Malaysia demographic engineering against non-Muslims

[Fattyacids]

The area denotes the region mentioned in Rigveda the earliest Sanskrit literature. I never said Sanskrit originated out of IVC, even the modern dialects of Hindi came in 10th Century. I only said Indians have cultural and genetic links with the people of Indus valley civilization.

Thanks for confirming is Sanskrit is not indigenous to India.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Sanskrit originated here in the Rigvedic Period.

If Sindhu refers to the Indus River, then that is not in India, but rather in Pakistan.

Along with the rest of the IVC.

 

[kalu_miah]

@Wholegrain I read your posts about heterogeneous origin of Malay elites in Malaysia. But isn't this a common factor in all societies? Invading "barbarians", more often than not nomads, become king and landed aristocracy and they eventually become the ruling elite? If a society is small and less densely populated, the indigenous population even loose their language and culture to the invaders. But if the population is sufficiently large and densely populated, the invaders loose their own culture and language and become assimilated. But in both cases some traces remain, whether it is language, culture or genetic. So isn't Malays in Malaysia following the same pattern?

The other thing I noticed is that Muslims happen to be most mixed breed people on earth, specially the ruling elite in any Muslim society. There were 2-3 dominant Muslim invading "barbarian" ethnic groups:

1. Arabs (land based and maritime migration)
2. proto-Turkics (land based migration)
3. Mongols (land based migration)

A Muslim elite in any country will have significant influence with one or more of above groups, with varying degrees of indigenous blood.

But regardless of genetic origin, a particular Muslim elite will rally around their local religious sect and local culture and language to unite the masses. Isn't this happening in Malaysia, just like in other places?

@al-Hasani you may find this thread interesting.

 

[Wholegrain]

@Wholegrain I read your posts about heterogeneous origin of Malay elites in Malaysia. But isn't this a common factor in all societies? Invading "barbarians", more often than not nomads, become king and landed aristocracy and they eventually become the ruling elite? If a society is small and less densely populated, the indigenous population even loose their language and culture to the invaders. But if the population is sufficiently large and densely populated, the invaders loose their own culture and language and become assimilated. But in both cases some traces remain, whether it is language, culture or genetic. So isn't Malays in Malaysia following the same pattern?

The other thing I noticed is that Muslims happen to be most mixed breed people on earth, specially the ruling elite in any Muslim society. There were 2-3 dominant Muslim invading "barbarian" ethnic groups:

1. Arabs (land based and maritime migration)
2. proto-Turkics (land based migration)
3. Mongols (land based migration)

A Muslim elite in any country will have significant influence with one or more of above groups, with varying degrees of indigenous blood.

But regardless of genetic origin, a particular Muslim elite will rally around their local religious sect and local culture and language to unite the masses. Isn't this happening in Malaysia, just like in other places?

@al-Hasani you may find this thread interesting.

Hadhrami Arabs in Hyderabad don't identify with any local Indian Muslim ethnic group, they kept their Arab identity. They speak Urdu. They were an elite class during the Nizam's rule.

In Indonesia too, Hadhrami Arabs identify as Aabs, not as the local Indonesian ethnic groups. They speak Bahasa Indonesia. Some of them ruled Sultanates like the Pontianak Sultanate.

But in Malaysia, they get turned into ethnic "Malays".

In Philippines, Moro does not refer to any one ethnic group. It refers to the different Muslim peoples in Mindanao, Sulu and Palawan. Nur Misuari even wants to expand the Bangsamoro to include the pagan natives of Mindanao and Palawan. They don't pretend to be one ethnic group. There are many Tausug Moros descended from Chinese in Sulu, the current Governor of ARMM is Abdusakur Tan and he comes from a politically prominent Chinese-Moro family in Jolo.

UMNO also hands out Malay ethnicity to any Muslim who will vote for their party. Its not just elites who get classified as Malay, they use the system to their advantage. A Ghanaian Muslim from Africa has a very low chance of ever getting citizenship in an Arab country, let alone "obtaining" Arab ethnicity. But in Malaysia, where UMNO desperately wants votes, they would immediately give him an ID card and classify him as Malay if it gives them an electoral advantage.

