Major proportion of Arjun tanks in service not operational

[Umair Nawaz]

lmao idiot,Bajaj ,Tata & Mahindra makes world class products that is sold worldwide.These companies are true MNCs,and are among the largest in the world-you know that ?

All these use indigenous engines-now where is your moped engine,shameless troll




Who told your AK is less than 60% imported ?

LCA Tejas now have more than 70% indigenous content,and we designed that aircraft.Let me see when Pakistan can design a motor glider on its own !

As for high level of localisation,we manufacture the Su 30 MKI with more than 80% of indigenous content.Even the engine is manufactured here-Can Pakistan manufacture a turbofan ?

Could b abt teja since i dont know much abt it but since the thread's source is yr local media outlet and its about yr own ''indigenous'' product which as by the same article is 60% imported. AK series r at different league as these were the JVs from day 1, because unlike u have have a habit of properly understanding our capacity and capabilities and turn for a solution that suits ourselves hence JV route was seen viable. Now yes we make this more then if not 90% atleast 70-80% at home while the rest being of the engines etc. Even its FCS and IBMS, Armour, ERAs, Guns etc etc r domestic products. The imports r mostly ammunition like Type MII and engine etc...

God forbid if we were u then our tank would be getting operational in 2030. What we basically do here is that we introduce and make things in a Phase to phase basis by approaching and building one thing at a time in a particular project, hence its more efficient and get operational in time.

Keeping in view the above i would any day stick with such an approach as its efficient and proven effective, then going for some fancy cars or ambitious projects that in the end turn out to be a national and international mockery of one's domestic industry and scientific base.

 

[gslv mk3]

r local media outlet and its about yr own ''indigenous'' product which as by the same article is 60% imported

You don't get it right-India is primarily looking for developing design capabilities,and not just for a fully operational system.We have customised foreign weapon systems with indigenous systems to fulfill our requirements (just like you did)-Do you know that the Mission Computers, EW systems,Radar Processors for the Su 30 MKI were derived from the ones on LCA ?

Now yes we make this more then if not 90% atleast 70-80% at home while the rest being of the engines etc. Even its FCS and IBMS, Armour, ERAs, Guns etc etc r domestic products. The imports r mostly ammunition like Type MII and engine etc...

Your gun is of Chinese design (Russian original,and was imported till 2010),FCS is western.

For ours,we designed them.The armour too is ours.

Keeping in view the above i would any day stick with such an approach as its efficient and proven effective, then going for some fancy cars or ambitious projects that in the end turn out to be a national and international mockery of one's domestic industry and scientific base.

se unlike u have have a habit of properly understanding our capacity and capabilities and turn for a solution that suits ourselves hence JV route was seen viable

You would.For a country like Pakistan,that would be enough.You did the same for your space sector- you know where you stand in that.

Neither is our cars or the weapon systems failures-both have been successfully sold to their respective customers

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Could b abt teja since i dont know much abt it but since the thread's source is yr local media outlet and its about yr own ''indigenous'' product which as by the same article is 60% imported. AK series r at different league as these were the JVs from day 1, because unlike u have have a habit of properly understanding our capacity and capabilities and turn for a solution that suits ourselves hence JV route was seen viable. Now yes we make this more then if not 90% atleast 70-80% at home while the rest being of the engines etc. Even its FCS and IBMS, Armour, ERAs, Guns etc etc r domestic products. The imports r mostly ammunition like Type MII and engine etc...

God forbid if we were u then our tank would be getting operational in 2030. What we basically do here is that we introduce and make things in a Phase to phase basis by approaching and building one thing at a time in a particular project, hence its more efficient and get operational in time.

Keeping in view the above i would any day stick with such an approach as its efficient and proven effective, then going for some fancy cars or ambitious projects that in the end turn out to be a national and international mockery of one's domestic industry and scientific base.

Well Most of the product Pak make are Lic one which given local name and then claimed to be build by itself. one example is your MUSTAQ trainer ,which you people proudly claimed to PAK produced .

Other variation, your Tank which JV is PAK tank but Bahramos which JV is not Indian. height of Hypocrisy.

Indian also developing product one by one which is prove to be superior in the end.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I never tried to bit the trumpet over Arjun or LCA. So far this two projects has been white elephants. But that doesnt mean these two machines cant be successful in long run.

