Making a Secular Hero, Out of Communal Tipu Sultan

[RajputWarrior]

Surprised of some behavior on this thread.

Tipu Sultan was undoubtedly a great ruler, in the sense he knew how to keep his subjects happy be it Hindus, Muslims whatever.. and how to keep his kingdom from falling to the British.
However, just like other rajas and maharajas of that time, there was violence among warring states. Take examples of battles fought between the Rajputs vs Jats, Marathas and Sikhs vs Mughals, Travancore Kingdom vs the Mysore Kingdom etc. Each kingdom had Muslim, Sikh, Hindu subjects. Tipu was however in a predominant "Hindu" area, therefore it would be mad for him to create an Islamic Empire as compared to Aurangzeb, particularly of the fear of mutiny. His main goal was to crush the Brits, which he later made alliances with the Marathas and the Mughals. However it is true of the claims of converting the captured Hindus and Syrian Christians particularly from the Kingdom of Travancore to Islam and Mangalorean Catholics

 

[RajputWarrior]

Speaking from philosophical point of view, caste system should not be hereditary, but that is not the case in reality, is it?

True it shouldn't be. All imposed by man. However it was never a part of the fundamentals of the scriptures, However, caste is no more ridiculous or anachronistic than the concept of the aristocracy or even monarchy as compared to say priests, kings, knights and peasants of medieval Europe. And no, dictats of the Brahmins and Kshatriyas do NOT determine the freedoms and rights of others - except in the same way as a Priest of any religion - Christian, Muslim, Jew, Miscellaneous - will dictate what is "right" according to the religion. As such, the similarity with authoritarian government simply doesn't hold. To go further, if that was the mandate of the religion, how would a democracy ever be accepted in India? Like it or not - and, like all young post-Colonial democracies, there are significant flaws - but India is a functioning democracy with a huge Hindu majority population who don't seek authoritarian / religious governance any more than the population of Britain, US, France or any other democracy

 

[LaBong]

Its doesn't take much to get our on board self appointed liberals to go real self lowlife rowdy once you present alternate view point thats doesn't fit into their own half baked pseudo secular rubbish.

What is self-appointed liberal? Being liberal is my prerogative not a privilege bestowed upon me by someone; nor have I got paid by appointing myself as a liberal. Just trying to reason with you hinduvtas.

 

[harpoon]

Yes, harpoon i'm perfectly understand of historical fact that indian women ,more so men wore scantly clothes which were suitable to our humid conditions.And also you said civilizational outlook toward female sexuality .

Why i raised the particular issue of Kerala women because it was due to , as i believe some royal decree of kings in medieval Kerala states that forced women specially those belonging to lower caste to keep their breast bare which i find vulgar and demeaning.

Actually all women went topless at that time, the only difference is that upper class women barely went outside their home. As far as my knowledge goes it is the Christian Nadar women who first dared to cover their breasts. It was mainly under the influence if missionaries. This lead to tension with the upper castes (which I think is mainly due to the fact that it is a new concept to them), but by 1859 the Maharaja gave right for the above said women to cover their breasts and other communities followed suit.
A struggle for decent dress
You can get further information from this article

You may consider this funny today, but still in some temples in Kerala men are not allowed to enter wearing shirts and have to wear dhothi, while women must wear 'Mundum Neriyathum'. Salwar and other western dresses is still a no no.

 

[LaBong]

True it shouldn't be. All imposed by man. However it was never a part of the fundamentals of the scriptures, However, caste is no more ridiculous or anachronistic than the concept of the aristocracy or even monarchy as compared to say priests, kings, knights and peasants to medieval Europe. And no, dictats of the Brahmins and Kshatriyas do NOT determine the freedoms and rights of others - except in the same way as a Priest of any religion - Christian, Muslim, Jew, Miscellaneous - will dictate what is "right" according to the religion. As such, the similarity with authoritarian government simply doesn't hold. To go further, if that was the mandate of the religion, how would a democracy ever be accepted in India? Like it or not - and, like all young post-Colonial democracies, there are significant flaws - but India is a functioning democracy with a huge Hindu majority population who don't seek authoritarian / religious governance any more than the population of Britain.

I see where your logic comes from - sadly, it's based on a misunderstanding of Hinduism and doesn't work on examination of the facts.

While I'm no authority in Hinduism, but I do know titbits of Indian religions. Like Urbanized_Greyhound has already explained in detail, there are countless examples of people getting expelled from Hinduism because of their close contact with Abrahamic subjects. Every religion tends to get violated from it's fundamentals, more so at the face of invasion. Hinduism was no exception.

 

[KS]

This from wiki...

You seriously consider Wiki as a reliable source ? And would you agree Tipu was a bigot if I gave wiki pages myself ?

Would you mind if I call this thread a rss half pant cadres propaganda?

In one end you will accuse people of half telling the truth, and at the same breath, when countered with facts and figures will crawl back to your usual hinduvta self.
Hypocrisy much?

How can you call a thread propaganda when the thread itself is pointing to the other part of a propaganda ? This thread only serves to complete the picture of Tipu Sultan, a picture that has been till now been coveniently never been highlighted or studied or even mentioned.

 

[Manas]

What is self-appointed liberal? Being liberal is my prerogative not a privilege bestowed upon me by someone; nor have I got paid by appointing myself as a liberal. Just trying to reason with you hinduvtas.