Qatar keeps its citizenship majority Arab by denying citizenship to non-Arabs, not by importing foreign Muslims and reclassifying them as Arab.

If Malaysia is concerned about demographic dominance of Malays, they should strip the citizenship of non-Malays instead of importing random people. Why do Arabs get to preserve their ethnic identity and real ethnic Malays don't?

This policy of handing out citizenship threatens the native Muslim populations of other countries. Due to this policy several hundred thousand Tausug Moros are now in Sabah and will never return to their homeland in tthe Philippines. Malaysia doesn't care if it sucks in all the Moros into Sabah and lets Philippines take over Mindanao and sUlu and make it majority Catholic.

 

[kalu_miah]

@Wholegrain

Urdu speaking Arabs in Hyderabad, India or Bahasa speaking Arabs in Indonesia, are examples of mixed people who remember some of their migrant ancestors. I have no direct knowledge about them, so don't know how different their identity is from other local Muslims.

Sabah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since independence in 1963, Sabah has undergone a significant change in its religious composition, particularly in the percentage of its population professing Islam. In 1960, the percentage of Muslims is 37.9%, Christians - 16.6%, while about one-third remained animist.[45] In 2010, the percentage of Muslims has increased to 65.4%, while people professing Christianity at 26.6% and Buddhism at 6.1%.

In 1973, USNO amended the Sabah Constitution to make Islam the religion of State of Sabah. USIA vigorously promote conversion of Sabahans natives to Islam by offering rewards and office position, and also through migration of Muslim immigrants from the Phillipines and Indonesia. Expulsion of Christian missionaries from the state were also performed to reduce Christian proselytisation of Sabahan natives.[46]

These policies were continued when Sabah was under the BERJAYA's administration headed by Datuk Harris, in which he openly exhorted to Muslims of the need to have a Muslim majority, to control the Christian Kadazans (without the help of the Chinese minority).[47] Filipino Muslims and other Muslim immigrants from Indonesia and even Pakistan were brought into the state to process thousands of identity cards for Sabah illegal immigrants in the early 1990s to help topple the PBS state government.[48]

As a result, this has significantly altered the demography of Sabah in just 50 years.

As of 2010 the population of Sabah follows:
2,096,153 Muslim
853,726 Christian
194,428 Buddhist
3037 Hindu
2495 Confucianism/Taoism
3467 followers of other religions
9850 non-religious
43,586 unknown religion

So even back 50 years ago, Muslims still had highest percentage at 38% vs 17% Christian, so Muslims were more than any other groups. Now the percentage is 65% Muslims vs 27% Christians. Even if they stopped this program now, Muslims will remain the biggest voting bloc.

Speaking of Arab countries giving citizenship due to demographic reason, I think Bahrain is an example, although I don't know the exact extent of it.

About giving out Malay ethnicity status, here is what I found about ties between Bumiputera status and religion, namely Islam:

Bumiputera status for Indian Muslims in the pipeline - Latest - New Straits Times

In his speech, Najib also emphasised that it was paramount for Muslims in the country to stay united
for their survival.

Citing an example, Najib who visited Gaza recently stressed the importance for Fatah and Hamas, the two prominent parties in Palestin to unite.

"I told leaders from both sides that without a unity government, it would be a bleak future for the Palestinians."

'It is the same case in Malaysian multi-ethnic society and especially among the Muslims to learn from
the Prophet Muhammad's success in uniting the Ansar and Muhajirin clans," he said.

Najib later announced a RM2 million contribution to Indian-Muslims non-governmental organisations
and 'madrasah' in the state.

The contribution came from the Indian-Muslims entrepreneurs and would be channeled via the Yayasan Rakyat 1Malaysia soon.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2969545/+20

Wassupman
post Sep 25 2013, 09:16 AM

Group: Junior Member
Posts: 397

Joined: Mar 2013

First understand the hierarchy, then you know who will benefit from the bumiputera privilege.

of course everyone knows the hierarchy goes like this.

