MARTIAL LAW TOMMOROW!

[bhangra12345]

Well simple the army is sledgehammer and social reform require subtlety.The problem is this. You can either opt for stability (army) or Chaos/corruption and instability (civilian rule)

Are you by any chance saying, that the army rule has not been corrupt?
If army is a sledgehammer and cant handle subtlety required for society, they have no point in being at the helm. They can come in periods of emergency for max of 6 months and then get out of the helm.

As far as I can see, you need growth and stability in order to get more people educated. When the people have that then they can decide. Then the army should stand aside.

Again sir, you are demeaning the intelligence of the uneducated people. I would not like to generalize it over all the Pakistanis, but if this is the attitude of a general pakistani, Pakistan is in for a tough ride for democracy.

Because today in the bolded part, you are replacing "that" with education. What will happen if I start replacing it words like "Islam", "Pakistaniyat", "Punjabiyat" and so on.

For me, it is a matter of principle.

I mean let me give a for instance....there is a member of this board who is a fervent PPP supporter.....now heres the intresting point....He has never been to Pakistan and has lived outside of there his whole life.
THATS the kind of mentality we have to break

What you forget is, he still believes he is a "pakistani", a person who never has seen or lived there. Do you think even this mentality has to be curbed?

 

[bhangra12345]

musharaf should be king of pakistan

He already is, except for the title.

 

[Keysersoze]

Pakistan 'may declare emergency'


Pakistan's government is considering imposing emergency rule, the country's information minister has said.

Tariq Azeem conceded that the issue was being discussed, as Pakistani TV channels reported that a declaration state of emergency was imminent.

An emergency would limit the role of the courts, restrict civil liberties and curb freedom of expression.

Earlier, Pakistan's president said he would not attend a tribal council in Afghanistan on combating the Taleban.

General Pervez Musharraf pulled out of the three-day council, or jirga, citing commitments in Islamabad.

Gen Musharraf faces a volatile political and security situation after a siege at a radical Islamabad mosque and protests by lawyers angry at the sacking of the country's chief justice.

Opposition to Mr Musharraf's rule has also increased.

"The possibility of the enforcement of emergency, like other possibilities, is under discussion," Information Minster Tariq Azeem said, although he said an emergency might not eventually be declared.

He admitted US threats to launch an operation in the tribal areas and the recent targeting of Chinese nationals had played a role in the issue being discussed.

"In addition, the situation on the borders and the suicide attacks are also a concern," Mr Azeem added.

Hostile judiciary

A meeting of senior government officials headed by President Musharraf was expected to be held on Thursday to decide the issue.



Under an emergency, powers to detain citizens would be extended and parliament could extend its tenure by a year.

Observers believe if Gen Musharraf opts for emergency rule it would primarily affect the powers of the increasingly hostile judiciary.

Additionally, it would allow the president to postpone national elections due to be held later in 2007.

This could enable him to continue in his role as chief of Pakistan's powerful military.

Opposition political parties, like Pakistan's largest party, the PPP, want Gen Musharraf to give up the role.

"The emergency is a big step and the government should think twice before enforcing it," says former Prime Minister and PPP leader Benazir Bhutto.

"I hope such a drastic step will not take place.

"It will be a retrogressive step taking the country backwards."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6937907.stm

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Not martial law.

Only Emergency.

Nawaz Sharif's case was to be judged. It would add to the turmoil.

 

[ejaz007]

Gentlemen I think only imposing emergency is being discussed at the moment. One possible reason could be that Musharraf failed to win support of his corps commanders. As far as legal position is considered imposing emergency is not that easy. There are legal issues involved. Perhaps most important thing at the moment for musharraf is that by imposing emergency he shall actually be accepting that under his rule situation in Pakistan gas gone from bad to worst rather than improving. As far as hearing of different cases is concerned under emergency I don’t think the powers of courts especially supreme court are that adversely curtailed.

 

[Adux]

ejaz,

My question is about the legality again, How can a person who dons the title of dictator be termed legal.

If not Musharraf then Who? What about the other corps commanders.

