What's new

Makkah should be a separate state

Status
Not open for further replies.
hours-later-in-the-martyrs-cemetery-we-see-miles-of-graves--they-all-belong-to-children-young-adults-rarely-anyone-over-the-age-of-25-all-those-who-died-in-the-iraq-iran-war-a-brutal-conflict-that-involved-massive-use-of-chemical-weapons.jpg


539092462_1ec95cf00a.jpg


------------

Grave Business in Iran

23 Dec 2010

In Tehran cemeteries, rich and poor, loyal soldiers and dissidents are marked according to their status in death as in life.

In the cemeteries of Tehran, each gravestone tells a story. One grave has an expensive headstone engraved with an image of the deceased or religious symbols, while another is marked by a simple slab. A soldier killed in the war with Iraq is commemorated for his courage, while people executed for their political beliefs are remembered only by a few broken pieces of stone.

Cemeteries are among the few places where Persian poetry is a visible presence. Many gravestones carry a line or two by a poet, classic or modern -- "If you come to see me, come gently and slowly," or "One whose heart was sustained on love will never die."

Poetry is a favored form of commemoration whether or not the deceased had any interest in literature.

When an interment takes place, the undertakers provide, for a fee, a simple headstone bearing the individual's name and date of birth and death.

For most families, this is not enough, and they will spend up to US$1,500 on a moderately ornate gravestone -- six months' wages for a manual laborer in Iran. A truly fancy one made of imported marble or granite could come to $25,000.

According to Islamic tradition in Iran, graves were usually covered with a horizontal stone. But these days they commonly have a vertical headstone as well, often with a portrait of the deceased. At least one manufacturer offers digitally printed color images.

DigitalGravestone.jpg


It is as much about the social standing of the family as remembering the dead. Traditional attitudes demand an impressive monument if one is to avoid accusations of indifference to the dead.

"We have an album showing different designs that people can choose from depending on how much they want to spend and what their social position is," Mahmoud, a gravestone seller, said.

The gravestone business is booming, and with it imports of the appropriate kinds of stone, even though Iran has plenty of quarries of its own. Imports from Greece, Brazil, India, and China are now common, although stone from the latter two countries is regarded as inferior and liable to crack.

Yusef, who designs and sells gravestones from a shop close to the Behesht-e Zahra cemetery in southern Tehran, says that in the 20 years he has been in the trade, customers have become increasingly demanding, seeking ever more ornate models.

"Once there were just 30 of us taking commissions for this cemetery, and we just engraved the name of the deceased on the stone. But as soon as it became possible to print portraits of the dead onto stone, everybody asked for it," he said.

Now, he said, "sometimes people spend so much on the burial and gravestone that they have to borrow money to be able to pay for it."

"People see it as very important to decorate the gravestones of their dead," he added, noting that such views persisted even though some senior Shia clerics disapprove of so much show.

Until about 15 years ago, Tehran residents were able to use more or less any design they liked, and gravestones were placed so haphazardly that some sections of Behesht-e Zahra become dangerous when it was wet.

The authorities subsequently imposed restrictions on design and inscriptions, and required that installation be carried out by cemetery administrators.

In other parts of Iran, the new rules have yet to be applied as rigorously as in the capital.

The 200,000 soldiers and civilians killed in the eight-year war with Iraq in the 1980s form a special category. Their graves are carefully tended, as surviving relatives try to keep their memory alive. Their gravestones often have a box containing personal items like wedding rings or flowers.

"The stone and box have been here for almost 30 years now," said a woman whose 20-year-old son, Hamid, was killed in the war. "It's like my son's home now. I come here every weekend, wash his gravestone, and clean the box, just like when I cleaned his room."

Meanwhile, those who fell foul of the system in life are deprived of any kind of grave marker.

"Every time I put a simple stone on my son's grave, some people break it, but I don't give up and I put another gravestone there," said Azam, whose son was executed in the 1980s for opposing the Islamic Republic.

The new rules are now being used against her, as she has been told she cannot bring a gravestone inside the cemetery without permission from administrators.

In a western corner of Behesht-e Zahra's Section 38, there is an expanse of arid land that contrasts with its green surroundings. Dozens of top military officers who conspired in a failed assassination plot against Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in the early months after the Islamic Revolution are buried in a mass grave here.

The Khavaran neighbourhood in southeastern Tehran is believed to be the burial place of hundreds of political prisoners executed in the 1980s. Although it is not known exactly who is buried here, relatives of those executed have tried to place a memorial at the site, but have been prevented from doing so by the security forces.

Farshid Alyan is the pseudonym of a Tehran-based journalist and photographer.

Grave Business in Iran - Tehran Bureau | FRONTLINE | PBS
 
I don't like shrines either, but I like to go to these places, see how they lived, take a picture there. It's education not reverence.

I go to graves (and have even been to a few Shrines) to recite Fatiha and pray for the dead, not ask the dead to pray for me.

