[M. Sarmad]

پامیر ٹائمز – ایکشن کمیٹی گلگت بلتستان کے ڈیمانڈ منظور نہیں ہوے تو پورے ملک میں احتجاج کریں گے: حیدر عباس رضوی

@fawwaxs @darkinsky @W.11 @Patriots

 

[Armstrong]

I did not mean to say it is right or its issue with muslims. Its definitely govts job to bring balance and have fair representation of all communities as much as possible. One cannot force anybody to join armed forces but am sure they can do something about it, say starting a arvertising campaign or going to schools where most muslims live and give talks about army careers (or ask a cleric to issue a fatwa .. ) whatever works.

but you should know a huge number of people join IA as part of tradition and they have so many application for non officer cadre, they simply dont bother to expand to other areas. Many Indian states are underrepresented where as punjab and kerala are overrepresented.

anyway, thats not what we were discussing wrt j&k recruitment. IA did the right thing in targetting youths in disturbed areas and I hope they do so again in future.

Go make me a cup of Coffee with some Strawberry Cream Puffs !

I have to go to sleep and then wake up again in another hour !

Oi you never told me what you do ?

What do you do ?

 

[KingMamba]

funny that for namesake, Pakistan refuses to integrate GB into its constitution, but does not feel one bit the need to consult the residents of GB when signing away a part of this land to china!

Yes, GB may not be integrated into Pak, but Pakistan sure acts like they own them...at least based on your actions from the 60s..

LOL refuted a million times yet Indians never learn. @Secur was it you who had the link of the agreement of the boundary between Pakistan and China?

 

[livingdead]

Go make me a cup of Coffee with some Strawberry Cream Puffs !

I have to go to sleep and then wake up again in another hour !

Oi you never told me what you do ?

What do you do ?

not telling you coz you will nag me everyday...
here is another news this time bbc...
BBC News - Thousands at Indian Army recruitment rally in Kashmir
you should know thousands of hindus/sikhs (from jammu) gathering in srinagar for army recruitment rally will be a very odd sight.

 

[M. Sarmad]

LOL refuted a million times yet Indians never learn. @Secur was it you who had the link of the agreement of the boundary between Pakistan and China?

By A.G. Noorani

Abstract
The agreement of 1963 is, thus, based on a history that stretched to the 19th century. If India had consulted the records in the spirit as Pakistan did, an accord could have been reached in April 1960. For India, as it did for Pakistan in 1963, the McDonald’s Note of 14 March 1899 provides a key to the resolution of the India-China boundary dispute.


W.F. Van Eekelen, a Dutch diplomat who served in New Delhi and London, delved into the archives in both places to write an excellent study Indian Foreign Policy and the Border Dispute With China (Martinus Nijhoff; The Hague, 1966) concurs with the view that while Pakistan waived claims on maps, China withdrew from 750 square miles (p. 131); (Vide also R.R.V. Prescott; Map of Mainland Asia by Treaty; Melbourne University Press, 1975; p. 230-237).

Dr. B. N. Goswami of the Universities of Calcutta and North Burdwan opined, against the “patriotic” consensus that “to a limited but knowledgeable section of people, the agreement appears to be just and fair to both sides. … Neutral observers do not find much substance in the Indian allegations of Pakistani concessions to China” (B. N. Goswami, Pakistan and China; Allied Publishers; 1971; pp. 89-90).

Global Imbalances, Recovery and the East Asian Response: What We Know and What We Do Not Know, The SINO-PAK Boundary Agreement | Criterion



Also : Sino-Pakistan boundary - - DAWN.COM

 

[Armstrong]

not telling you coz you will nag me everyday...
here is another news this time bbc...
BBC News - Thousands at Indian Army recruitment rally in Kashmir
you should know thousands of hindus/sikhs (from jammu) gathering in srinagar for army recruitment rally will be a very odd sight.

Bataa deiii na yaaar....bataaa deiii !

 

[Peshwa]

You keep missing the point ad homineum because you keep harping on about the number of Kashmiris who showed up to join the very force they claim to hate when the contention isn't whether Kashmiris did or didn't show but weather the Muslims in Kashmir did or didn't show up as the whole call for independence revolves around Muslim Separatism !

Of course the willingness of Kashmiris (muslims) to join the army is important here...it shows their intent in being part of the force of the nation of India...a direct endorsement of the country

Now maybe the assumption you are making is that the 10,000 odd volunteers that showed up were predominantly Hindus or Sikhs..but not muslim
The Kashmir valley is majority Muslim and the recruitment was carried out in Baramulla...a highly sensitive area with overwhelming muslim majority...unless you have proof that muslim volunteers refrained from these recruitment rallies, or even that muslims were a small fraction of this volunteer group...
My point stands!

Indiatoday quoted the Army to have provided these figures in 2006 when asked by the Defense Ministry after the Airforce and the Navy had already provided their figures and I quote 'While the navy and the air force have already provided the data on the number of Muslims in their arms, the army did so only reluctantly after being asked to do so by the Ministry of Defense that it had 29,000 Muslim troops'

Sachar Committee: Congress minority agenda comes under scrutiny : NATION - India Today

And that figure has been quoted numerous times elsewhere from the Guardian to Dawn.

I quote from dawn....

"To make sure that no one would ever again raise that issue, he said the very act of asking the question would be an act of sedition. Another former defence minister, Pranab Mukherjee, stated in 2006 that military recruitment was based on merit and there was no discrimination in the services based on caste or religion. He added that no survey had been conducted to determine the religious identity of the soldiers nor would one be done in the future"

"No official statistics are available on the number of Muslims in the Indian army"

Source:Muslims in Indian army - - DAWN.COM


So Dear Armstrong, please direct me to an official GOI census of the IA that I have tried hard to find on the net, yet have not found a single official source for the claim for the 29,000 numbers except by vague references from "Guardian to Dawn"...
well..in this case Dawn validates my claim..

Even if it were doubled to 60,000 Muslims in the Indian Army and were it to be quite logically spread across units; one had to be absolutely daft to think that Muslims in Kashmir are well-represented in the Indian Army when they couldn't come to more than a few thousand at most in a State/Province with a Muslim population that is closer to 9 million.

Your figures are at this point are shaky at best...your argument loses merit when the very number you base it on is nothing short of pure conjecture....a stellar example of a self fulfilling prophecy

 

[waz]

You think Dogras and Ladakhis will come in droves to attend recruitment drives in Sopore or Ganderbal?

Secondly we don't have a reservation system for Muslims or any other group in the Armed Forces. You can suggest that to Anthony (our Hon'ble Defense Minister) and he will surely lap it up. Once we have that reservation perhaps we have to fire about 85% of the Sikhs, huge number of Buddhists and include Muslims. That would ensure a parallel projection of the general population proportion. Good idea sirjee.

Why wouldn't they? The world over sees recruitment drives where people couldn't get into their local regiments and decide to opt for the next big thing.

I understand the whole reservation thing, but one thing is fairly certain that Muslims do not serve in the numbers proportional to their population.

 

[Multani]

Oi mera prah

Kashmiri cakes

Kashmiri tea

Kashmiri mineral water

Ask chaha Jaan in the picture. Best mineral water ever. Nestle sucks.

Azad Kashmir is also the Sufi Bastion of Pakistan!

Pfft local "Bakry" cakes. Lenotre ka wafer khayein phir samajh aye apko. Chaye pink wali rahne hi dein ap.

Pani manta hun, fresh chashme ka pani is better than nestle.

These cakes are made by British Kashmiris in the businesses in Azad Kashmir. No joke. And they ARE the best cakes in Pakistan, top notch.


Mirpur Zindabad!