Mahmud Ghaznavi, the Afghan-Pak Sultan

[newb3e]

If you're into history books then try skipping through two Iranian history books, "Iran, Empire of the Mind" and "The Turban for the Crown". The first book is very detailed about Nader Shah's most trusted man, who happened to be Ahmad Shah Abdali and it briefly speaks of Abdali's family's journey between Kirman (in current day Iran) and Harat/Herav (as it was formerly known as)

The latter just briefly speaks of Nader Shah's conquest of Kandahar and Abdali's role in gaining control over his paternal hometown, and his birth place (which in the book is mentioned as Herat). Surprisingly Multan is nowhere mentioned in either of the books

The Sur were known as ethnic Afghans. Again "Iran, Empire of the Mind" refers them as that. At the time there was no Afghanistan, there was Khorasan and before that Ariana. Ghaznawid was a Persianised Turkic empire, Ghorid were Persian empire, Hotak and Abdali were Pashtun empires. They originated from present day Afghanistan but they were empires of particular ethnic group, not within any border or nationality


Iran, Empire of the Mind is a good read. Even Persian book Shahnameh gives a brief introduction into various Islamic empires throughout Central Asia, South Asia and Middle East.

Alternatively if you type name of any Islamic conquest you want to search about on google, you might find some good reads on books.google which many times provides links to some authentic books

wow mate ill surely look for the books you mentioned thankyou sir!

Wikipedia is good provided the claims are backed up by proper citations (some are, some aren't). Work done by BBC (e.g their website and documentaries) are also reliable. Zaid Hamid also has some very good lectures on Islamic conquerors. Crash Course History and Caspian Report on YouTube also have some videos on the topic, again, generally reliable and interesting. Ollie Bye is another YouTube channel with maps that detail the expansion of many Muslim empires throughout their lifetime, I would also recommend the channel Kings and Generals, and Baz Battles, which go into detail about the actual battles that took place during the Islamic conquests.

Generally speaking, it's good to read up multiple sources on the same topic, take the material that overlaps (without being a complete copy-paste) and appears to fit in with the history as most probably factual.



Like I said, Abdalis birthplace is disputed. It's best to leave it at that.

Pashtuns were typically referred to as Afghans, as that was the historical name for them. Even KPK and FATA used to be called Afghania (that's what the A in Pakistan stands for).

yeh i am subscribed to caspian and ollie bye i am also subscribed to crawh course but i dint look into it in detail will do now...and as for two other channels you suggested i dint know about them so thankyou for your recommendation.

but i was looking for a book or books i find books better than youtube or wikipedia.

 

[Hamza913]

yeh i am subscribed to caspian and ollie bye i am also subscribed to crawh course but i dint look into it in detail will do now...and as for two other channels you suggested i dint know about them so thankyou for your recommendation.

but i was looking for a book or books i find books better than youtube or wikipedia.

Yeah I know, which is why I recommend simply finding PDF's of books on the subject online, there are many of them available online.

Here are some good books (not all of these are available as PDF's AFAIK):

Baburnama by Babur himself

Akbarnama by Abu Fazl

The Mughal Throne and the Age of Wrath, both by Abraham Eraly

Aurangzeb by Audrey Truschke

Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and Ibn Hisham's Sira (provide many details about warfare during the beginning of Islam)

The Ottoman Empire by Halil Inalcik

Saladin by John Man

Tamerlane by Justin Marozzi

Also, I should have mentioned earlier, Encyclopedia Britannica is another great source online.

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

Innocent people? No, it doesn't (other than collateral, but even then you should be very conservative in your acceptance of collateral).

Religious sites? Islamically, it does kinda say otherwise AFAIK. Feel free to correct me if you wish.

Plundering and looting is literally what war was back then, you used it to develop your empire. It's how Mahmud Ghaznavi transformed Ghazni and Lahore into great cities.

Israelis do glorify their actions, and I see no qualms in them doing so, provided they don't mind others doing the same. They have performed well enough to get the right to gloat.

It's not against secularism, rather, certain countries that claim to be secular but act otherwise in practise (e.g Hindustan).



His army also had a significant number of Punjabis in it.

He was born in Afghanistan, so that makes him Afghan. Ethnically, he was a Persianised Turk, you have many Farsiwans and Turks in Afghanistan so yes he does count as Afghan even ethnically.

He ruled over modern day Pakistan, developed it significantly, had many Pakistanis work for him in his military and administration, has influenced Pakistani culture immensely, and many of his people migrated to Pakistan under his rule. He also established Islam in the region, which allowed Pakistan to exist in the first place. Lahore was his 2nd largest city and the winter capital, not to mention a significant chunk of Pakistan (KPK, Baluchistan and FATA) has historically been associated with Afghanistan/Khorasan. He's just as much a Pakistani hero as he is an Afghan or Turkic one.