 

[HAIDER]

Return of Benazir and Nawaz will be nightmare for the nation. Both are not efficient enough to deal with changing geopolitical situation in Pakistan and surroundings..
But unfortunately, people hate to vote and those who vote are not sensible enough to make right choice ....

 

[Adux]

Bones and corpses of Musharraf rule will only emerge after he has gone, say what you want of BB and Sharif, but they never let the Sovereignty and integrity of Pakistan be taken for granted by a third country.
But then again Musharraf is reaping the ill's created by Zia, Sharif and BB.

Haider Unlike the US, People of the sub-continet DO VOTE.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

the latest from bbc

Pakistan 'facing emergency rule'
Reports from Pakistan say the country's president, Pervez Musharraf, is considering imposing emergency rule.
Pakistani Information Minister Tariq Azeem said the issue was being discussed, given external and internal threats to the country.

However the head of Mr Musharraf's Pakistan Muslim League later said there was "no possibility" of such a move.

The reports came after Gen Musharraf abruptly called off plans to attend a tribal peace conference in Afghanistan.

Emergency rule would limit the role of the courts, restrict civil liberties and curb freedom of expression.

The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says opposition and media figures believe such a drastic step would be related more to domestic politics, particularly Gen Musharraf's desire to be re-elected for another term as both president and head of the army.

This would almost certainly trigger legal challenges, she says.

'Difficult circumstances'

Gen Musharraf faces a volatile political and security situation after a siege at a radical Islamabad mosque and protests by lawyers angry at the suspension of the country's chief justice, who was later reinstated.


The possibility of an emergency cannot be ruled out
Tariq Azeem,
Pakistan Information Minister

"The possibility of the enforcement of emergency, like other possibilities, is under discussion," Mr Azeem said, although he stressed that the measure might not be necessary.

"I cannot say that it will be tonight, tomorrow or later. We hope that it does not happen.

"But we are going through difficult circumstances so the possibility of an emergency cannot be ruled out," the Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.

He said US threats to launch an operation in the tribal areas and the recent targeting of Chinese nationals by Islamic militants had played a role in the issue being discussed.

"In addition, the situation on the borders and the suicide attacks are also a concern," Mr Azeem added.

But speaking to reporters, Pakistan Muslim League President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain dampened speculation, saying: "There is no possibility of an emergency", Reuters news agency reported.

A meeting of senior government officials headed by President Musharraf is expected to be held on Thursday to decide the issue.

Elections threat

Under a state of emergency, powers to detain citizens would be extended and parliament could extend its tenure by a year.


The emergency is a big step and the government should think twice before enforcing it
Benazir Bhutto,
Opposition leader

It would also allow the president to postpone national elections due to be held later in 2007.
This could enable him to continue in his role as chief of Pakistan's powerful military.

Opposition political parties, like Pakistan's largest party, the PPP, want Gen Musharraf to give up the role.

"The emergency is a big step and the government should think twice before enforcing it," said former Prime Minister and PPP leader Benazir Bhutto.

"I hope such a drastic step will not take place.

"It will be a retrogressive step taking the country backwards."

Gen Musharraf pulled out of the three-day Afghan council, or jirga, on combating the Taleban, citing commitments in Islamabad.

Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is attending in his place.

Up to 700 tribal elders, Islamic clerics and leaders of both countries are invited to the council, starting on Thursday, which will discuss terrorism.

The Taleban have not been included, and are calling for a boycott of the event.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6937907.stm

Published: 2007/08/09 09:18:32 GMT

© BBC MMVII

 

[HAIDER]

ISLAMABAD, Aug 9(AFP): Embattled President Pervez Musharraf decided on Thursday not to impose a state of emergency in Pakistan, ignoring the advice of aides who wanted strong action to prevent more instability in the troubled nation. Facing the greatest challenge to his leadership since he seized power in a 1999 coup, heopted against the move, which would have postponed elections, Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani told AFP. “President Musharraf has decided not to impose the state of emergency in the country as suggested by some political parties and others,” Durrani said. “The decision was taken because the priority of the president and present government is to have free, fair and impartial elections in line with the constitutional requirements,” he said. (Posted @ 17:38 PST)
http://dawn.com/2007/08/09/welcome.htm

 

[Awesome]

Haha Musharraf just flexed his muscles to silence our American friends who have been talking too much. It's sort of an indication that when pinned, Pakistan CAN goto extremes.