If you have read my posts & links given, a clear road map based on F16 development can be followed where product being inducted in large no with flaws & gradually improving it with each batches. I guess same shall be done with Mkii veraions of both Arjun & LCA.

By the way, at a personal level, the way you use words such as kids, idiots, enuch etc obnoxious remarks shows much about your upbringing. You have been warned earlier by Waz i remember.

As I said before , even I can post garbage & become an elite member in no time. But instead, I like to add valuables to the forum.

Note: The way you claimed F16 has never faced any problems during its inception, shows the idiocracy you posses. Instead of trolling all the way just for sake of it, do contribute with something valuable.

The F16s that landed in pakistan in 1983 were its BLK15-30 models of F16A/Bs both were the very basic aircrafts of the f16 family. The had and even today never had any operational problems in our service nor in USAF or IDAF or in NATO. F16s with the passage of time got updated to the new and new capabilities enhancing their battle effectiveness to compete the Soviats that was cold war era. Its wasnt like the earlier models were faulty and USAF inducted faulty systems in its fleet that eventually be fazed out or updated with newer models, like u try to explain.

What yr not understanding or confusing is something indicated in the sources u shared as well. The were not inducted unless the proved their worth because in the case of US military it had in the past like Sherman tanks untill the Firefly version came or the best example is of M-4 assult rifle and F4s. The M4s were inducted in a hurry in the vietnam theater since the beating they were getting there. But as it turned out the earlier models used to get jammed in the moist conditions, hence they were sent back and improved versions came within a few months which were inducted and remain in service since then.

The US military had such experience before as a whole, they wouldnt induct a system which dont satisfy their tri services.

The bottom line is that im not denying F16s may not had problems but was when it was still in testing and prototype phase not after its mass production was started. Yr wrongly comparing the 96 faults of arjun that it has today in 2015 after its serial production has started and its in the depots of yr army.

Your gun is of Chinese design (Russian original,and was imported till 2010),FCS is western.

For ours,we designed them.The armour too is ours.




You would.For a country like Pakistan,that would be enough.You did the same for your space sector- you know where you stand in that.

Neither is our cars or the weapon systems failures-both have been successfully sold to their respective customers

Not anymore son, the gun was imported from france, now we make the gun ourselves its there since i think 2012 or 2011 that yr confusing with chinese one. We didnt inducted the Chinese gun from the first day. There was a news abt AKs new gun in the forum back then. FCS is called Rahber its the derivative of our IBMS which is called the same. FCS was also from france it was Sagem's something, i dont remember. U didnt visited our AK's info pool thread have u in last few years. The Thermal image sights r still western from Thales France. and so is transmission if im not wrong. The r the most notable systems we have which r non chinese or Pakistani in our tank.

BTW arjun's design isnt yrs but Leopard's.

You would.For a country like Pakistan,that would be enough.You did the same for your space sector- you know where you stand in that.

Neither is our cars or the weapon systems failures-both have been successfully sold to their respective customers

u still gonna say that?

Common man i know yr better then that, admit it.

 

[gslv mk3]

, the gun was imported from france, now we make the gun ourselves its there since i think 2012 or 2011 that yr confusing with chinese one

No,the gun is a Chinese design.You used to import gun barrel blanks from France,and machine it then

. FCS is called Rahber its the derivative of our IBMS which is called the same. FCS was also from france it was Sagem's something,

links ?

BTW arjun's design isnt yrs but Leopard's.

No it isn't-it looks similar,not the same

u still gonna say that?

Yes.

We have developed & manufactured our own jet trainers,helicopters & fighters( Since LCA is now in series production)
We build our own aircraft carriers,destroyer,frigates,corvettes,OPVs and other vessels
We have developed & manufactured our own nuclear submarine
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of radars,sonars,EW systems,C3I systems
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of small arms,Artillery systems
We have developed & manufactured Ballistic Missiles,Cruise missiles,SAMs,ATGM,SLBMs,BMD etc
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of combat vehicles,TELs,other military vehicles

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Well Most of the product Pak make are Lic one which given local name and then claimed to be build by itself. one example is your MUSTAQ trainer ,which you people proudly claimed to PAK produced .

Other variation, your Tank which JV is PAK tank but Bahramos which JV is not Indian. height of Hypocrisy.

Indian also developing product one by one which is prove to be superior in the end.

