Mard-e-momin, Mard-e-Haq and the Zia ul Haq.

[pak-marine]

A pig can't enter Kaaba many times and your post is full of blind hatred and nothing else.



And our useless people still blame the person who die more then 30 + years and they are not capable to tackle this matters. what a lame excuse

zia created a monster who bites own master .. what he did was plain stupid .. unfortunatly the masses were delusional and still are

 

[niaz]

I grew up during Ayub Khan era. What a peaceful time it was. As a young teen ager in Sargodha I thought nothing of going to see the late night show with friends on bicycle to the city which during my time had only 2 cinemas. Even though my village (Chak) was just over 4 miles from city, the thought that I might be in physical danger never occurred to anyone.

My personal opinion is admittedly controversial, but I believe that two persons have done the greatest harm to Pakistan.

First was ZA Bhutto. He was partially responsible for the breakup of the country (Read Hamood Ur Rahman report) . ZAB also killed off entrepreneurship by nationalizing everything under the sun. ZAB let workers take over even the nationalised factories who then sold off machinery worth crores for peanuts. Pakistan never really recovered from this brutal choking off of industrial development. Kidnapping for ransom was first heard during his time as Sindhis found an easy way of getting rich overnight.

Second man was Zia ul Haq. In addition to illegal usurpation of power; Zia gave us Kalashnikov & drug culture. In the name of Islam he had people publically flogged. Did crime reduce because of that?. He introduced Hudood Laws; are rape & sodomy any less? Needless to remind one of Mukhtaran mai & poor young boys of Kasur.

One had never heard of target killing or burning of Christian homes before Zia’s Islamization. It was Zia who created MQM, SSP and the sectarian outfits. His legacy lingers on in his protégé Nawaz Sharif who cannot find in his heart to remove Lal Masjid mullah despite Aziz’s open admiration for Da’ish and the killers of the Army Public School. 12 year rule of Zia created the mind-set which insists on legalising child marriages quoting the example of Hazrat Ayesha ( RA) but won’t openly condemn suicide bombing when suicide is clearly forbidden in the holy Quran.

Zia’s policies created a schism between the moderates/ liberals and the extremist / jihadi lovers. We became obsessed with minor issues which are not even part of the religion preached by our holy Prophet (PBUH). For example criticizing of Sehaba was never a crime worthy of losing one’s life during Prophet's lifetime nor is there any Hadith to this effect. LEJ /TTP on the other hand consider killing of Shia a work for Allah because Shia don’t venerate first 3 Khalifas.

Even the political leaders such as JI Amir Munawwar Hassan consider TTP butchers Shaheed, whereas TTP knowledge of Islam in evidenced by the fact the Zafar ullah Mahsood, a close companion of Baitullah Mahsood admitted that he had never read Quran until he was in Jail, whereas I, a liberal completed reading the holy book when I was barely 12 years old.

Conversions to Islam in Punjab started during Ghaznavid period in the late tenth Century that is almost one thousand years ago. We don’t need to import Salafi/Takfiri Islam from Saudi Arabia to make us better Muslims.

History tells us that Wahhabi targets were not the infidels but the Muslim Ottoman Turks and most of their victims were Allah fearing Muslims. Wahhabis actually sided with the British Kafirs to kick Muslim Ottomans out of the Arab lands during WWI. Salafi/Wahhabi is essentially an Arab nationalist movement which has no place in Pakistan. The bigot Zia promoted Wahhabism in Pakistan resulting in the sectarian strife.

Extremist loving section of the society calls moderate/ liberal Pakistanis like me agents of the West. Liberals & secularists may be infidels & agents of the West, but they don't blow up schools, they don’t cut people’s throats and they don’t burn Christian homes. Liberals also don’t bomb mosques or carry out suicide attacks. Liberals are also against marriage of nine year old girls!

Many Zia lovers mistakenly believe that he defeated the Soviet Union. Nothing can be further from the truth; without the funding by CIA & the Gulf countries and the arms from the US , Zia or anyone else would not have been able to do anything. Zia merely facilitated the training of jihadis from all over the world and thus creating the mess we are in today.

Forgiveness is a Muslim virtue, but I cannot find in my heart any sympathy for Zia because I hold Zia responsible for turning Pakistan from a peaceful haven into a living hell. I pray that Allah sends Zia into the deepest hell.

 

[Maarkhoor]

I grew up during Ayub Khan era. What a peaceful time it was. As a young teen ager in Sargodha I thought nothing of going to see the late night show with friends on bicycle to the city which during my time had only 2 cinemas. Even though my village (Chak) was just over 4 miles from city, the thought that I might be in physical danger never occurred to anyone.

My personal opinion is admittedly controversial, but I believe that two persons have done the greatest harm to Pakistan.

First was ZA Bhutto. He was partially responsible for the breakup of the country (Read Hamood Ur Rahman report) . ZAB also killed off entrepreneurship by nationalizing everything under the sun. ZAB let workers take over even the nationalised factories who then sold off machinery worth crores for peanuts. Pakistan never really recovered from this brutal choking off of industrial development. Kidnapping for ransom was first heard during his time as Sindhis found an easy way of getting rich overnight.

Second man was Zia ul Haq. In addition to illegal usurpation of power; Zia gave us Kalashnikov & drug culture. In the name of Islam he had people publically flogged. Did crime reduce because of that?. He introduced Hudood Laws; are rape & sodomy any less? Needless to remind one of Mukhtaran mai & poor young boys of Kasur.

One had never heard of target killing or burning of Christian homes before Zia’s Islamization. It was Zia who created MQM, SSP and the sectarian outfits. His legacy lingers on in his protégé Nawaz Sharif who cannot find in his heart to remove Lal Masjid mullah despite Aziz’s open admiration for Da’ish and the killers of the Army Public School. 12 year rule of Zia created the mind-set which insists on legalising child marriages quoting the example of Hazrat Ayesha ( RA) but won’t openly condemn suicide bombing when suicide is clearly forbidden in the holy Quran.

Zia’s policies created a schism between the moderates/ liberals and the extremist / jihadi lovers. We became obsessed with minor issues which are not even part of the religion preached by our holy Prophet (PBUH). For example criticizing of Sehaba was never a crime worthy of losing one’s life during Prophet's lifetime nor is there any Hadith to this effect. LEJ /TTP on the other hand consider killing of Shia a work for Allah because Shia don’t venerate first 3 Khalifas.

Even the political leaders such as JI Amir Munawwar Hassan consider TTP butchers Shaheed, whereas TTP knowledge of Islam in evidenced by the fact the Zafar ullah Mahsood, a close companion of Baitullah Mahsood admitted that he had never read Quran until he was in Jail, whereas I, a liberal completed reading the holy book when I was barely 12 years old.

Conversions to Islam in Punjab started during Ghaznavid period in the late tenth Century that is almost one thousand years ago. We don’t need to import Salafi/Takfiri Islam from Saudi Arabia to make us better Muslims.

History tells us that Wahhabi targets were not the infidels but the Muslims Ottoman Turks and most of their victims were Allah fearing Muslims. Wahhabis actually sided with the British Kafirs to kick Muslim Ottomans out of the Arab lands during WWI. Salafi/Wahhabi is essentially an Arab nationalist movement which has no place in Pakistan. The bigot Zia promoted Wahhabism in Pakistan resulting in the sectarian strife.

Extremist loving section of the society calls moderate/ liberal Pakistanis like me and agents of the West. Liberals & secularists may be infidels & agents of the West, but they don't blow up schools, they don’t cut people’s throats and they don’t burn Christian homes. Liberals also don’t bomb mosques or carry out suicide attacks. Liberals are also against marriage of nine year old girls!

Many Zia lovers mistakenly believe that he defeated the Soviet Union. Nothing can be further from the truth; without the funding by CIA & the Gulf countries and the arms from the US , Zia or anyone else would not have been able to do anything. Zia merely facilitated the training of jihadis from all over the world and thus creating the mess we are in today.

Forgiveness is a Muslim virtue, but I cannot find in my heart any sympathy for Zia because I hold Zia responsible for turning Pakistan for a peaceful haven into a living hell. I pray that Allah sends Zia into the deepest hell.

Every thing you post is correct he created or at least helped the creation of Taliban the prophesied ones they are evil, Dajjal, Khawarijs who tries to uproot true Islam. They attack and attacking the very roots of Islam the basic one the humanity. He will be remembered the one who is responsible or father of todays ISIS, Taliban and TTP.

 

[somebozo]

@niaz - oh what golden words you speak..

 

[VCheng]

@niaz - oh what golden words you speak..

Zia's death is the reason some people call the C-130 "Mohsin-e-Pakistan".

 

[Maarkhoor]

Zia's death is the reason some people call the C-130 "Mohsin-e-Pakistan".

Did you check his speech I posted ? he totally went mullah for a moment I think I am listening to mullah burkha.

 

[VCheng]

Did you check his speech I posted ? he totally went mullah for a moment I think I am listening to mullah burkha.

He never went Mullah for a moment. He was a Mullah, through and through, 24/7.