Musharraf was never really going to do it. But what happened as soon as this speculation was out n about? Condi starts calling him up, this n that.

 

[Neo]

Musharraf decides against Pakistan emergency​

by Rana Jawad
Thu Aug 9, 2007

ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Embattled President Pervez Musharraf decided Thursday not to impose a state of emergency in Pakistan, ignoring the advice of aides who wanted strong action to prevent more instability in the troubled nation.

The military ruler, facing the greatest challenge to his leadership since he seized power in a 1999 coup, opted against the move, which would have postponed elections, Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani told AFP.

"President Musharraf has decided not to impose the state of emergency in the country as suggested by some political parties and others," Durrani said.

"The decision was taken because the priority of the president and present government is to have free, fair and impartial elections in line with the constitutional requirements."

Musharraf had been locked in consultations with key officials the previous night amid reports that he was ready to declare a state of emergency.

The Pakistani president has been facing public anger over his suspension, since overturned in court, of the country's chief justice -- which critics saw as an attempt to remove any legal obstacles to keeping the dual positions of president and head of the military.

Mass protests over the attempted suspension, mounting criticism of his government's handling of militants along the Afghan border and efforts by rivals to come back from exile to contest the election have put him under fire.

US President George W. Bush delivered a strong reminder to Musharraf Thursday that he expected full cooperation from Pakistan against extremists and that he was "hopeful" the military ruler would hold "a free and fair election."

"I have made it clear to him that I expect that there be full cooperation in sharing intelligence" and "swift action" against extremists inside Pakistan if he gets solid intelligence about their whereabouts, Bush said.

Bush was also careful to express respect for Pakistan's sovereignty, following Islamabad's public anger over calls for unilateral US action to target Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda on Pakistani soil.

The president, in a White House news conference, paid tribute to Musharraf's cooperation with the United States in battling terrorism.

"We spend a lot of time with the leadership in Pakistan talking about what we will do with actionable intelligence," he said.

The Pakistan polls, due by early 2008, will be the first since late 2002.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Musharraf on Wednesday as he mulled whether to impose a state of emergency, Washington said, but a spokesman declined to give details of the conversation.

Musharraf has been angered by accusations from Washington that Pakistan has become a safe haven for Al-Qaeda and a regrouped Taliban, and that its actions against militant bases are inadequate.

The military launched an operation against suspected militants in restive North Waziristan tribal area, on the Afghan border, on Thursday, killing at least 10 fighters, chief spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad said.

The operation came in response to several attacks on military targets by pro-Taliban militants earlier in the day.

A new poll released Thursday by a Washington think-tank, the International Republican Institute, showed a majority of Pakistanis want Musharraf to step down as head of the army.

It found that 62 percent of Pakistanis thought he should resign as army chief, while 59 percent said elections held while he continues to wear his military uniform were unlikely to be free and fair.

Imposing emergency rule would have automatically extended the tenure of the current parliament for another 12 months, meaning a delay in elections.

But following the upheaval over his move against the chief justice, and the bloodshed surrounding a siege of a radical mosque in the capital Islamabad several weeks ago that left dozens dead, some wanted him to clamp down.

Aides had argued that Pakistan could not afford further instability.

By rejecting their advice, Musharraf may have denied ammunition to political rivals such as exiled former prime ministers Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto, who have signalled their intention to return home to contest the elections.

Sharif still officially heads his faction of the conservative Pakistan Muslim League party, while Bhutto, who lives in self-imposed exile, is the leader of the centrist Pakistan People's Party.

