Man beating in Saudi Arabia raises questions over expat rights in kingdom

[al-Hasani]

@kalu_miah iah is not the one who is apologizing @hinduguy. We Saudi Arabian users here have apologized one after one and made a lot of posts to condemn this savage behavior in this very own thread by those two clowns that happen to be Saudi Arabians. Whether they are Saudi Arabians from the Eastern Province, Nejd, Hijaz etc. or Saudi Arabians of Yemeni, Iraqi, Syrian or maybe even non-Arab origin longer back etc. does not matter here at all. They are Saudi Arabian nationals who are embarrassing the whole country through their idiotic and shameful behavior.

Kalu_Miah is not obligated to apologize for anything. We are. Just like you have to apologize on the behalf of Indian people if India gets bad publicity due to rapes for example. Or other unfortunate instances that every country and people deals with.

All Kalu_Miah briefly mentioned in 1 single post (not even his first in this debate - far from it) was that the individual might have made inappropriate sexual advancements to this clowns wife to which I replied that this was highly unlikely and even if that was the case that other measures could be taken.

Kalu_Miah strikes me as an intelligent, independent, thoughtful and intellectual person that also seems to be a practicing Muslim or at least a person who identifies with Islamic culture. At least from what I have seen and written with him. Then people can disagree with some of his views or not. He is certainly not a troll at all or a person that just follows suits because member x or y says so.

And in our culture superiority towards people of a certain descent, social class, ethnic group, financial position, political position, appearance etc. is not acceptable.

Nor do I think that he or any other South Asian here (at least they should not) consider them superior to Arabs or any other people or inferior for that matter.

So I find it rather shocking that people are implying that in their posts. I kindly suggest that people reread the thread. Often I have noticed that people just comment based on the first post of a thread and the title instead of trying to read the whole discussion and notice where it has reached and what is now discussed.

 

[kalu_miah]

you have a soft spot for SA no issues... ( I have for egypt because they got the pyramids... )
but does it mean you should have a slavish attitude towards each arab?
I understand one should not condemn all arabs for action of 2 guys, but apologizing on behalf of bangladeshi (who might not even be bangladeshi) is going a bit far, I am pretty sure most arabs will be red faced in embarrassment.

I am pretty sure he is Bangladeshi:
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1054590
I have also heard his Bengali accent, it does not sound like he is from West Bengal.

I have no slavish attitude to anyone, it is just that most people here cannot figure out where I am coming from and expect that as a Bangladeshi I will be blind to any of fault of this Bangladeshi guy which might have triggered this situation and automatically take his side.

If the Bangladeshi guy was involved in an inappropriate act to the wife of a person of the host country, a person who trusted him with a job that gave him a livelihood, I have no problem apologizing for that indiscretion to our Saudi brothers, which probably have made this guy upset and loose his temper.

But then, I have also condemned the beating here in this post:
https://defence.pk/threads/man-beat...-rights-in-kingdom.285813/page-5#post-4918068

We do not have all the facts, and we are not judge or jury here, let the Saudi system take its due course, I have confidence that it will be fair.

 

[al-Hasani]

@kalu_miah actually I want to see Bangladesh actively taking a stance and demanding that the perpetrators should be punished or at least inform their Saudi Arabian counterparts of the need for that. The Saudi Arabian society has both on the virtual world as well as on the street spoken clearly and found the scene very inappropriate and unacceptable. For the act alone and also for the publicity and effect it had. I will follow this case until I see those two charged and I am even inclined to write a letter to the higher circles of KSA society and demand justice to be done.

Maybe I am overreacting since some people might just argue that this is a little beating and a few humiliating words and that this also happens to poor Saudi Arabians and that this is not necessarily a sign of racism but just taking advantage of a weaker person etc. but this is very much about the perception and idea of a whole country and people that is being portrayed in a very wrong way. And acceptable way in the opinion of any sane Saudi Arabian.