Self-appointed liberal is an idiot who reasons that anything who questions his half baked secular conformist viewpoint must be from right wing RSS VHP hinduvtwadis etc etc !

 

[humanfirst]

A struggle for decent dress

Christian Nadar women got the right to cover the breasts in 1859,Ezhava women in 1865 and Nair & Namboothri women much later.

As far Muslims in Malabar , I'm not going to believe it until you post a link as Malabar Muslims have a soft corner for Tipu.

Lol nair and namboothiri women much later..?what a lie..!My dear covering upper clothes was a punishable offense to lower casts like nadar only,not to nairs and nambootiries..In fact it was mandatory for nambootiry women to cover their body while going out..And for nairs,some of them covered while others chose not to..The point is,we had a vulgar system which legally prevented women of some casts from wearing upper clothes.women in 1865 and Nair & Namboothri women much later.
As far Muslims in Malabar , I'm not going to believe it until you post a link as Malabar Muslims have a soft corner for Tipu.[/QUOTE]
Lol nair and namboothiri women much later..?what a lie..!My dear covering upper clothes was a punishable offense to lower casts like nadar only,not to nairs and nambootiries..In fact it was mandatory for nambootiry women to cover their body while going out..And for nairs,some of them covered while others chose not to..The point is,we had a vulgar system which legally prevented women of some casts from wearing upper clothes.

 

[IND151]

Very Wrong Comparisons.

Shivaji didn't go down destroying mosque , killing muslims for being muslims or tried convert Muslims to Hinduism of his empire .

Even the worst critic wouldn't accuse shivaji of communal biase .

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 AM ----------



yes, you are right .
But I'm talking about people of those places who rebelled against Tipu Sultan after he invaded those lands.

at bolded part> correct. shivaji maharaj respected all religions.

it was his strict order to his soldiers that they should not hurt any non Hindu and should not pose any harm to mosques,churches etc.

this why people of all religions were happy in swarajya.

 

[Manas]

at bolded part> correct. shivaji maharaj respected all religions.

it was his strict order to his soldiers that they should not hurt any non Hindu and should not pose any harm to mosques,churches etc.

this why people of all religions were happy in swarajya.

There is simply no comparison between Shivaji and Tipu Sultan when it comes treatment of people belonging to religion other than their own .

Shivaji wasn't secular in mordern sense , but much kindhearted ruler who respected other religions.

You wouldn't hear stories of destruction of mosque , harassment of non combatant Muslim men & women in places he invaded and brought under his control.

 

[harpoon]

Lol nair and namboothiri women much later..?what a lie..!My dear covering upper clothes was a punishable offense to lower casts like nadar only,not to nairs and nambootiries..In fact it was mandatory for nambootiry women to cover their body while going out..And for nairs,some of them covered while others chose not to..The point is,we had a vulgar system which legally prevented women of some casts from wearing upper clothes.w
.

Dude I think you did not took time to read the link I posted.

"Ezhava women secured the right to cover their breasts in 1865. Nair
women stopped exposing their breasts in front of Brahmins even later.
Further late, the Brahmin community too did away with the demeaning
condition they had imposed on their women."

 

[humanfirst]

Do people actually believe in this ****-and-bull stories ?

Lower casts were treated as sub humans without any rights.My own cast required a violent revolt and british help to secure the right to cover the breasts of our ladies.Can you believe that?And for the bolded part you quoted-It is in your religious code manusmriti-a lower cast person who happen to hear vedas must be punished by pouring molten lead through his ears.(chapter 12, sloka/verse 4)

And how does mass-killing Hindus and forcefully converting the rest address the issue ?

No it doesn't address nor justify the invasion of blood thirsty invaders.I was merely stating my openion that those converted didn't revert back because majority of them were lower casts,and things were not at all good for those lower casts then..

 

[sab]

You seriously consider Wiki as a reliable source ? And would you agree Tipu was a bigot if I gave wiki pages myself ?



How can you call a thread propaganda when the thread itself is pointing to the other part of a propaganda ? This thread only serves to complete the picture of Tipu Sultan, a picture that has been till now been coveniently never been highlighted or studied or even mentioned.

Wiki is no reliable sorce. We have to depend on how we take the sorces it provides for information it gives in its pages. At the same time how can you prove information given in the article are accurate?

 

[Infinity]

Muslims and Xtians constitute roughly 45% of the Kerala Population and the Hindus rest.



Australia is one of the most peaceful places on earth. Yet generations before they butchered millions of Aborigines. So your point being ?

Even with 45% minorities Kerala is one of the Peaceful states without Riots

You Convert TN into Australia
We are happy were we are....

 

[humanfirst]

Dude I think you did not took time to read the link I posted.

"Ezhava women secured the right to cover their breasts in 1865. Nair
women stopped exposing their breasts in front of Brahmins even later.
Further late, the Brahmin community too did away with the demeaning
condition they had imposed on their women."

Nair women obviously exposed their breasts to nampootiris,And nampootiri women had to cover themselves up when going out-even their face were to be covered from view by that wooden umbrella like thing.And syrian christian,jewish and muslim women were allowed to wear their traditional clothings which covered their body properly.But we-lower casts like nadars,ezhavas and those we now called S.C and ST were denied the right to cover the breasts,those attempted were punished by nair enforcers.That is why we had to revolt instead of just wear the clothes.If you didn't see any injustice in this then i pity you....