1) UMNO putera
2) UMNO cronies
3) legal muslim immigrants (indon, bangla, thai) + all local malay muslims
4) muslim permanent residents
5) orang asli

dkk
post Sep 25 2013, 10:08 AM

Group: Elite
Posts: 8,224

Joined: Jan 2003

3 can be further subdivided into

3a local Malay Muslims
3b recent immigrant Malay Muslims
3c local non-Malay Muslims (Indian Muslim/Chinese Muslim families)
3d recent immigrant non-Malay Muslims (eg Indonesians)
3e local converts
3f recent immigrant converts

drfeelgood
post Yesterday, 11:46 PM

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,234

Joined: Nov 2012

QUOTE(danmooncake @ Sep 24 2013, 09:48 AM)
Well, there is also a small community in Northern Malaysia - Siamese Malaysian also are considered "bumi".
Some of them are Buddhist and some of Muslims. Majority of muslims of siamese descent are assimilated into Malay.
But, all of them seems to be natural born in Malaysia.
What I wasn't sure if ancientguy2 (TS) meant is what if a foreigner who immigrated from abroad but they're
of Malay descent (a Muslim) is considered a bumi by the govt whereas a foreigner who is a non-muslim cannot be a bumi because
he/she is not a muslim.

Is it by religion too, the govt makes the distinction of giving/granting preferential treatment to immigrants?
*
yes, preferential treatment is given based on religion of immigrants. ever heard of non muslim immigrants given shelter, pr cards etc in new east Bangladesh er I mean malaysia?

but you see thousands of indon, Myanmar, even sub human nigerians given preferential treatment so long they are muslim.

ricstc
post Yesterday, 11:51 PM

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 849

Joined: Apr 2010
From: Selangor

QUOTE(ancientguy2 @ Sep 23 2013, 03:58 PM)
As i understand , 2nd onwards generation of immigrant/convert muslims enjoy bumiputera status in Malaysia.

Children of Indonesian Malay Muslim Permanent Resident couples in malaysia , are BUMIPUTERA.

Children of Indonesian Malay Christian Permanent Resident couples in malaysia, remain NON-BUMIPUTERA ....

Why such a discrepancy , or is it all the while related to religion ?
inb4: Orang- Asli christians are also bumis.
*
Sharing. My friend who is chinese converted to islam because he wanted bumi status as it was a condition to get bumi business contract.

Seems that if you convert to islam then you get bumi contract (worth it cos it's a few million RM in business worth). So looks like being a muslim in malaysia means being a bumi?

Confusing but he refused to discuss this except to say that 'he has to survive'. Nice friend to have huh? At least he always spend me at 5 star hotel nod.gif Nice converting to be muslim

So, in conclusion, it seems to me that Bumiputera status had always been tied to religion and it is still that way, with one exception, the Aboriginals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orang_Asli

 

[Lux de Veritas]

In Malaysia, it is a crime to remember Prophet Muhammad's grandson.

Now Malaysian Malay Sunni Muslims are in a very dangerous mental state. They are very radical today, yet the state medium keep on harping that Malay Muslims are "moderate", and other sects and races are sieging on Malay Sunni Muslims. This give them a mentality of victim and in reality, Malaysian Malay are racist bully against all minorities there.

Their politicians often brandish sabre, vowing to man handle any opponents. Their theatrics gain a lot of support in Malaysia as many Malay Muslims bullies sincerely believe that they are victims of their minorities.

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20101220/mdavari20101220173556640.jpg

A religious scholar in Malaysia blasts the arrest of more than 200 Muslim Shias, including Iranians, Indonesians and Pakistanis, at an Ashura mourning ceremony.


"Malaysia is trying to become a country a la Taliban that only allows one school of thought," prominent Muslim scholar Asri Zainul Abidin said.

"Even though I personally don't agree with Shia teachings and even frequently criticize and debate with them, I cannot accept the approach of the allegedly democratic Malaysian government in denying the people's right to practice their faith," he said.