If used for propaganda caused by certain people with certain hostile agendas it can be used to demonize a whole people and country and make others hostile to a country and people they only know from a few youtube clips and articles in The Sun. Largely all negatives for reasons such as those. For who wants to report positives from the Muslim and Arab world today? Not many and those that do are drowned in all the negativities.

This is an extremely serious and worrying matter and I have been thinking about the consequences of a video like the one in this thread and for that I demand a harsh punishment.

Some people are just idiots who don't think about the consequences. We see that every minute and some of us are guilty of the same just obviously in a much smaller scale and in different ways.

 

[kalu_miah]

Lol, kill the zombies

In all seriousness, the worker and the abuser don't represent both societies' moral principles and the Islamic code of ethics taught by Allah SWT in the Quran and his prophet PBUH in the Sunnah. What a shameful act indeed by that Saudi guy.

Well said bro. My salute to your new flag. Thank you. May our two nations become closer and may all Muslims, specially Sunni Muslims, come close to each together. We can only depend on each other and no one else.

Imagine if this man or someone like him, a million of them from Bangladesh and other Sunni nations, if we train them up and let loose in the fields of Syria. Fighting for each other will bring us even closer. The other side has done it. I hope some day I will see that happening in our side, Insha-Allah, may be after we suffer a little more.

 

[KingMamba]

Are my eyes seeing it correctly? Are you really apologizing on behalf of the worker?

In some parts of Afghanistan, girls and boys talking to each other can result in their heads being chopped off too! So it doesn't mean that their families should apologize the killers because of 'wrong manners' of their children, instead, the society should overcome such backward mentalities. That's the correct way.
I don't know what this poor worker has said exactly to this man's wife, but if it was a simple conversation without any ill intentions, the convict should be punished severely.
By speaking like this, you are 'inviting' others to look down upon your people anywhere in the world, even if that's not your intention.

Well @kalu_miah has no self respect so it is not surprising that he is apologizing.

Good news is that Saudis have actually attempted to punish the guys in the video.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Well @kalu_miah has no self respect so it is not surprising that he is apologizing.

Good news is that Saudis have actually attempted to punish the guys in the video.

Why so nasty at Kaul?

LoLz. That's the least we can do to a savage like this guy





 
Nothing wrong was done at the poor Bengal guy's end, but clearly, it was none other than Saudi guy who abused someone for nothing.

This guy should be punished and SEVERELY.

Bro, my apologies for such bad behavior by the worker. The worker should not have talked to the guy's wife. But the kind of people that go to do menial jobs, these people do not have the best of manners and ethics, because of the socio-economic level they come from. In Bangladesh also he would get a severe beating, if he talked to someones wife on the phone, by stealing the phone number. If someone try's to make a pass at my wife, I would get pretty mad too. Because of what this guy did, I think he should get some punishment as well and the punishment for the guy who beat him up, should not be as severe, as it was the worker's indiscretion that initiated this mess.

But enemy's have put your society under microscope, one slip and they will blow it out of proportion.

In any case, I am glad that Saudi govt. is looking into it and will deal with this matter according to Saudi law.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah actually I want to see Bangladesh actively taking a stance and demanding that the perpetrators should be punished or at least inform their Saudi Arabian counterparts of the need for that. The Saudi Arabian society has both on the virtual world as well as on the street spoken clearly and found the scene very inappropriate and unacceptable. For the act alone and also for the publicity and effect it had. I will follow this case until I see those two charged and I am even inclined to write a letter to the higher circles of KSA society and demand justice to be done.

Maybe I am overreacting since some people might just argue that this is a little beating and a few humiliating words and that this also happens to poor Saudi Arabians and that this is not necessarily a sign of racism but just taking advantage of a weaker person etc. but this is very much about the perception and idea of a whole country and people that is being portrayed in a very wrong way. And acceptable way in the opinion of any sane Saudi Arabian.

If used for propaganda caused by certain people with certain hostile agendas it can be used to demonize a whole people and country and make others hostile to a country and people they only know from a few youtube clips and articles in The Sun. Largely all negatives for reasons such as those. For who wants to report positives from the Muslim and Arab world today? Not many and those that do are drowned in all the negativities.

