Mass Conversion To Christianity: A Case Study Of Chuhra Community In Sialkot District (1880- 1930)

[M. Sarmad]

Most of them have taken these names from a known predominant caste of their area, e.g Khokhar/Bhattis are Rajputs and Sindhu/Gill are Jat.

That's quite possible.

But the point is that as the overlapping of gotras among the Punjabi Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs, Ahirs etc. is quite common, the overlapping of gotras of Chuhras with the gotras of other Punjabi castes indicates that they too are indigenous to this land and they have been living in the same area along with other castes of the area for a long time.

 

[Hamza913]

Punjabi Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs, Ahirs

Ahirs have overlapping gotras with those three?

 

[SIPRA]

There are so similarities between upper caste Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis.

The former claims lower caste Punjabis are migrants from South India while the later calls them migrants from UP/Bihar.

Just wow!! These aboriginals of the land are being called "outsider' by descendants of outsiders.

@RIWWIR @SorryNotSorry @Vikki @Levina @jamahir

My dear sir: I don't enter into useless and futile historical and sociological discussions, as far as the fundamental rights of a person are concerned. To me, all the human beings are fundamentally equal; a person belongs to the land/state, where he is born or naturalized, irrespective of his ancestry and genealogy; and discrimination and bigotry, on any account, is crime against humanity. These social evils should be confronted and resisted. Period.

 

[Nilu Pule]

My dear sir: I don't enter into useless and futile historical and sociological discussions, as far as the fundamental rights of a person are concerned. To me, all the human beings are fundamentally equal; a person belongs to the land/state, where he is born or naturalized, irrespective of his ancestry and genealogy; and discrimination and bigotry, on any account, is crime against humanity. These social evils should be confronted and resisted. Period.

Noted.
Don't call me Sir. I am no knight. And much younger than you.

 

[SIPRA]

Noted.
Don't call me Sir. I am no knight. And much younger than you.

Noted.

 

[Sine Nomine]

That's quite possible.

But the point is that as the overlapping of gotras among the Punjabi Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs, Ahirs etc. is quite common, the overlapping of gotras of Chuhras with the gotras of other Punjabi castes indicates that they too are indigenous to this land and they have been living in the same area along with other castes of the area for a long time.

Over lapping is between Rajputs and Jats,over time many stand alone tribes like Khokhars and Kamboh have been started to be identified with these Clans.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Over lapping is between Rajputs and Jats,over time many stand alone tribes like Khokhars and Kamboh have been started to be identified with these Clans.

Rajputs, Awans, Jats, and Arains, have all 'Khokhar' branch. Kambohs claim Rajput descent but they are very closely related to Arains. Bhatti, Chauhan, Tomar, Panwar, Solanki etc. are common clan names among Gujjars, Rajputs and Jats etc.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Rajputs, Awans, Jats, and Arains, have all 'Khokhar' branch. Kambohs claim Rajput descent but they are very closely related to Arains. Bhatti, Chauhan, Tomar, Panwar, Solanki etc. are common clan names among Gujjars, Rajputs and Jats etc.

Lot of things on Pakistani sides have been mixed with each other.Titles of past have taken shape of casts.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Yes they are. Literally everyone other than Indian nationalists accept this, the evidence is overwhelming.

Maybe in your dreams. There are no 'overwhelming' evidence. But a lot of abrasions. People haven't even figured out completely how IVC began or ended. So many theories, no conclusive proof. Overwhelming evidence are edicts, like I said, bring me one. Not some unilateral dream of Prof. XYZ.

 

[Hamza913]

Maybe in your dreams. There are no 'overwhelming' evidence.

Lmao, you've literally just ignored over 100 years of scholarly consensus.

 

[B.K.N]

these light skinned people came later

From where did they came from

Ancestors of these people most likely belonged to lowest Hindu caste called shodar
Some of them converted to Islam and some became Christians
those who converted to Islam are called mussali and some deendar
The word chura which members here are using for them is considered a derrogatory term for them

 

[Chhatrapati]

Lmao, you've literally just ignored over 100 years of scholarly consensus.

haha you bring only guns no bullets. You couldn't even make sense when you said, Dharmic religions. In your mind it's only Hinduism, but totally ignoring Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism. Nope they are not Indo Aryans. Rather there are no Indo-Aryans, from the beginning. By the time the IVC expired, the mix already happened between the people of the land and the people who migrated (Because there is no evidence anywhere for an invasion that happened).

Do you even know the Kambojas, Gandharis etc... were not the so called Aryan despite being the so called Indo-Aryans? They were called Yavanas. Why? Because first they don't follow vedic traditions. This whole Aryan thing was not at all based on race, because race, it is Black, White, Brown, yellow where white dominate, was a British theory. It holds no water in the vedic tradition.

All they do are compare relatively sounding names say, Indra a vedic deity with antra a Germanic deity, totally ignoring the fact that Indra was also called Satpati, Avasyu and many more. Why would one have many names, because it depends on the forms he took. Not divulging further into all that.

The Aryan which first finds it mention in Vedas, are a term used for Vedic group of people, this extended upto South India. By the way, these happened nearly 3000 years ago and the only evidence of it's existence are hymns. In short, the archaeological evidence of Indo Aryans is corroborated by an Oral tradition.

 

[Hamza913]

but totally ignoring Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism.

They all derive from Hinduism, which came with the Aryans.

there is no evidence anywhere for an invasion that happened

All they do are compare relatively sounding names

It's not just that, the stories are remarkably similar to that of other Indo-European religions. The stories themselves were also originally in Sanskrit poetry. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language. Higher caste Hindus also have a larger portion of ancestry from Europe, and best of all, Hinduism itself literally emerges after the Indo-Aryans came about. There's no getting around this.

 

[Chhatrapati]

They all derive from Hinduism, which came with the Aryans.

Still making claims. You failed to answer who are Aryans, I guess such things are difficult to comprehend for simpletons.

It's not just that, the stories are remarkably similar to that of other Indo-European religions.

How do you expect the god of rain or Sun to have different stories.

Here's a story of Indra, his weapon called Vajra, it's made from the bones of a sage Dhadichi, inorder to kill Vritra who cannot be killed by any known weapon. I like to hear a similar story somewhere, given how important it is.

Or the trio gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. I'm looking for equivalent gods, find me one.

Sanskrit is an Indo-European language. Higher caste Hindus also have a larger portion of ancestry from Europe, and best of all, Hinduism itself literally emerges after the Indo-Aryans came about. There's no getting around this.

Maybe it is, then again these are simply assumption, Sanskrit was a spoken language and it wasn't spoken outside this subcontinent. Only that there are similar sounding words that exist outside, which is like similar terracotta or swastika symbols from IVC that doesn't mean the High Germanic and IVC was same.

 

[Hamza913]

Still making claims.

I'm only saying what is factual. If you knew anything about the topic we're discussing, you wouldn't be spouting such garbage. I strongly urge you to do more research.

You failed to answer who are Aryans

Indo-European migrants who came to the region.

I guess such things are difficult to comprehend

You're the one denying basic facts.

How do you expect the god of rain or Sun to have different stories

Oh it's much deeper than that lol. The fact that you think the similarities end here shows how little you know.

Maybe it is

Not maybe, this is a fact. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language.