Not really, Mushak aircraft is made 100% domestically. Like i said what we do here is build things in a phase to phase manner, we had not prior experience what so ever in aeronautical engineering so we started small then gradually turned big. Mushak was first build in Licencing production, then we gradually made the entire aircraft 100% at home then we ourselves updated it as super mushak. Now both of these are the ones we export too.So by yr logic if that was true that we still import their systems from sweden then they would have never allowed us to export them in the first place. Since u might know the western countries r quit touche in such things. If one makes things domestically 100% then there is no harm giving them yr own name since they r afterall made in pakistan that too 100% so much so that we export them. This was broadly speaking the first phase in our aircraft making industry after that we made Karakoram -8 which is also a JV, and is made 100% domestically and we have exported them as well. Then the third phase begins in which we make a proper fighter jet in again in a JV manner and r slowly in our way to make them 100% at home. And we r marketing them for quite sometime. See the pattern? Its all proper phase to phase approach with one step at a time. This has been prove most effective and efficient then yr solo ambitious projects which turn out to be a national and international embarrassment.

If u had used yr brains a little with proper planning u could have chosen likely path or similar to this u would have been in a much or satisfactory position today like us. Since our project r under mass production and in the fighting phases in WOT and r working just fine.

 

[gslv mk3]

Not really, Mushak aircraft is made 100% domestically.

The engine is still foreign,and is sourced from the western OEM

If u had used yr brains a little with proper planning u could have chosen likely path or similar to this u would have been in a much or satisfactory position today like us. Since our project r under mass production and in the fighting phases in WOT and r working just fine.

What is your 'favorable position'-Like license producing a 1970s vintage basic trainer ?

We have been making basic trainers since 1952

 

[Donatello]

Thing is simple.

If a platform is not upto Mark, induct it and iron out its flaws.

This is what developers around the world do.

No they don't. They make a product that was expected and agreed on paper, then they induct it. Upgrades come later. I don't know of any major Army that puts into service half built/reliable tanks and says, oh we will fix this later. Only in india.

 

[gslv mk3]

Since our project r under mass production

Same with the Tejas.Or the Dhruv.Or the Kolkata class destroyer.Your point is ?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

No,the gun is a Chinese design.You used to import gun barrel blanks from France,and machine it then



links ?



No it isn't-it looks similar,not the same



Yes.

We have developed & manufactured our own jet trainers,helicopters & fighters( Since LCA is now in series production)
We build our own aircraft carriers,destroyer,frigates,corvettes,OPVs and other vessels
We have developed & manufactured our own nuclear submarine
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of radars,sonars,EW systems,C3I systems
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of small arms,Artillery systems
We have developed & manufactured Ballistic Missiles,Cruise missiles,SAMs,ATGM,SLBMs,BMD etc
We have developed & manufactured various kinds of combat vehicles,TELs,other military vehicles

i dont have the links but this info can b found somewhere in the Info pool threads. There wasd no Chinese gun. Yr mistaking it with french gun that we used to import. Our gun is basically developed from it.

And stop the blind patriotism yr tank is a leapord design. Its 100% can be seen from a naked eye, one doesnt have to be an expert.

1) i dont know much abt yr fighters but i can certainly say the design of LCA is not a new one. Yr Dhruv is also a copy of another heli.....I saw its picture forgot its name. I was too complicated for me to remember but it was european.
2)Lie, thats the copy of Russian aircraft carriers and the formal british ones u operated, so is same for yr frigates and destroyers.
3)U mean arihant class submarine? Its indian version of akula 1. again u dont need to b an expert in this just a curious eyes can see that clearly.
4)Dont know abt Radars or sonars, but as the historyof the projects u have i wouldnt b surprised if they r reverse engineered Russian ones. EWs r israeli made or r being made by their help. U dont have as efficient knowledge base domestically to build as complex systems like EW suits.
5)Its bofors stop lying please we both know what is what common.
6)The less said abt yr BM/CMs/ATGMs systems the better since y guys accuse us of same so i wouldnt want to bust yr bubble.
7)Only by the external help through yr civil automobile industrial base. Which as large contacts abroad.

 

[Donatello]

We have been making basic trainers since 1952

Fine. But still haven't been able to make anything more than that in all those years with all those resources.
Funny how you compare to someone 6-8 times smaller than you. That'd be like Pakistan comparing itself with Afghanistan.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Same with the Tejas.Or the Dhruv.Or the Kolkata class destroyer.Your point is ?

Arjun

The engine is still foreign,and is sourced from the western OEM



What is your 'favorable position'-Like license producing a 1970s vintage basic trainer ?