This is an extremely serious and worrying matter and I have been thinking about the consequences of a video like the one in this thread and for that I demand a harsh punishment.

Some people are just idiots who don't think about the consequences. We see that every minute and some of us are guilty of the same just obviously in a much smaller scale and in different ways.

I am sure Bangladesh embassy and Ambassador will do their job in making sure that the victim gets due compensation and the perpetrator gets justice.

But notice what is happening, just as you said, people are making hay and blowing this out of proportion to bash Saudi Arabia, because they already have their axes to grind and some people may even do not like our two nations to have close relations. It is propaganda dream come true material for enemies of Arabs and Muslims and those who want to put Saudi's and Arab's in general in a bad light.

Just like we need to raise the standard of human behavior in Muslim countries with more human development, we also need to teach them about Public Relations and propaganda in the internet age. I think it has become an essential course to be taught in high school, college and universities, so all citizens become conscious of the consequences of their actions and how they can be used with malicious intent by the enemy.

 

[KingMamba]

Why so nasty at Kaul?

LoLz. That's the least we can do to a savage like this guy

@kalu_miah likes to act like an intellectual but has once again displayed his moral bankruptcy.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah likes to act like an intellectual but has once again displayed his moral bankruptcy.

As if your impression of me will make a difference on who I am or how I think, but you are welcome to keep beating a dead horse.

 

[Arabian Legend]

As if your impression of me will make a difference on who I am or how I think, but you are welcome to keep beating a dead horse.

Keep your head up as always no matter what others say.

 

[al-Hasani]

I am sure Bangladesh embassy and Ambassador will do their job in making sure that the victim gets due compensation and the perpetrator gets justice.

But notice what is happening, just as you said, people are making hay and blowing this out of proportion to bash Saudi Arabia, because they already have their axes to grind and some people may even do not like our two nations to have close relations. It is propaganda dream come true material for enemies of Arabs and Muslims and those who want to put Saudi's and Arab's in general in a bad light.

Just like we need to raise the standard of human behavior in Muslim countries with more human development, we also need to teach them about Public Relations and propaganda in the internet age. I think it has become an essential course to be taught in high school, college and universities, so all citizens become conscious of the consequences of their actions and how they can be used with malicious intent by the enemy.

I surely hope so. Friendly nations and people should point each others mistakes out and raise issues that are sometimes seen as hostile or even uncomfortable. This should only be a natural thing and not a sign of ill will as I see it. So Bangladesh should not hide back in this case or similar ones.

Well that was expected and unfortunately there is not much you, I or someone else can do until those individuals visit themselves and learn about the party that they see in a certain light. I am sure that people who want to follow a certain agenda will follow it no matter what. I am not worried about that. I am more worried about people who know little about Muslims, Arabs, KSA etc. will draw all their conclusions based on a video such as the one posted in this thread. Can you imagine their thoughts? Or what about a Muslim who naively thought that all Muslims on forums such as those will never have senseless debates and petty disagreements? He will think that Muslim unity is a impossible dream. Even among Pakistanis themselves!

Well, you are completely right about that. Once again the West is way ahead on that front. Let us just take Denmark as a example. I happen to live here temporarily right now due to studies. 6-7 years ago they or should I rather say 1 Danish journalist was behind those infamous Prophet Muhammad (saws) cartoons which I personally found very disrespectful obviously and a silly way of saying that freedom of speech is what it is, and it created a havoc in the Muslim world. Certain Danish products were boycotted, deals where cancelled, relations strained etc. But 1 year after due to a lot of "positive propaganda, trips, showing the other side" most of all this changed and now hardly anyone remembers it.

