Majestic Su 30 MKI's - Night operations - HD footage

[dbc]

I know what you are talking about. and yes - the issue exists. But the envelope of aircraft is not restricted coz of that. Pilots do dive and fire rockets. You have source - but i have personally seen them firing rockets in dive mode. This issue was more pronounced in flogger ! and yet IAF pilots do fire rockets in dive mode. Diving is not a problem and your radar FOV is not a problem if you are in a dive mode. Further USAF and USN had experience in older fishbeds - they did experience Bi's in cope india and were pleasantly surprised.


Like i said - more pronounced in Flogger. All IAF pilots that i know off mention it when they talk about flogger. You can check their twitter accounts

- i do believe my own eyes though

According to the Czech's 12% of their Soviet era engine surge incidents were attributed to "combustion products from a launched rocket, or inspiration of hot gases from a shooting cannon". In their inventory the Mig-21 recorded the highest number of crashes 46% due to engine surge incidents.
Their report recommends straight and level flight while employing weapons including guns and rockets ..."choosing adequate shooting profiles and avoidance maneuvers.".

 

[Globalwarrior]

It’s amazing how delusional one can become to avoid facing reality
It’s a good defense mechanism for a loser to keep morale probably
Still have to be delusional though (Sorry Indians)

 

[Aasimkhan]

incorrect...

Su30MKI has 2D TVC... has much more agility and can dominate in dogfights against any non TVC fighters,
regarding BVR again MKI shown its agility by surviving 5 Aim-120C5 on 2 MKIs by F-16s...

And India is not buying Rafale for Air2Air role its a multirole.. MKI will keep playing the air dominance role it have been subjected to.
And results will be different if instead of Mig21 Rafale was already bought by UPA years ago not MKI.

If it is so great why and where was it hiding on 27 Feb ?

 

[Balbir]

Tell me, is there any reason to believe, a Mig-21 aircraft can't launch missiles /rockets while pitched down at -negative AoA ? If that isn't the case which we know it isn't, why do you think India Mig21 would've have not fired his missile at such a critical juncture he was, merely because there was an apprehension that it could lead to engine flame out.

According to the Czech's 12% of their Soviet era engine surge incidents were attributed to "combustion products from a launched rocket, or inspiration of hot gases from a shooting cannon". In their inventory the Mig-21 recorded the highest number of crashes 46% due to engine surge incidents.
Their report recommends straight and level flight while employing weapons including guns and rockets ..."choosing adequate shooting profiles and avoidance maneuvers.".

 

[anathema]

According to the Czech's 12% of their Soviet era engine surge incidents were attributed to "combustion products from a launched rocket, or inspiration of hot gases from a shooting cannon". In their inventory the Mig-21 recorded the highest number of crashes 46% due to engine surge incidents.
Their report recommends straight and level flight while employing weapons including guns and rockets ..."choosing adequate shooting profiles and avoidance maneuvers.".

Recommends is the operative word and not restricts. There is no such restriction in IAF. That can be seen in several videos and personal experience

 

[dbc]

Tell me, is there any reason to believe, a Mig-21 aircraft can't launch missiles /rockets while pitched down at -negative AoA ?

..launch at what? The Mig-21 radar isn't able to pick a target against ground clutter.

Recommends is the operative word and not restricts. There is no such restriction in IAF. That can be seen in several videos and personal experience

Would you...
unlock your phone...
flush the toilet...
brush your teeth..
...
if there was a 12% chance it would kill you?

 

[Balbir]

..launch at what? The Mig-21 radar isn't able to pick a target against ground clutter.

And how do you know that ? Are you his wingman?

 

[jk007]

Recommends is the operative word and not restricts. There is no such restriction in IAF. That can be seen in several videos and personal experience

@anathema - You have great knowledge. Thanks for taking time to respond. It really helps nooobies like me. Now, I understand possible reasons for high crash rate of IAF.
@dbc - Thanks for your inputs too.

PS: I know this post does not add any value, but could not resist.

 

[notorious_eagle]

3. The MIG-21 was found with its full complement of AAM missiles.

Our dear friend @anathema theory is that the the R73's that PAF displayed were bought from eBay. That is when i ended the conversation from my side.

You also have to understand the psychology behind what happened. What was promised was a total domination similar to what the IDAF delivers, but egos were hurt that despite spending enormous sums of money, India is still as vulnerable as it was 20 years ago.

 

[anathema]

Our dear friend @anathema theory is that the the R73's that PAF displayed were bought from eBay. That is when i ended the conversation from my side.

You also have to understand the psychology behind what happened. What was promised was a total domination similar to what the IDAF delivers, but egos were hurt that despite spending enormous sums of money, India is still as vulnerable as it was 20 years ago.

My dear NE - selective quoting at best. I told very clearly that PAK can procure missiles however they want - whether its afghan conflict or iron brother or ebay - who knows. PAK has after all perfected these kinds of operations when they shipped nodong missiles from NK and painted it to launch their first ballistic missile. Didn't they ?
IAF is extremely satisfied (they clearly have admitted lessons) but strategically they achieved their objectives. I would be a fool - if i were to say and wish for IDAF type dominiation in a heavily contest airspace between two extremely professional air forces.

Would you...
unlock your phone...
flush the toilet...
brush your teeth..
...
if there was a 12% chance it would kill you?