The birth place of Holy Prophet is not destroyed- it has been turned into a library-
i do occassionaly see people specialy south asian praying there- some performing salah in that direction- :sick:-

Fatiha is ok- darood o salam is ok- like we do in Madinah where Holy Prophet SAW is resting-
i am glad this holy place is not in our part of the world- it would have been complaete nuisance-

The graves are not destroyed- they are leveled- no marking no tomb- no one knows who lies where- specificaly to make people not worship them- 'shirk'-
 
Page badlo, tofan aa raha hai

But I have seen Sunnis also burying their dead, with the fresh grave finally solidified with a formal decorative tombstone (Dulha Dulhan Kabrastan in Pune).
 
The birth place of Holy Prophet is not destroyed- it has been turnede into a library-
i do occassionaly see people specialy south asian praying there- some performing salah in that direction- :sick:-

Fatiha is ok- darood o salam is ok- like we do in Madinah where Holy Prophet SAW is resting-
i am glad this holy place is not in our part of the world- it would have been complaete nuisance-

The graves are not destroyed- they are leveled- no marking no tomb- no one knows who lies where- specificaly to make people not worship them- 'shirk'-

You can see many Indian and Pakistanis praying towards the direction of Prophet's grave. Shirk in the heartland of Islam. Thank God for the mutawa there that try to control these activities or else the new direction of prayer in Madinah city would be Prophet's grave.
 
Praying at the graves of elders and saints is a tradition among Turks. It is not worshipping, just remembering the passed ones and wishing better in the afterlife.

I stand against the interpretation of Islam only Arab way. If one person cant accept differences, then he/she (I am talking outside of the members) should know Allah created the differences and STFU.

The bolded part has it's own set ways in religion (Quran, Hadith and Sunnah) on how it has to be done.
 
I like visiting the graves of my elders, touching the soil, weeping for them. Call it heterodoxy. I dont mind.

I must say that it continues to be brought home to me that the fate of a moderate well assimilated Islam in the global fabric lies in the hands of your people.

Show the way for others to folow.
 
You can see many Indian and Pakistanis praying towards the direction of Prophet's grave. Shirk in the heartland of Islam. Thank God for the mutawa there that try to control these activities or else the new direction of prayer in Madinah city would be Prophet's grave.

Exactly-
You see Saudis know exactly what they are doing-
Some times they force- that exactly how you control the unguided strayed shirk laden mass-

There is a logic in every rule they enforce-
 
I must say that it continues to be brought home to me that the fate of a moderate well assimilated Islam in the global fabric lies in the hands of your people.

Show the way for others to folow.

Some religious rules and Arabic traditions cannot apply to other cultures. That clash has been going since who knows when.
 
I like visiting the graves of my elders, touching the soil, weeping for them. Call it heterodoxy. I dont mind.



I do the same when i visit the graves of the dear ones- I pray for them- cry for them-
but-
i do not ask forgiveness from them- do not pray to them- do not bow towards them-

This is the big difference- and a fine line from 'shirk'-
 
Some religious rules and Arabic traditions cannot apply to other cultures. That clash has been going since who knows when.

And this thread originates from just such a clash.
 
Learned something new today. So that means essentially all dargahs (Baba Jaan, Ajmer Sharif, etc.) where you have the chaadar, etc. are mainly Shia?

Is it because you are praying to the spirit of a mortal, albeit sanctified saint, etc.?

There are different type of people... Shia, Sunnis both go sometimes overboard with their reverence for these saints. The basic idea is to ask them for help - an example is Lahore's Data darbar. Data = Dena wala, provider. In Islam, only Allah is the provider. So its a conflict.

I've been to Daata Darbar, since Daata Ganj Baksh (I'm using the colloquil name for ease of conversation - his real name is different), but I went there to pray for him not pray to him. I got a nice feeling out of doing it, doing something nice for him.

Like that there are many people who go to pray to him. Some justify, that they are asking him to pray for them. Since he is close to Allah, Allah will listen to their prayers. It betrays the premise that Allah is all seeing, all hearing, all knowing. So why go through and intermediary? They tie strings, on some wall where they make a wish and if it comes true they have to come back and untie it. They go there, kiss the grave site, touch their foreheads to them in near Sajda Position.

But I maintain whether or not I believe in it, I will just pass on the message that this is wrong, not destroy the shrine and force my belief onto them. Its an article of faith and faith should be free. One can believe in anything, beliefs are free.

Moreover Daata Darbar feeds a countless number of people so thats something to take note too that in these mazaars there's some really good work happening. Although in Pakistan, theres a lot of charss trade going on around them too.

The birth place of Holy Prophet is not destroyed- it has been turned into a library-
i do occassionaly see people specialy south asian praying there- some performing salah in that direction- :sick:-

Fatiha is ok- darood o salam is ok- like we do in Madinah where Holy Prophet SAW is resting-
i am glad this holy place is not in our part of the world- it would have been complaete nuisance-

The graves are not destroyed- they are leveled- no marking no tomb- no one knows who lies where- specificaly to make people not worship them- 'shirk'-

I would have liked to take a picture there in its original setting.

It would just be super cool - nothing religious.
 
Yeah, I see what you mean.

We page paro (your sajda) only before the holy atash.
 
Makkah can't be a separate state either it will part of a country or either it will part of Khilafat when every established and as long as Iran is there no body can ever think of making MAKKAH a separate state
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom