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Maoists will overthrow govt much before 2050 : Kishenji

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WOW, now you are painting a rosy picture for communism for the first time, for praising communism to provide “cleaner water, pesticide or even better ventilation indoors”.
Obviously communists can only do simple things. I have no problems praising simpletons for doing whatever they can. :lol:

Obviously, pre-communist China was doing inferior in these "simple" areas.
No different than from any other era in history.

Are you telling us famines in India, Africa today are caused by communism? :lol:
No. But what make communism unique is that communists often put simpletons in charge :lol:, thereby compounding their stupidities, creating problems like famines in a country where the land are fertile and the people experienced.
 
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Obviously communists can only do simple things. I have no problems praising simpletons for doing whatever they can. :lol:


No different than from any other era in history.


No. But what make communism unique is that communists often put simpletons in charge :lol:, thereby compounding their stupidities, creating problems like famines in a country where the land are fertile and the people experienced.

Seems the great achievements by CPC in China, such as greatly enhanced in longevity, vast spread of literacy, and ever lasting economic booming, have antagonized you beyond you can bear. :lol:

For your leisure reading, “The Downfall of Capitalism and Communism” The Downfall of Capitalism and Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is perhaps a nice book. “Batra suggested capitalism would collapse before communism.”

As a matter of fact, no sovreign country has ever on the verge of banckrupt under communist control. Only capitalists make countries backrupt: Iceland goes bankrupt - BusinessWeek :hang2:
 
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WOW, now you are painting a rosy picture for communism for the first time, for praising communism to provide “cleaner water, pesticide or even better ventilation indoors”. Obviously, pre-communist China was doing inferior in these "simple" areas.

Are you telling us famines in India, Africa today are caused by communism? :lol:

India has not had a famine since 1947 - since we kicked the British out. There have been droughts but no famines.
 
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Seems the great achievements by CPC in China, such as greatly enhanced in longevity, vast spread of literacy, and ever lasting economic booming, have antagonized you beyond you can bear. :lol:
Antagonized? :lol: If anything, I am very happy for the Chinese people. China's successes actually validate the Western model and the sudden, ignoble and spectacular collapse of the Soviet Union. It proved that improving the people's welfare, beyond a certain point, is possible only if communists abandon their failed ideology and adopt the capitalist's. Buddy...People, other than monks and their types, do not want to live longer and healthier. We want to live longer, healthier and wealthier. The wealth here is not about keeping up with the Joneses but about making our daily lives easier. No one forces anyone to keep up with the Joneses. They do that from their own compulsions. Between heating up water for tea with fire, why not use the faster microwave? Fire is easy to produce. The 'nuker' is not. But either will do the job just fine.

As a matter of fact, no sovreign country has ever on the verge of banckrupt under communist control. Only capitalists make countries backrupt: Iceland goes bankrupt - BusinessWeek :hang2:
In order to be bankrupt, the country must have a capitalist economic system. Communist countries can either collapse like the Soviet Union, or quietly changed their errant ways like China and Viet Nam did. So I guess communists can claim a dubious 'victory' of sort. :lol:
 
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Antagonized? :lol: If anything, I am very happy for the Chinese people. China's successes actually validate the Western model and the sudden, ignoble and spectacular collapse of the Soviet Union. It proved that improving the people's welfare, beyond a certain point, is possible only if communists abandon their failed ideology and adopt the capitalist's. Buddy...People, other than monks and their types, do not want to live longer and healthier. We want to live longer, healthier and wealthier. The wealth here is not about keeping up with the Joneses but about making our daily lives easier. No one forces anyone to keep up with the Joneses. They do that from their own compulsions. Between heating up water for tea with fire, why not use the faster microwave? Fire is easy to produce. The 'nuker' is not. But either will do the job just fine.


