Manmohan Singh has issued an invitation to Nawaz to come to India.

[Spring Onion]

Snap, its a land locked state somewhere in the middle of Pak-Afgan border. Well seems like PTI got a tough job to do there.

LANDLOCK??????

 

[Ayush]

LANDLOCK??????

sahi to bola usne..something to laugh??

 

[Spring Onion]

sahi to bola usne..something to laugh??

aray bhai how it is landlock by the way ?

 

[Ayush]

aray bhai how it is landlock by the way ?

khyber pakhtunkhwa is a land locked state,aint it??

 

[Spring Onion]

khyber pakhtunkhwa is a land locked state,aint it??

to some extent yeh we dont have a sea . But our trade has more landroutes to neighbouring countries and we are way to CARs

 

[Wood]

Listen you don't have to go to Kashmir border now. Just do some research.

One simple way to figure out the events is to look at the time line:


Nov-Dec -1998: Indians pack up for the winter and leave the forward positions on the high peaks of Kargil
--- Both Paks and Indis have been doing this for years.
-- However this time Pakistanis have trouble in their minds

Jan 1999- Pakistanis move in (this is an unheard of to move men and material in that fing cold and snow)

-- Indians figure it out right then and say "Oh $hit"
-- Next few weeks: there is hectic communication between the two side
-- Pakistanis say, you vacate Siachin, we vacate Kargil
-- Indians refuse to negotiate, however the cold winter snow and ice means no action can be taken until May

Feb 20, 1999:
-- Bajpai in Lahore, meets NS. Pleads for pull back
-- NS consults Musharraf. (Musharraf repeats the Pakistani position of linking Siachin and Kargil)
-- Bajpai goes home without any deal


Indian army prepares plans.

May 1999
-- War begins.


From Pakistani POV, it was a $tupid war. We didn't consider one important factor in our calculation. Air power and precision guided bombs to be used by IAF.

Rest is they say is history.



You are correct. If Indians knew about this, Bajpai would have been BBQ'd live. Hence the conspiracy and media misinformation.



peace4

I'll admit that the timelines do seem to support your hypothesis. But you still need the assumption that India had the capability to detect foreign presence on the mountain tops immediately after the occupation. How can we gauge the merit of this assumption?

For the moment though, lets take that the above assumption is true to the word. If Vajpayee did know about the threat in Kargil before the Lahore trip, then why would he not order a military response straight away?

1) Did he simply not trust the Indian Army to get the job done?
2) Was he naive enough to think that after pulling all your troops to the mountain top, PA would simply climb down at the drop of a hat?
3) Did he want peace with Pakistan more than Nawaz wanted peace with India?
4) Was he afraid of a nuclear escalation?

It is difficult to comprehend his motive here. Especially when you think that any Indian politician who supports an armed conflict is quickly elevated to stardom.

Thanks for your patient reply to my previous posts. Like you say, peace

 

[cyphercide]

These are signs of a man desperately trying to mend his legacy so that the history books talk of him in a kinder light.


Mr. Singh, you will be looked upon with the same degree of contempt fifty years from now as you are seen today. Make no mistake about it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I'll admit that the timelines do seem to support your hypothesis. But you still need the assumption that India had the capability to detect foreign presence on the mountain tops immediately after the occupation. How can we gauge the merit of this assumption?

For the moment though, lets take that the above assumption is true to the word. If Vajpayee did know about the threat in Kargil before the Lahore trip, then why would he not order a military response straight away?

1) Did he simply not trust the Indian Army to get the job done?
2) Was he naive enough to think that after pulling all your troops to the mountain top, PA would simply climb down at the drop of a hat?
3) Did he want peace with Pakistan more than Nawaz wanted peace with India?
4) Was he afraid of a nuclear escalation?

It is difficult to comprehend his motive here. Especially when you think that any Indian politician who supports an armed conflict is quickly elevated to stardom.

Thanks for your patient reply to my previous posts. Like you say, peace

You have to know the geography my dear. Geography is the main driver in any war.


Indians knew they could go to war but not until it warms up. This is what happened and happened in May 1999.


I cannot read Bajpai's mind. Perhaps he should write a book someday Musharraf style


My guess is the following:


--- Indians army posted on Siachin could have starved / ran out of bullets,fuel,bombs if Kargil peaks were in Pakistani control for an extended period of time

--- May be may be may be he was worried about the impact on Indian economy. (I say may be may be may be).



Here are simple steps for understanding any war.

1. Know the time line
2. know the weapons available
3. know the economy of the parties involved


And you can figure out why and who did what. It is not that hard.

Remember the guy with a candy in his mouth couldn't talk. You didn't have to see the candy to see what's going on.


peace

 

[Soumitra]

He had told in an interview to NDTV that he will come to India even if we don't invite him

It is better to invite him then have him as an uninvited guest.

Though I sincerely hope he can stick to his promise of controlling the Army and ISI and normalising relations with India. We lost an opportunity with the Lahore Bus Yatra but hope it is revived

 

[Bang Galore]

Listen you don't have to go to Kashmir border now. Just do some research.

One simple way to figure out the events is to look at the time line:


Nov-Dec -1998: Indians pack up for the winter and leave the forward positions on the high peaks of Kargil
--- Both Paks and Indis have been doing this for years.
-- However this time Pakistanis have trouble in their minds

Jan 1999- Pakistanis move in (this is an unheard of to move men and material in that fing cold and snow)

-- Indians figure it out right then and say "Oh $hit"
-- Next few weeks: there is hectic communication between the two side
-- Pakistanis say, you vacate Siachin, we vacate Kargil
-- Indians refuse to negotiate, however the cold winter snow and ice means no action can be taken until May

Feb 20, 1999:
-- Bajpai in Lahore, meets NS. Pleads for pull back
-- NS consults Musharraf. (Musharraf repeats the Pakistani position of linking Siachin and Kargil)
-- Bajpai goes home without any deal


Indian army prepares plans.

May 1999
-- War begins.


From Pakistani POV, it was a $tupid war. We didn't consider one important factor in our calculation. Air power and precision guided bombs to be used by IAF.

Rest is they say is history.



You are correct. If Indians knew about this, Bajpai would have been BBQ'd live. Hence the conspiracy and media misinformation.



peace4

Nice story but that is about all this is. I don't know what you know about governments but the Congress has been in power for 9 years now. If there was any truth to the "story" the Congress would have had a whale of a time burying the BJP with it, especially when under constant attack from the BJP. Simply another make believe story .

 

[jaunty]

I am not sure if I like such an early invitation from the Indian govt. We should be pragmatic in pursuing our relationship with Pakistan. History tells us that superficial "dramabaazi" of "bhaichara" has always backfired. From an Indian point of view let's not jump the gun too soon, let's see how everything plays out in Pakistan. Let's see if Nawaz Shariff govt can or willing to address our concerns vis-a-vis terrorism, particularly Mumbai. Let's take one step at a time.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

India always wanted more transit aid from Pakistan. Manmohan is in obvious hurry.

For the Nth TIME MAN: THE WORLD DON'T REVOLVE AROUND PAKISTAN, IT"S GEO STRATEGIC LOCATION etc.

Why can't you look at the invitation as just that?