The rumblings about emergency rule coincided with Musharraf's decision Wednesday to pull out of a key three-day tribal council in Kabul which began Thursday, aimed at ending support for Taliban and Al-Qaeda-sponsored terrorism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070809/ts_afp/pakistanunrestpolitics_070809182737

 

[irfan1173]

Condi's phone call behind reversal


DILSHAD AZEEM
ISLAMABAD - President General Pervez Musharraf withdrew the decision of imposing emergency following late night telephone call by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, The Nation has learnt here.
“The decision is reversed after Condoleezza Rice strongly opposed the option of proclamation of emergency and conveyed to Musharraf strong reservations of the United States of America particularly those of Democrats-dominated US Congress,” diplomatic sources said.
Condoleezza Rice discussed with General Pervez mainly two issues; his plan to impose emergency in the country on various grounds, and his non-participation in the Afghan Jirga, being held in Afghanistan.
“She told Musharraf in categoric terms that there will be tough response on the part of US administration and democratic institutions if he goes for the proclamation of emergency,” said the sources privy to the late night telephonic conversation between the two after electronic media aired emergency related reports.
According to sources, the President had signed the proclamation of emergency papers just before he received the call from Condoleezza Rice. “Besides the question of emergency, Musharraf and Rice discussed in detail as to why the former did not proceed to Afghanistan to take part in Afghan Jirga and preferred to send Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz.”
At the same time, President Musharraf’s “competent” advisors had given their assessment that the Supreme Court might announce its decision on the pending petition of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his younger brother Shahbaz Sharif in the Thursday’s hearing.
However, contrary to the assessment of these advisors, the Supreme Court adjourned the hearing till August 16. “These are the same advisors who had asked General Musharraf to go for filing the reference against Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry,” the government sources said.
The legal eagles including Law Minister Wasi Zafar, Attorney General Justice (Retd) Qayyum Malik and Secretary Law Justice (Retd) Mansoor, whose incompetence was evident from the fact they were afraid that the Supreme Court might have given the verdict in the Nawaz Sharif’s petition regarding his return, the sources said. It simply seems to be a rare case of paranoid legal eagles selling their fears to an equally, if not more, paranoid president.
Attorney General Justice (Retd) Muhammad Qayyum, who had a meeting with President Musharraf following one with Sharifuddin Pirzada, had expressed indifference with the emergency reports saying that neither had he any information in this regard nor General Musharraf discussed with him the issue.
Meanwhile, the PML President Chaudhry Shujat Hussain and Secretary General Mushahid Hussain Syed held an important meeting with the President here at Aiwan-e-Sadr on Thursday bringing under discussion various issues with the emergency placed at the top of the agenda.
“Musharraf, in the same meeting, conveyed to the PML President his decision of avoiding to impose the emergency. Emergency will not be imposed,” the sources said quoting the President.
Almost all the government functionaries came up with the statements not only opposing the emergency option but also attributing the reports to the elements who want disturbance in the country.
According to sources, the PML leaders, particularly Chaudhry Shujat Hussain, had in the back of his mind that their plan of re-electing General Pervez Musharraf will be thwarted if former prime ministers, Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto came back.
At the same time, the sources said the government is not sure whether the Saudi government is ready to accept Nawaz Sharif back although General Pervez Musharraf was given due protocol during his last visit to that country.
The news of imposing emergency was leaked during the parliamentary party meeting of the ruling party at the residence of PML President Chaudhry Shujat Hussain.
“Some PML stalwarts like Mushahid Hussain Syed were bitterly opposed to the proclamation of emergency,” these sources further said. Mushahid is on record describing those as ‘stupid’ who were calling for imposition of emergency.
The sources also believe that the stock market may have crashed in case of imposition of the emergency as it was also reflected when the KSE 100 index went down up to 600 points on Thursday. After withdrawal of the emergency option, the stock market improved.

 

[Contrarian]

What is the point of elections, somehow incredibly Musharraf will get 're-elected' again and again in every one of those elections. What does a democracy mean, what do elections mean when the people cannot remove Musharraf.

 

[Awesome]

Well the point is that ELECTED members of the parliament would elect Musharraf. A move that CAN be stopped by the reinstated CJ if he sees any malice. If not stopped he can significantly delay the elections till the general body elections.