Many countries express interest in JF-17 Thunder

[Argus Panoptes]

Well, considering that the Chinese are actually testing it out right now, it may very well be true.

So say the rumors, yes. We will see when the new Chinese engines for the JF-17 make their way to our fleet additions and to the export market.

 

[Zarvan]

@muse

When the JFT development kicked off, we were under sanctions.

Nawaz is going to make the 'Asian tiger' anyway.

nawaz can also get hell off money for defence from Saudi Arabia. and other. middle eastern countries and if china is developing engines for its more modern and heavy jets than why is it having problem or asking for engine from Russia for JF_17

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well, I am sick today caught cold from yesterday, so I am not going to reply you in detail.

But regarding the Mig-29, you are wrong, (well, you are right with that figure but that's for naval version of Mig-29, ie Mig-29K)

according to this, the reported price of the Mig-29 at 1999 is 11 millions, and the upgrade per planes to UPG or SMT standard is 15.5 millions per piece in 2008. Totalling 25-27 millions with training and spares

How much does a MiG-29K, MiG-29SMT and a MiG-29B really Cost?

The sale for the newly made Mig-29K is 33.3 millions a piece with upgrade and parts.

Sir how are you getting $33.3 MN per MIG-29K? Going by the very link you have provided the unit cost of a MIG-29K is anywhere from $42-47 MN per unit. Whilst the unit cost is still relatively unknown I very much doubt it is as cheap as $33 MN.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Topic, this always seems to be the case with Pakistan- all talk and no follow up due to a number of reasons.

 

[Kompromat]

@Zarvan

You are living in a delusion.

There is no such thing as a 'free lunch'.

 

[That Guy]

First thing you need to understand that …there are only 4 countries in the world that is making engine, i.e. UK, USA, RUSSIA and FRANCE. … In any circumstance they are not going to give this secret to anyone…Example: You might have seen that we INDIANS are struggling to make engine, even we have very good relationship with RUSSIA and FRANCE …. In short they have Monopoly in this world.

Mark my word INDIA and PAKISTAN relation will never improve…coz in general any country owns Army, but in case of PAKISTAN, Army owns country…. And PAKISTAN Army never wants good relationship between INDIA and PAKISTAN…Whatever government will come in PAKISTAN, it will work like a Puppet of Army.

I don’t want to comment much on JF-17, as I think this is a metal body compromised aircraft.

I want to start on your comment about the relations between Pakistan and India first, so if you're allow me...

The relationship will improve, regardless of what you say. They improved drastically during NS's last term in office, why wouldn't they improve now? The only reason why NS was kicked out of power was because he tried to pick a fight with the army that he knew he couldn't win. Times have changed since then, Pakistan and India aren't as bitter about their rivalry as they once were. The people of both countries are sick of fighting, and the military of Pakistan is too tired and has too much of a tarnished image to try and pick a fight with the increasingly powerful judiciary and increasingly assertive government.

Next, I already know most of what you're saying, but with China pouring billions of dollars into creating new engines, the Chinese are further ahead than India in this regard. They've already successfully created the engines, the problem is only the quality and lack of maturity of said engines. Their quality needs to improve and the engines need to mature enough to actually be considered good enough for fighter air-crafts. India hasn't put nearly as much time, manpower and money as China has, which is why India is behind in this regard. China has also been using existing engines as base platforms for their own engines, while India has been trying to create it's own from scratch, which give China another advantage in the field.

The JF-17 is good for what it is, regardless of it's metal body. It's a low cost 4th gen air-craft, that is only meant for defensive purposes. Considering that it costs less than other 4th gen air-crafts, a metal body is a decent compromise for a lower price tag. As long as it gets the job done, I don't think anyone can complain.

 

[That Guy]

So say the rumors, yes. We will see when the new Chinese engines for the JF-17 make their way to our fleet additions and to the export market.

Who knows, let's wait til next year, by that time we should hear something.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Who knows, let's wait til next year, by that time we should hear something.

There is no rush. I just want the economy to improve to the point where finances are not a concern for these projects.

 

[That Guy]

There is no rush. I just want the economy to improve to the point where finances are not a concern for these projects.

Of course, priorities. The economy and military go hand in hand. Without the economy, the military can't improve.

 

[shree835]

I want to start on your comment about the relations between Pakistan and India first, so if you're allow me...

The relationship will improve, regardless of what you say. They improved drastically during NS's last term in office, why wouldn't they improve now? The only reason why NS was kicked out of power was because he tried to pick a fight with the army that he knew he couldn't win. Times have changed since then, Pakistan and India aren't as bitter about their rivalry as they once were. The people of both countries are sick of fighting, and the military of Pakistan is too tired and has too much of a tarnished image to try and pick a fight with the increasingly powerful judiciary and increasingly assertive government.