The difference ofcourse being that he had no clue what Pakistan was even meant to be, he just came to loot and expand his territory. I don't know why we think our identity is linked to religion only. If you think Pakistanis are just subcontinental Muslims it'd be disappointing to hear there's 270 million others to replace our role.

 

[Rollno21]

You will do well to read about the exploits of our Prophet SAW. What Ghaznavi did may hurt you, but he was a practicing Muslim and what he did was totally jaiz.

So you are saying,that what your prophet said to destroy and disrespect other religions and their places of worship

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Yeah I know, which is why I recommend simply finding PDF's of books on the subject online, there are many of them available online.

Here are some good books (not all of these are available as PDF's AFAIK):

Baburnama by Babur himself

Akbarnama by Abu Fazl

The Mughal Throne and the Age of Wrath, both by Abraham Eraly

Aurangzeb by Audrey Truschke

Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and Ibn Hisham's Sira (provide many details about warfare during the beginning of Islam)

The Ottoman Empire by Halil Inalcik

Saladin by John Man

Tamerlane by Justin Marozzi

Also, I should have mentioned earlier, Encyclopedia Britannica is another great source online.

Truschke is a difficult read. She tries to exhonerate Aurangzeb of many temple destructions. Destroying those places is often a pride for us...how ignorance was destroyed etc. She is a more liberal and secular person in her apporach.

So you are saying,that what your prophet said to destroy and disrespect other religions and their places of worship

With all due respect. There is only one religion. Others are people's imagination.

Plundering and looting is literally what war was back then, you used it to develop your empire. It's how Mahmud Ghaznavi transformed Ghazni and Lahore into great cities.

Hindu and Buddhist kings did not plunder much. How long did they last?

 

[Hamza913]

The difference ofcourse being that he had no clue what Pakistan was even meant to be, he just came to loot and expand his territory. I don't know why we think our identity is linked to religion only. If you think Pakistanis are just subcontinental Muslims it'd be disappointing to hear there's 270 million others to replace our role.

He didn't just loot and plunder, he spread Islam. It was under Ghaznavi that most of Pakistan became Muslim. He also brought with him Persian culture that has influenced ours immensely, and the second largest city of his empire was Lahore, it also acted as his winter capital. He also had many Pashtuns and Punjabis from Pakistan work in his military. It was only Hindustan that acted as the place to go pillage, Pakistan was an integral piece of his empire.

His objective was to spread Islam. Of course I, as a Muslim, would consider him a hero.

Oh and we do have a genetic affinity with these Islamic conquerors:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

"The study showed that the Muslim Gujjars differ significantly from their counterpart, the Hindu Gujjars"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19809480

"Overall, our results support a model according to which the spread of Islam in India was predominantly cultural conversion associated with minor but still detectable levels of gene flow from outside, primarily from Iran and Central Asia"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067368

"we observed a certain degree of genetic contribution from Iran to both (Sunni and Shia) Muslim populations"

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2009168

"The average contribution of haplogroups of West Eurasian origin to Indian Muslims was 18%, which is not significantly higher than the value observed in non-Muslim populations (14%). In contrast, Iranian Shia Muslims exhibit a high frequency (54%) of West Eurasian lineages. It is interesting that the sub-Saharan African- and Arabian-specific L0a2a2 and R01 lineages were found only in Dawoodi Bohras (TN and GUJ), whereas these lineages were generally absent in Indian non-Muslims, although a related L0a2a2 lineage has been detected previously among the Sindhi population of Pakistan "

 

[Rollno21]

With all due respect. There is only one religion. Others are people's imagination.

Even if others religions are people's imagination,where is the due respect for people's imagination.

Others will say the same about Islam ,it's few peoples imagination.i hope you are not offended by that.beling a secular country,one should respect others too,at least that's what I thought Islam teaches

 

[Hamza913]

Even if others religions are people's imagination,where is the due respect for people's imagination.

Others will say the same about Islam ,it's few peoples imagination.i hope you are not offended by that.beling a secular country,one should respect others too,at least that's what I thought Islam teaches

They were at war, that's very different to randomly attacking someone's place of worship out of the blue, no?

 

[AfrazulMandal]

what I thought Islam teaches

I suggest you learn about Islam. Sahih international has good guides.

 

[Hamza913]

Even if others religions are people's imagination,where is the due respect for people's imagination.

Others will say the same about Islam ,it's few peoples imagination.i hope you are not offended by that.beling a secular country,one should respect others too,at least that's what I thought Islam teaches

Yeah, but not when you are fighting a war with them. Once that happens, the gloves come off (mostly, there are still a few restrictions, e.g no killing of women and children).

 

[Rollno21]

I suggest you learn about Islam. Sahih international has good guides.

I suggest you read more and not just believe one interpretation

Yeah, but not when you are fighting a war with them. Once that happens, the gloves come off (mostly, there are still a few restrictions, e.g no killing of women and children).