We have been making basic trainers since 1952

Yup less the engines, what else is there to be imported? And why/how r we exporting them. The point being that one has to be realistic in his capabilities and must not overestimate themselves nor underestimate others while they r succeeding and yr failing.

Mushak was being license produced in the 70s as well after that we made it ourselves, now a days only super mushak is made if im not wrong that too when for export or replace if some operational unit crashes.

 

[gslv mk3]

lol..typical Moron

i dont have the links but this info can b found somewhere in the Info pool threads. There wasd no Chinese gun. Yr mistaking it with french gun that we used to import. Our gun is basically developed from it.

Nice BS.

It is a Russian-made 9K119 Refleks (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper), which is produced in China under license

Al Khalid Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

And stop the blind patriotism yr tank is a leapord design. Its 100% can be seen from a naked eye, one doesnt have to be an expert.

Really ? Why don't you compare the dimensions ?

1) i dont know much abt yr fighters but i can certainly say the design of LCA is not a new one.

Epic BS.Its an Indian design-there haven't been another design with a compound delta wing & no canards

2)Lie, thats the copy of Russian aircraft carriers and the formal british ones u operated,

Epic BS.India's indigenous aircraft carrier was designed by directorate of naval design,new delhi.Its significantly larger than the british one & significantly different from Vikramaditya.

so is same for yr frigates and destroyers.

There isn't an iota of similarity between them !!

3)U mean arihant class submarine? Its indian version of akula 1. again u dont need to b an expert in this just a curious eyes can see that clearly.

lol..Arihant is in a totaly different class than Akula-compare the displacement.

For your curious eyes only.

4)Dont know abt Radars or sonars, but as the historyof the projects u have i wouldnt b surprised if they r reverse engineered Russian ones.

If you do not know,then keep your mouth shut.We have developed our own PESA & AESA radars through indigenous efforts.

[/QUOTE]EWs r israeli made or r being made by their help. U dont have as efficient knowledge base domestically to build as complex systems like EW suits.

We have build EW suits for our Naval ships as well as our aircrafts.

5)Its bofors stop lying please we both know what is what common.

Non sense.Bofors based guns isn't the only one.

6)The less said abt yr BM/CMs/ATGMs systems the better since y guys accuse us of same so i wouldnt want to bust yr bubble.

Yeah right- Only Pakistani morons would that India,a space power need foreign to develop BMs.

7)Only by the external help through yr civil automobile industrial base. Which as large contacts abroad.

lol..Our company,Tata is worlds fourth largest truck manufacturer.They don't need help,they are the ones who can provide help to countries like Pakistan.

The point being that one has to be realistic in his capabilities and must not overestimate themselves nor underestimate others while they r succeeding and yr failing.

Maybe Pakistan's capability is limited to license producing basic trainers.We had our own basic trainers since 1952 and jet trainers since 1960s.

Fine. But still haven't been able to make anything more than that in all those years with all those resources.

A jet trainer,some choppers and a 4+ gen fighter.leaving some general aviation stuff,AOPs & cropdusters

 

[Umair Nawaz]

lol..typical Moron



Nice BS.





Really ? Why don't you compare the dimensions ?



Epic BS.Its an Indian design-there haven't been another design with a compound delta wing & no canards



Epic BS.India's indigenous aircraft carrier was designed by directorate of naval design,new delhi.Its significantly larger than the british one & significantly different from Vikramaditya.



There isn't an iota of similarity between them !!



lol..Arihant is in a totaly different class than Akula-compare the displacement.

If you do not know,then keep your mouth shut.We have developed our own PESA & AESA radars through indigenous efforts.

EWs r israeli made or r being made by their help. U dont have as efficient knowledge base domestically to build as complex systems like EW suits.[/QUOTE]
LOL u have taken time to edit my post in one by one points and write such a crap and total denial!!

Wake up kiddo. Seriously wake up! And make something effective and as efficient as ours then come back and compare with ourselves. Total denial wont serve u any good!!!!!

 

[gslv mk3]

LOL u have taken time to edit my post in one by one points and write such a crap and total denial!!

Only one acting in denial here is you.I have refuted each & every point of yours.If you wan't proof,I can give it

make something effective and as efficient as ours then come back and compare with ourselves.

Build an SSBN..or a corvette as better as ours..or a basic trainer.

Arjun

Modified T 90