Next, I already know most of what you're saying, but with China pouring billions of dollars into creating new engines, the Chinese are further ahead than India in this regard. They've already successfully created the engines, the problem is only the quality and lack of maturity of said engines. Their quality needs to improve and the engines need to mature enough to actually be considered good enough for fighter air-crafts. India hasn't put nearly as much time, manpower and money as China has, which is why India is behind in this regard. China has also been using existing engines as base platforms for their own engines, while India has been trying to create it's own from scratch, which give China another advantage in the field.

The JF-17 is good for what it is, regardless of it's metal body. It's a low cost 4th gen air-craft, that is only meant for defensive purposes. Considering that it costs less than other 4th gen air-crafts, a metal body is a decent compromise for a lower price tag. As long as it gets the job done, I don't think anyone can complain.

About INDIA PAKISTAN relation, I don’t know how you are making this big claim. NS was improving relationship and PA was improving number of intruders at Kargil, How can you say he had fight with Army, even NS was not aware of Army’s operation, except 4 guys in PA…PAKISTAN is no more threat for INDIA….Major concern for INDIA is CHINA in terms of power and economy.

About Engine, I agree with most of your points, let see what is coming up as a result.

Regarding Aircraft: Only thing I wanted to tell you that, in today’s scenario you need best Aircraft, you cannot compromise on performance.

 

[That Guy]

About INDIA PAKISTAN relation, I don’t know how you are making this big claim. NS was improving relationship and PA was improving number of intruders at Kargil, How can you say he had fight with Army, even NS was not aware of Army’s operation, except 4 guys in PA…PAKISTAN is no more threat for INDIA….Major concern for INDIA is CHINA in terms of power and economy.

About Engine, I agree with most of your points, let see what is coming up as a result.

Regarding Aircraft: Only thing I wanted to tell you that, in today’s scenario you need best Aircraft, you cannot compromise on performance.

I actually can, the reason why NS was kicked out was because he fired Musharraf and refused to let the plane land that Musharraf was in. Musharraf got pissed off and had NS arrested.

The Kargil conflict (1999) happened after the warming of relations (Pak-India relations were at an all time high just a year before during 1998), the military didn't like NS trying to improve the situation between Pakistan and India. Now though, the military has little choice but to have friendly relations with India, Pakistan's economy demands it.

Pakistan will always remain a threat to India, don't be naive to believe otherwise.

FYI, you should change your signature, it's against forum rules and extremely rude.

 

[Pakistanisage]

As of 2010, with the FC-1 in direct competition with the MiG-29 in the international market, Russian aircraft manufacturers have raised concerns regarding the re-export of the FC-1's RD-93 engines. The FC-1 is competing against the MiG-29 in an Egyptian tender for 32 fighter aircraft. Mikhail Pogosyan, head of the MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus, has recommended to the Russian defence export agency Rosoboronexport that sales of RD-93 engines to China be blocked to prevent the JF-17 from competing with the MiG-29 on the international market.

If at any time, Russia stops export of these engines for whatever reason, then what would happen? The entire export program will fall like a house of cards with associated legal issues.

Well. that is the reason why Chinese are working on bringing WS-13 online as fast as they can, Genius.

If I am not mistaken , they are just months away from making the Engine operational. Some Chinese member can shed some light on this issue.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan

You are living in a delusion.

There is no such thing as a 'free lunch'.

if china can develop engines for plane like j-10 b and other heavy pplnes why can't it produce better engine for jf-17

 

[Pakistanisage]

hmm...Very true... Just take an example of Bangladesh ...They went for outdated J-7 , but they did not think about JF-17.

For them price was the main issue. F7-PG's are much cheaper than JF-17. Besides the Awami League Govt. is not too keen to get involved with Pakistan.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Well. that is the reason why Chinese are working on bringing WS-13 online as fast as they can, Genius.

If I am not mistaken , they are just months away from making the Engine operational. Some Chinese member can shed some light on this issue.

PAF is satisfied with RD-93 is working fine for Pakistan, let WS-13 take time so it can be the Engine Pakistan wants in the long run for JFTs.

RD-93 was never for exports to any other country except for Pakistan nor did China-Pakistan intended it to be exported. There is no information available that Pak-China and EAF discussed for FC-1 with RD-93. Indian member is paranoid with it any and all exports will include WS Series Engines in the Future.