In order to be bankrupt, the country must have a capitalist economic system. Communist countries can either collapse like the Soviet Union, or quietly changed their errant ways like China and Viet Nam did. So I guess communists can claim a dubious 'victory' of sort. :lol:

interesting. 25% of the economy in china is made up of state controlled enterprises, and the best known multinationals as well as most of the fortune 500 chinese companies, are all state owned or controlled. sinopec, lenovo, haier are some simple examples. the current system is most definitely not US capitalism, though also far from Soviet command economy. it's much like Germany or Japan in the 1900's, except with the government substituting for powerful families, or Lenin's New Economic Policy before stalin took over.

if the things you said are so simple, then why can't they be done by the obviously superior capitalist systems before them in south vietnam and RoC? have you read the US army manual? if i recall a statement was "The simplest things are the hardest." they aren't that easy, otherwise every country could just do that.

obviously, the soviet system is flawed. but who said the soviet system represents real socialism? and in fact, the soviet system worked great for the first 50 years and increased lifespan for russians all the way until 1991, when russian lifespan began decreasing.

without a command economy to set a foundation for industrialization in countries that lacked a head start, they'll all end up like india or phillipines, countries without an industrial base to go further up the economic chain. they either have to try to compete with already industrialized countries in services like india, or stick to making shoes and clothes like phillipines or indonesia. they will never get to industrialize, their time has past.

also, a refute to communist countries don't go bankrupt: even though north korea isn't a real socialist country, more like a feudal monarchy, it still went backrupt in the 70's when it defaulted on international loans. other than north korea, no communist nation has defaulted on its debt.
 
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@below_freezing,

Come on man... you think you will be able to make him understand the validity your point? It will never be possible... its a natural rule. He will stick to his hatred which the nature has bestowed upon him towards the Chinese no matter how much you try to convince him.

You are just wasting your energy and time. Don't answer him.
 
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@below_freezing,

Come on man... you think you will be able to make him understand the validity your point? You will never be possible... its natural rule. He will stick to his hatred which the nature has bestowed upon him towards the Chinese no matter how much you try to convince him.

You are just wasting your energy and time. Don't answer him.

that is true.
 
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interesting. 25% of the economy in china is made up of state controlled enterprises, and the best known multinationals as well as most of the fortune 500 chinese companies, are all state owned or controlled. sinopec, lenovo, haier are some simple examples. the current system is most definitely not US capitalism, though also far from Soviet command economy. it's much like Germany or Japan in the 1900's, except with the government substituting for powerful families, or Lenin's New Economic Policy before stalin took over.

if the things you said are so simple, then why can't they be done by the obviously superior capitalist systems before them in south vietnam and RoC? have you read the US army manual? if i recall a statement was "The simplest things are the hardest." they aren't that easy, otherwise every country could just do that.
So what if they are 'state controlled'? The point here is that China abandoned the failed communist methods of production.

Here is what Marx said...

Critique of the Gotha Programme-- I
In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!
Note the highlighted. That is the goal of communism: A society where everyone is unselfish. Everyone labored for the greater good over selfish desires. No one take from society any more than he needs to survive. Sounds like Utopia to me. But now we see all the chiefs of those 'state controlled' enterprises live like the best of the West's Murdochs and Gates. You cannot defend communism in principle when it has been abandoned in practice for any reason.

obviously, the soviet system is flawed. but who said the soviet system represents real socialism?...
When I see this 'real socialism' or 'real communism' nonsense, I know there is no way out of this argument. Best not to enter it in the first place.
 
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@below_freezing,

Come on man... you think you will be able to make him understand the validity your point? It will never be possible... its a natural rule. He will stick to his hatred which the nature has bestowed upon him towards the Chinese no matter how much you try to convince him.

You are just wasting your energy and time. Don't answer him.
:lol: You cannot defend your beliefs so the only thing you can do is turn my arguments into a racist one.
 
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True communist society is not possible. If everyone works for the greater good of society and is unselfish then any form of government would have worked, in fact there is then no need for supervision.

What we have to understand is that for china's leaders, democracy is just another form of government. People in west might have see democratic governments as an end to all, but China has been ruled under centralized monarchy for a couple of thousand years, and periods of great prosperity existed also. The current democratic governments shared a relatively short history in their eyes, and are still under evaluation. They will take what is useful and incorporate/modify into their own unique system. The end result is something that is neither completely communist nor capitalist but will be a mix. This is why it is called rather unexcitingly 'with Chinese characteristics'.

regards
 
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True communist society is not possible. If everyone works for the greater good of society and is unselfish then any form of government would have worked, in fact there is then no need for supervision.
There is no need to achieve %100 communism. If people will not from their own sense of altruism to give %100 of their labor to the state and take only what is necessary to survive, then the state will just have to do everything for them by force. That is why property rights should be eliminated. That is why we have that hideous 'Mao suit' that everyone was compelled to wear in a state directed attempt to make everyone the same. If the slaves will not give %100 labor effort, then the state will settle for %50 or less, just as long as each slave receive only what is necessary to survive.

Sheesshh...Why is that so hard to ignorant people to understand? Communism is great.
 
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crap article, crap thread, stupid BS again and again and again.
 
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Ya Will any one care to return to topic? Or please close this thread
 
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Antagonized? :lol: If anything, I am very happy for the Chinese people. China's successes actually validate the Western model and the sudden, ignoble and spectacular collapse of the Soviet Union. It proved that improving the people's welfare, beyond a certain point, is possible only if communists abandon their failed ideology and adopt the capitalist's. Buddy...People, other than monks and their types, do not want to live longer and healthier. We want to live longer, healthier and wealthier. The wealth here is not about keeping up with the Joneses but about making our daily lives easier. No one forces anyone to keep up with the Joneses. They do that from their own compulsions. Between heating up water for tea with fire, why not use the faster microwave? Fire is easy to produce. The 'nuker' is not. But either will do the job just fine.


In order to be bankrupt, the country must have a capitalist economic system. Communist countries can either collapse like the Soviet Union, or quietly changed their errant ways like China and Viet Nam did. So I guess communists can claim a dubious 'victory' of sort. :lol:

Are you sure you are happy?

Your statements have belied your claim profoundly.

Before CPC took over China, life expectancy was about 35, literacy was about 15%… Now you comically tell us make life long is a simple thing. But why democratic Indians, and Africans haven’t achieved the simple thing, instead the communist China has? Isn't democracy inferior to communism? (BTW, I apologize to Indian friends here that it is not that I want to drag in India, but India happens to be a convenient example to contrast China.)

Before CPC controls China, corruptive Chinese government couldn’t even protect Vietnam, a then vassal state of China, from the devastation of evil western invaders: the French. That caused a series of misfortunes to the Vietnam people.

Under the CPC leadership, China not only successfully defended itself in Korea War: the first war that colored people win over the white in modern human history; but also helped the people of Vietnam sustained the atrocities committed by US aggressors and expelled US troops and their running jackals such as you out of Vietnam soil. The Vietnamese finally achieved their true independence they’ve struggled for for generations.

Now go back to genocide/atrocity issues. Communism by far committed much less atrocities than Westerns. Studies show that Westerners, driven by capitalist greediness, exterminated more than 100,000,000 American Indians during their colonization. This is a truly unprecedented crime at any stage of human history. It is estimated that billions of innocent people across the world have been killed by the colonists.

The USA shares a lion's share of that murderous deeds. In addition, millions of black slaves were murdered. Today American Indians are within their reservations, still being softly killed by diseases, alcoholism, murders, drugs, government negligence… This rich land of America is their land, but now they are devastated to a near extinction status…

Atrocities committed by mishandling of communism systems look far pale in front of bloody capitalism. Marx well addressed capitalism: since the advent of capitalism into this world, it's “dripping from head to foot, from every pore, with blood and dirt.”, and that “capital is dead labour which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labour”. That is precisely the core nature of capitalism.

Only the rise of communism alarmed then industrialized countries to absorb some communist elements, such as social welfare, etc. as directed by Marx and now implemented in the States: THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO

“Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. –Partially implemented in US and totally in some States

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. – completely implemented in US

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. – partially implemented in US

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. – completely implemented in US

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. – partially implemented in US

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. – partially implemented in US

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. – partially implemented in US

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. --completely implemented in US

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. – partially implemented in US

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. --completely implemented in US “

Let me tell you: USA is more communist than China or Vietnam judged by many communist criteria.

Death toll to reckless capitalism has sounded since the financial storm. It becomes only more pronounced as capitalist Iceland going on bankrupt and capitalist Greek is on verge of bankrupt. Nonetheless, some valuable elements of capitalism will survive just as some valuable elements of communism will do, regardless how the foolhardy would be screaming and yelling, petulantly.
 
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