Manohar Parrikar's defence rejig saved Rs 49,300 crore

[Ankit Kumar]

Yes, only part payments are made for large deals such as the Rafale and S-400 but these are not the only 2 deals to be signed this year, there are plenty of others that have been stalled for years now- S-70B, M777, A330 MRTT ad many smaller ones. The cumlative cost of these deals won't allow for the Rafale and S-400 in the same FY, unless the GoI/MoD make a one off budget increase for strategic purposes. Why the GoI has let the defence budget slip to as low as 1.65% of GDP that has created such a paucity of funds I don't know.


Akash is an okay SR-SAM but the MR-SAM version (AKASH 2) will be an entirely new design. The BARAK-8 (designated MR-SAM by IA and IAF) on the other hand is exceptional.


There shouldn't be any issue with interfacing the S-400 with Indian SR and MR SAMs, just like India customised the Su-30 for their needs, it will customise their S-400 package.

Hmm, that's also true.

Anything , but these are absolutely important.
1. Ka226T 2. S70B 3. Rafales 4. Submarines.

The artillery , I personally think if we do the expected production run of our 155/45 Dhanush, a very huge pressure will not be there.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Anything , but these are absolutely important.
1. Ka226T 2. S70B 3. Rafales 4. Submarines.

The need for the S-70B should be ringing alarm bells within the MoD, it simply can't be overstated how much the IN needs them.

As for the Ka-226T, I'm indifferent whether it progresses now that the HAL LUH is nearing induction and the entire USP of the foreign RSH was meant to be rapid induction covering the shortfall until the HAL LUH arrives. At this rate, it will only beat the HAL LUH by 1-2 years.

+ addtionally, the GoI made the political call to not go for the bird the IAF/IA had selected (FENNEC) but the Ka-226T instead.

The artillery , I personally think if we do the expected production run of our 155/45 Dhanush, a very huge pressure will not be there.

The Dhanush only takes care of one part of the artillery shortfall- towed 155 guns. There is still a VAST requirement for SPGs, MGSs and ULHs. The SPG is being taken care of by L&T (K-9) which will also need to be paid for in the next FY, the MGS should come in the next 10 months and the ULH is a vital requirement for the MSC, without it they will be toothless and hence the MoD has seen sense and got the production line brought to India with Mahindra as a partner. The nature of modern warfare is mobility, mobility, mobility and hence the SPG, MGS and ULH are very much a neccesity.

Remember, the IA has not inducted a SINGLE new gun across the board since the 80s.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Actually no. As soon as Pakistan officially accepts that it has its hands on Chinese S300V copies we will be under immense pressure to get S400 , it does not matter at what cost it comes.

And very likely they will display their new toy in their parade.

Source: SIPRI

FM-80/Crotale is for their naval version of HQ-7
FM-90 is an export version and further enhancement of HQ-7 and is now called HQ-7A
Wiki says this

HQ-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Auspower says this
HQ-7/FM-80/FM-90 / CSA-4 Sino-Crotale Missile Design

CPMIEC HQ-7/FM-80/FM-90 / CSA-4/CSA-5 Sino-Crotale SelfPropelled Air Defence System

LY80 - its a MRSAM. Its range is under 50 Km and army recognition in fact says 42 km
HQ-16A LY-80 ground to air defence missile system technical data sheet specifications pictures video | China Chinese army missile systems vehicles | Chinese China army military equipment armoured UK

As of now they dont possess any S-300 copies.. Of course when India purchases S-400, i expect them at least one or 2 system near the china investment zones or CPEC

 

[satishkumarcsc]

So you know something that the review committee does not know.?

Or it is just political elbowing?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

View attachment 298250

Source: SIPRI

FM-80/Crotale is for their naval version of HQ-7
FM-90 is an export version and further enhancement of HQ-7 and is now callecamw7A
Wiki says this
View attachment 298254
HQ-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Auspower says this
HQ-7/FM-80/FM-90 / CSA-4 Sino-Crotale Missile Design

View attachment 298257

CPMIEC HQ-7/FM-80/FM-90 / CSA-4/CSA-5 Sino-Crotale SelfPropelled Air Defence System

LY80 - its a MRSAM. Its range is under 50 Km and army recognition in fact says 42 km
HQ-16A LY-80 ground to air defence missile system technical data sheet specifications pictures video | China Chinese army missile systems vehicles | Chinese China army military equipment armoured UK

As of now they dont possess any S-300 copies.. Of course when India purchases S-400, i expect them at least one or 2 system near the china investment zones or CPEC

I was conveyed that they have acquired HQ16 and work is going on HQ9 derivative. So SIPRI won't say anything.

As untill Pakistan themselves revealed the Fm90, only then we knew officially.

The actual push for S400 came,from intelligence about their (Pakistan's ) discussions with the Chinese for these.