Nurhamizah Othman, a public relations officer at the Selangor Islamic Religious Department said the detainees have all been released on bail, except for two Iranians.

Among the detainees were lecturers and students of higher-education as well as lawyers and government employees believed to have been operating in the area for nearly two years, Othman said.

The Islamic court of Malaysia is expected to charge those arrested with 'following a deviationist movement,' which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail, the PR officer added.

On Ashura day, Shia Muslims hold mourning ceremonies to pay homage to martyred Imam Hossein (PBUH), the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), and the martyrdom of 72 of his companions and family members in Karbala, Iraq, over 1,300 years ago. They were martyred while fighting for justic

 

[INDIC]

If Sindhu refers to the Indus River, then that is not in India, but rather in Pakistan.

Ancient Indians didn't know about Radcliffe line although Indus flows in India before it enters Pakistan. BTW do you know both Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and President Mamnoon Hussain were native to Indian side(Jullandhar and Agra respectively), their family migrated to Pakistan in 1947.

Along with the rest of the IVC.

You are simply misinformed.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/217168-ivc-sites-india.html

 

[INDIC]

Thanks for confirming is Sanskrit is not indigenous to India.

I have posted the cemetery H region, watch it again.

 

[sahaliyan]

Aren't Chinese too came from East Africa, like everyone. Indians have ancestry from Indo-Aryans and there is no proof Sanskrit originated out of India. Earliest reference to Sanskrit language is Rigveda refering to North India.



Indians are only 6% of Singapore's population but Singapore has an Indian name(Singha=Lion, Pore=City) instead of a Chinese one.

I think Indians make up 9% of Singapore's population,and maybe there are more Indians in Singapore now

 

[INDIC]

I think Indians make up 9% of Singapore's population,and maybe there are more Indians in Singapore now

Was it always the 9%.

 

[sahaliyan]

PAP are mostly Chinese, they are not against Chinese culture per se. It was the communist ideology, which was prevalent among the Chinese masses, that they were targeting. After the red scare of the 60's and socialist politicians jailed, it was Lee Kuan Yew who promoted Mandarin Chinese. He even sent his sons to Chinese school.

Who closed the Nanyang University?In China,everythings are taught in Chinese,the students only learn English in limited times,can we say the same in Singapore?Your schools teach Chinese just like the schools in China teach English,this is not the Chinese education system,you can see it in China and Malaysia
And in places like Xinjiang,Tibet and Inner Mongolia,for minority students,there are two systems for their choose.One is native language schools,everything like maths,history,physics and so on taught in minotity languages,they should learn Mandarin in limited times.And another system is everything taught in China,and their mother tongue taught in limited times

 

[Fattyacids]

Who closed the Nanyang University?In China,everythings are taught in Chinese,the students only learn English in limited times,can we say the same in Singapore?Your schools teach Chinese just like the schools in China teach English,this is not the Chinese education system,you can see it in China and Malaysia
And in places like Xinjiang,Tibet and Inner Mongolia,for minority students,there are two systems for their choose.One is native language schools,everything like maths,history,physics and so on taught in minotity languages,they should learn Mandarin in limited times.And another system is everything taught in China,and their mother tongue taught in limited times

Everyone in China knows Singapore is not China, two different countries with different socio-political landscapes. Are you even Chinese?

 

[sahaliyan]

Everyone in China knows Singapore is not China, two different countries with different socio-political landscapes. Are you even Chinese?

Of course,I'm Chinese.我当然是中国人，我的祖先在清朝的时候属于整白旗满洲

 

[Fattyacids]

Of course,I'm Chinese.我当然是中国人，我的祖先在清朝的时候属于整白旗满洲

Then you should know many Singaporeans are straits-born Chinese, you cannot judge their education system using our own standard.

 

[sahaliyan]

Then you should know many Singaporeans are straits-born Chinese, you cannot judge their education system using our own standard.

But they are ethnic Chinese after all,even the Chinese in Malaysia have a Chinese edycation system,they even have their own college