Haha.... do you drive a car considering that the statistically it has a higher percentage that you could be killed in a car crash ? ..Operationally IAF has not restricted any of its flying a/c's with this level flying nonsense.
Coming to think of it - how do you employ rockets against ground forces if you are flying level ? Extremely limited envelope - cant think of any professional air forces accepting this limitation.

 

[SIPRA]

Our dear friend @anathema theory is that the the R73's that PAF displayed were bought from eBay.

I have also got one, which I purchased from Karyana Store of my Mohallah.

 

[notorious_eagle]

My dear NE - selective quoting at best. I told very clearly that PAK can procure missiles however they want - whether its afghan conflict or iron brother or ebay - who knows. PAK has after all perfected these kinds of operations when they shipped nodong missiles from NK and painted it to launch their first ballistic missile. Didn't they ?

I can tell you with full authority, PAF as of now does not possess any R73 or R77's. PAF tested these weapons when it evaluated SU27's in the 1990's, but that's about it as none of the PAF's platform can fire these weapons. I shared your theory with a good friend who is Middle Management PAF, he literally fell off the floor laughing.

NonDong is a bad example. Pakistan was literally fighting for its life and it was doing whatever it can to build a credible ballistic missile threat. Those NonDong's had actual value, R73's and R77's have literally no value and would just be for show piece.

IAF is extremely satisfied (they clearly have admitted lessons) but strategically they achieved their objectives. I would be a fool - if i were to say and wish for IDAF type dominiation in a heavily contest airspace between two extremely professional air forces.

WOW. Good for them i guess if they are happy with their results. You can engage @dbc to determine the reputation of IAF after Feb 27 among Western Air Forces.

 

[anathema]

I can tell you with full authority, PAF as of now does not possess any R73 or R77's. PAF tested these weapons when it evaluated SU27's in the 1990's, but that's about it as none of the PAF's platform can fire these weapons. I shared your theory with a good friend who is Middle Management PAF, he literally fell off the floor laughing.

NonDong is a bad example. Pakistan was literally fighting for its life and it was doing whatever it can to build a credible ballistic missile threat. Those NonDong's had actual value, R73's and R77's have literally no value and would just be for show piece.

Who said anything about firing ? Bringing out unused russian missiles from cold storage (missiles leftover from AFG conflict) is no bid deal. Some many Russian bases were overrun by Mujahideen those days - and you are saying that you dont have access to inventory ? Its actually nobrainer.
Dont want to go into Nondong - i brought that point out to highlight the fact that PAK has experience in shipping missiles and not letting the world know about it. If PAK can ship Nondong - whats a R73 ?
With regards to your good friend laughing on this conjecture - what else did you expect ? Some years later this will come out, just as other incidents have come out.

WOW. Good for them i guess if they are happy with their results. You can engage @dbc to determine the reputation of IAF after Feb 27 among Western Air Forces.

India has moved beyond colonial slave mentality of seeking approval from Gora's. Opinions of posters like @dbc does not really to matter to me or to the nation. We dont employ paid journos like Warren to do our PR. I have seen this disease in this forum; Moment a white guy spouts some nonsense - 'its regarded as gospel' . I dont care about their opinions. Honestly the combat experience that subcontinent has - other countries would yearn to have that kind of experience. On PR front - i think personally its a bad strategy. We should definetly get our PR game together.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Dont want to go into Nondong - i brought that point out to highlight the fact that PAK has experience in shipping missiles and not letting the world know about it. If PAK can ship Nondong - whats a R73 ?

Permutations are endless. IAF could have lost 10 SU30MKI and 5 M2K's, but hid that from the world.

With regards to your good friend laughing on this conjecture - what else did you expect ? Some years later this will come out, just as other incidents have come out.

Indeed, or years later it comes out that an SU30MKI was shot down by an AMRAAM, and IAF was stupid enough to show its fuze on camera. The chopper that was was shot down was on a SAR mission to find the SU30MKI pilots. You never know.

India has moved beyond colonial slave mentality of seeking approval from Gora's. Opinions of posters like @dbc does not really to matter to me or to the nation. We dont employ paid journos like Warren to do our PR. I have seen this disease in this forum; Moment a white guy spouts some nonsense - 'its regarded as gospel' . I dont care about their opinions. Honestly the combat experience that subcontinent has - other countries would yearn to have that kind of experience. On PR front - i think personally its a bad strategy. We should definetly get our PR game together.

I wish that was the case, but your nations actions are contrary to your words. But then again, if Feb 27 could be called a strategic victory by our Indian friends, then call it whatever you want. Oh and a correction, Alan Warnes was never paid by PAF.

Pro-Indian 'fake websites targeted decision makers in Europe'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50749764

 

[dbc]

India has moved beyond colonial slave mentality of seeking approval from Gora's. Opinions of posters like @dbc does not really to matter to me or to the nation. We dont employ paid journos like Warren to do our PR. I have seen this disease in this forum; Moment a white guy spouts some nonsense - 'its regarded as gospel' . I dont care about their opinions. Honestly the combat experience that subcontinent has - other countries would yearn to have that kind of experience. On PR front - i think personally its a bad strategy. We should definetly get our PR game together.

Good for you! @notorious_eagle was alluding to an outsiders perspective your own deep rooted insecurities turned it into ”colonial slave mentality”.