Did anyone impose war on him,he invaded prosperous land,you can't impose war on others and claim it was war,he was wrong in the first place to impose war on others without any threat.
By your logic you should not be crying when US invaded Iraq and if they have bombed any of the holy sites there

 

[Hamza913]

Did anyone impose war on him,he invaded prosperous land,you can't impose war on others and claim it was war,he was wrong in the first place to impose war on others without any threat.
By your logic you should not be crying when US invaded Iraq and if they have bombed any of the holy sites there

He invaded Hindustan for good reason, he had to secure his empire and provide for its people. You do this via conquest. This was how things worked back then.

The US had no reason to invade Iraq, so that's a very poor comparison.

 

[Rollno21]

He invaded Hindustan for good reason, he had to secure his empire and provide for its people. You do this via conquest. This was how things worked back then.

The US had no reason to invade Iraq, so that's a very poor comparison.

Haha,bro,you just support him because he is a Muslim and don't want to apply the same logic to others.if US was Muslim country and invaded a non Muslim country you would have supported them too..he plundered somnath not for the faith but for it's riches at that time.
You just want to support him and identify with him and want others to accept that because that gives you an identity,but you are far away from truth.plese quote me when you can apply same logic to others

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Haha,bro,you just support him because he is a Muslim and don't want to apply the same logic to others

Not sure about him. But yes, a muslim has the right to fight his enemies and deserves our respect because he spread Islam. The plunder was collateral damage.

By your logic you should not be crying when US invaded Iraq and if they have bombed any of the holy sites there

The US would not dare to. The Afghans defeated them. They won't win against united muslim opposition.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Mahmud Ghaznavi was a powerful ruler of the Ghaznavid Empire. He was born in Ghazni, and ruled over the Ghaznavid Empire for a period of 32 years, from 998 to 1030 AD. He was the first ruler to use the title of Sultan, which reflected the fact that he recognised the Abbasid Caliphate as being suzerain over him. He was also the first major Muslim leader to come from South Asia.

Under Ghaznavi, the empire expanded to include most of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Central Asia and Iran, however, the main territories of the Ghaznavid Empire were considered to be Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is reflected by the fact that the two largest cities of the empire existed within the boundaries of those two nations (Ghazni and Lahore). Mahmud Ghaznavi also launched numerous raids into Hindustan, looting and depopulating numerous cities as well as destroying/damaging many statues and temples, such as the famous Soomnath Temple. He even went as far as to vow he would raid Hindustan on a yearly basis for as long as possible.

Ghaznavi maintained a large and powerful army, which mostly consisted of Turks, Pashtuns and Punjabis. Ghaznavi would often use these different ethnic groups to keep each other in check, e.g if Pashtuns started causing trouble he would send Punjabis to deal with them. What's most notable about his military is that it had many people of Hindu origin fighting within it, and even several of his generals were of a Hindu background. However, it can be assumed with relative certainty that these people were only Hindu by birth, and were unlikely to have actually practised the religion since Ghaznavid soldiers we involved in frequent attacks on Hindu holy sites as mentioned earlier. The Ghaznavid army was also the first Muslim army to make use of war elephants.

It was also under Mahmud Ghaznavis rule that Islam and Persian culture was firmly established in Pakistan, with many people from Pakistan converting to Islam (thanks to missionaries) and many foreign Muslims migrating to the region. Since these Muslims were mostly of a Persian background, this also allowed for Persian culture to be established in Pakistan, particularly Lahore which became a hub for Persian culture. The effects of this are still seen today, e.g Urdu has many Farsi loan words and is written in Nastaliq script.

Mahmud Ghaznavi is remembered most fondly by people from Afghanistan and Pakistan. He is liked in Afghanistan because he was born there, developed the region significantly (especially Ghazni) and had many Afghans working in his army and administration. He is liked in Pakistan because he firmly established Islam in the region (which allowed for Pakistan to exist in the first place), developed the region significantly (especially Lahore), brought Persian culture which influenced Pakistan immensely, had many Pakistanis work in his army and administration, brought along with him many people who settled and intermarried with the local population of Pakistan, and because the areas of Baluchistan, KPK and FATA have also been historically associated with Afghanistan. The Pakistani military has also named a missile after him. Many Turks also speak fondly of him as he had Turkic ancestry and employed many Turks in his army and administration.

He is most hated by Hindustanis as he looted and depopulated their country on a regular basis.

Ghaznavid Empire under Mahmud Ghaznavi:

View attachment 464565

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_of_Ghazni
http://storyofpakistan.com/mahmud-ghaznavi
http://historypak.com/mahmood-ghaznavi/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaznavids

Sometimes I thank British who took over and brought new tech, hospital, education and railway to this subcontinent.

What Hindus Rajazz and Muslim kings contribute for an ordinary people? Nothing...

It was British empire who brought education and awareness and within 100 years local people got educated and started political struggle against British rulers and got independence.

Thanks Queen.