And the person who conveyed this seemed much more than " pretty sure ".

The need for the S-70B should be ringing alarm bells within the MoD, it simply can't be overstated how much the IN needs them.

As for the Ka-226T, I'm indifferent whether it progresses now that the HAL LUH is nearing induction and the entire USP of the foreign RSH was meant to be rapid induction covering the shortfall until the HAL LUH arrives. At this rate, it will only beat the HAL LUH by 1-2 years.

+ addtionally, the GoI made the political call to not go for the bird the IAF/IA had selected (FENNEC) but the Ka-226T instead.




The Dhanush only takes care of one part of the artillery shortfall- towed 155 guaThere is still a VAST requirement for SPGs, MGSs and ULHs. The SPG is being taken care of by L&T (K-9) which will also need to be paid for in the next FY, the MGS should come in the next 10 months and the ULH is a vital requirement for the MSC, without it they will be toothless and hence the MoD has seen sense and got the production line brought to India with Mahindra as a partner. The nature of modern warfare is mobility, mobility, mobility and hence the SPG, MGS and ULH are very much a neccesity.

Remember, the IA has not inducted a SINGLE new gun across the board since the 80s.

For LUH role, see our LUH hasn't even completed its first flight. If I say that it will complete its first flight tomorrow, then it will take atleast a year for IOC and then 1 more for FOC. Meaning , it won't be available before 2018.

But for the Ka226T, the first batch of 40-50 airframes will be delivered by Russia itself, meaning we need not wait for an Indian production line to start for receiving the first airframe.

And just two days ago we lost another Cheetah , and I believe that even 40 new airframes of Ka226T at the hands of army aviation will relieve much stress.

As for artillery, yes. Correct everything needs to be covered. But I meant that the MGS system will not be signed before the next FY , so space was there when we only move on Dhanush and K9s. M777s, personally shouldn't be rushed, because as we speak the MSC has only started its formation, and will need proper 7-8 years for deployment at their intended places.

MSC will need a whole new range of weaponry, M777s, Apache, Chinook, C130Js, T90MS, and new primary arm issues.

 

[Abingdonboy]

For LUH role, see our LUH hasn't even completed its first flight. If I say that it will complete its first flight tomorrow, then it will take atleast a year for IOC and then 1 more for FOC. Meaning , it won't be available before 2018.

But for the Ka226T, the first batch of 40-50 airframes will be delivered by Russia itself, meaning we need not wait for an Indian production line to start for receiving the first airframe.

True that it is time critical but I still think that all the dithering on the RSH has meant there will be huge overlap between the RSH and LUH inductions now almost making the former irrelevent. The RSH deal made sense 4 years ago but the "Saint" killed it.

As for artillery, yes. Correct everything needs to be covered. But I meant that the MGS system will not be signed before the next FY , so space was there when we only move on Dhanush and K9s. M777s, personally shouldn't be rushed, because as we speak the MSC has only started its formation, and will need proper 7-8 years for deployment at their intended places.

It's not about rushing anything but laying the groundwork. The M777 deal has been hanging fire for years and only now is being finalised with the deal to be signed in 2016 for production to commence in India in 2018. By the time the MSC is at full strength they wil have their M777s and will be well versed in them- ideal.

MSC will need a whole new range of weaponry, M777s, Apache, Chinook, C130Js, T90MS, and new primary arm issues.

Bascially all of this has been cleared and is in the delivery phase, isn't it?

 

[randomradio]

Bad idea......as always. We need SR and MR SAMs. Our rivals are right beside us and we might engage them at more shorter ranges. The S 400 might be a great system but it is more of a strategic system compared to the MR and SR SAMs that are more tactical in nature. Hope We get more Akash MK1 and MK2 along with Spyder systems.

He appears to be aiming to kill the Maitri SAM project.

And inducting 100 each of MR and SR SAM is redundant because of the S-400.

Which means, he is probably making a play to induct more S-400s over time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

He appears to be aiming to kill the Maitri SAM project.
.

Not accurate at all @randomradio the Maitri has nothing to do with the S-400 or the SR/MR SAM proposals. The Maitri is being pushed by the IN for their smaller vessels (OPVs and Corvettes) and thus is entirely seperate and needed regardless.

 

[randomradio]

Why the GoI has let the defence budget slip to as low as 1.65% of GDP that has created such a paucity of funds I don't know.

There hasn't been much growth. The nominal growth this year has been 9%, so the defence budget grew only by about 9%. And most of that was eaten by the pension budget.

Not accurate at all @randomradio the Maitri has nothing to do with the S-400 or the SR/MR SAM proposals. The Maitri is being pushed by the IN for their smaller vessels (OPVs and Corvettes) and thus is entirely seperate and needed regardless.

The plan was to develop the Indian Navy version first, and that would be followed by the IAF and IA versions. I was talking about the IAF only.