This is just a empty claim but I doubt any Muslim country would be able to do that in the wider world. Unfortunately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy

 

[livingdead]

@kalu_miah iah is not the one who is apologizing @hinduguy. We Saudi Arabian users here have apologized one after one and made a lot of posts to condemn this savage behavior in this very own thread by those two clowns that happen to be Saudi Arabians. Whether they are Saudi Arabians from the Eastern Province, Nejd, Hijaz etc. or Saudi Arabians of Yemeni, Iraqi, Syrian or maybe even non-Arab origin longer back etc. does not matter here at all. They are Saudi Arabian nationals who are embarrassing the whole country through their idiotic and shameful behavior.

Kalu_Miah is not obligated to apologize for anything. We are. Just like you have to apologize on the behalf of Indian people if India gets bad publicity due to rapes for example. Or other unfortunate instances that every country and people deals with.

All Kalu_Miah briefly mentioned in 1 single post (not even his first in this debate - far from it) was that the individual might have made inappropriate sexual advancements to this clowns wife to which I replied that this was highly unlikely and even if that was the case that other measures could be taken.

Kalu_Miah strikes me as an intelligent, independent, thoughtful and intellectual person that also seems to be a practicing Muslim or at least a person who identifies with Islamic culture. At least from what I have seen and written with him. Then people can disagree with some of his views or not. He is certainly not a troll at all or a person that just follows suits because member x or y says so.

And in our culture superiority towards people of a certain descent, social class, ethnic group, financial position, political position, appearance etc. is not acceptable.

Nor do I think that he or any other South Asian here (at least they should not) consider them superior to Arabs or any other people or inferior for that matter.

So I find it rather shocking that people are implying that in their posts. I kindly suggest that people reread the thread. Often I have noticed that people just comment based on the first post of a thread and the title instead of trying to read the whole discussion and notice where it has reached and what is now discussed.

This behaviour (bullying/abusing weaker person) is not unique to ME, have seen plenty in India, and pretty sure happens in rest of south asia.
I dont think you should apologize(unless you are the minister in charge of Law and order there) nor should kalu mian, its just an incident which we happen to see because somebody posted, the best thing to do is to condemn it and move on.
I have read quite a few of his posts, and intelligent he might be, he is quite open about his unabashed sectarian views. Am pretty sure if this happened in Iran or India, his 'guess' would be something different. (which he sort of admitted in reply to my question)

 

[KingMamba]

As if your impression of me will make a difference on who I am or how I think, but you are welcome to keep beating a dead horse.

That is the most shameful part that despite what anyone says you will continue to be the person that you are, tell me if someone spit in your face would you apologize to the man or just pat him on the back?

 

[SQ8]

I wonder what possible link this thread has to do with Wahabiism or Shia bickerings?
This is about an attitude that is prevalent in what is clearly an observable majority in the nation of Saudi Arabia. it is a Saudi Problem that has nothing to do with the problems of Pakistan, Iran, Bangladesh or Timbuktoo and hence no need to drag them into the thread as sheepish defence.
It has NOTHING to do with religion but rather to do with the mentality of certain Saudi's who think they are greater creatures than those they employ.
Hence, it fall upon Saudis to take the shame from this and to promote a solution to such problems.

 

[kalu_miah]

This behaviour (bullying/abusing weaker person) is not unique to ME, have seen plenty in India, and pretty sure happens in rest of south asia.
I dont think you should apologize(unless you are the minister in charge of Law and order there) nor should kalu mian, its just an incident which we happen to see because somebody posted, the best thing to do is to condemn it and move on.
I have read quite a few of his posts, and intelligent he might be, he is quite open about his unabashed sectarian views. Am pretty sure if this happened in Iran or India, his 'guess' would be something different. (which he sort of admitted in reply to my question)

It is not sectarian, I have explained it many times. Sorry to see you, one of the rare Indian whose posts sometimes make some sense, revert back to the same nonsense. It is called team building. If Shia's can have team spirit, so should the Sunni's, that essentially sums up my philosophy on this matter. If Iran can meddle in Syria, Yemen, Lebanon and Bahrain, I see nothing wrong with Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Turkey meddling as well in those places. If only our GCC brothers could gear up this team building as well as the Iranian theocracy, Syria in particular and Muslim world would be a different place.