 

[Jungibaaz]

His rule was a tragedy, and believe me, we will suffer more of it, even in the coming decades. One of the big problems that people tend to ignore is the drug culture and crime Zia created/imported, even if we beat terrorism and extremism (another by-product of Zia), and even if the short term economic and structural issues are overcome, drug use will perhaps one day become one of the biggest problems for us, it will plague our society even as it seems to progress.

 

[waz]

He did some good things, but seriously what is his lasting legacy? The decades old war against the extremist virus that was pumped in during the Soviet/Afghan war, which continues to destroy Pakistan today. I grew up in his era and I remember how he sidelined, even chastised many of the traditional Sufi Alims of Pakistan, and favoured completely crazy folk, who were hellbent on the total conversion of Pakistani society to a way of life alien to us. I just can't forgive or forget that.
Anyway, I'll do dua for him and leave at that.

 

[VCheng]

His rule was a tragedy, and believe me, we will suffer more of it, even in the coming decades. One of the big problems that people tend to ignore is the drug culture and crime Zia created/imported, even if we beat terrorism and extremism (another by-product of Zia), and even if the short term economic and structural issues are overcome, drug use will perhaps one day become one of the biggest problems for us, it will plague our society even as it seems to progress.

Not just Zia, but every dictator in the nation's history left a horrible legacy that contributed to the present day mess called Pakistan.

 

[niaz]

He did some good things, but seriously what is his lasting legacy? The decades old war against the extremist virus that was pumped in during the Soviet/Afghan war, which continues to destroy Pakistan today. I grew up in his era and I remember how he sidelined, even chastised many of the traditional Sufi Alims of Pakistan, and favoured completely crazy folk, who were hellbent on the total conversion of Pakistani society to a way of life alien to us. I just can't forgive or forget that.
Anyway, I'll do dua for him and leave at that.

Despite the fact that I truly despise the bigot. I would be intellectually dishonest if I don't admit that he continued support of Pakistan's atomic program. In my view that is the only good thing he did for Pakistan.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Not just Zia, but every dictator in the nation's history left a horrible legacy that contributed to the present day mess called Pakistan.

There's very little to be cheerful about in the alternatives, and very little certainty, but that is one thing I am certain about, every dictator was a mistake, and each regressed Pakistan back many decades and crippled any ability to progress.

 

[Hyperion]

1. Continuation of nuclear program? No credit whatsoever to him. If he had tried to stop it, he would have been executed from within, so there was no free will as far as nuclear matters were concerned.

2. Why man. Why???? Why do people of Pakistani origin, in the end, even pray for the biggest mass murderers........ seriously, what's with the forgiveness angle - or are you just being diplomatic?

1. He did some good things
2. I'll do dua for him and leave at that.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

USSR's remains done this, they probably planted neurotoxic capsules in ventilation system and all the crew and passengers went unconscious, And why I am saying that please check C.130 user manuals when nobody controls the plane automatically auto pilot engaged and started sequence of descend and crash in a particular way and eye witnesses say the same thing circling and nose ditching after every circling and eventually crashed.

@RescueRanger
Sir I would like to have your opinion on this thread. Pls check first page.

The Americans sent FBI teams to investigate the crash... All they did after coming to Pak was sight seeing... The investigation itself was never done ... Who knows maybe it was the Americans -- With help from Gen Zias "frenemies".... Reguarding the gas .. There are theories that it triggered by the use of a timing device... I'm sure you have read the book aswell۔

You couldn't be more wrong..... a few pigs who visited multiple of times:

And hundreds more from where those came from...... you people are so predictable, always using the "emotional" angle, whenever you get cornered.............. what can I say, nothing I say will work on you people........ you guys are the definition of dheetpann.

@Desert Fox, why don't you affix your photo to the collage above. I bet you've also done the pilgrimage!

Bhutto,Qaddafi,Saddam,Zia,Faisal,Nasir all died unnatural deaths coincidence,conspiracy or karma?

 

[FunkyGen]

Zia's death is the reason some people call the C-130 "Mohsin-e-Pakistan".

Well... gotta agree here...

The Americans sent FBI teams to investigate the crash... All they did after coming to Pak was sight seeing... The investigation itself was never done ... Who knows maybe it was the Americans -- With help from Gen Zias "frenemies".... Reguarding the gas .. There are theories that it triggered by the use of a timing device... I'm sure you have read the book aswell۔

DF... let us all agree on one thing Sir, a man shouldn't make more than one superpower an "enemy"...

There's very little to be cheerful about in the alternatives, and very little certainty, but that is one thing I am certain about, every dictator was a mistake, and each regressed Pakistan back many decades and crippled any ability to progress.

So, not all moderators are boot lickers, am i right?