What's new

Mahershala Ali becomes first Muslim actor to win an Oscar!

@war&peace: isn't it delightfully ironic that our posts were deleted? For we were recounting a decision the State of Pakistan has been proud of and it was classed as "insulting" and "flame-baiting".

When there's no difference between pro-Pakistan and anti-Pakistan rhetoric then what doubt can there be that something needs to change?
 
.
Do you ever stop and think before you speak? I don't mean this in jest but in all seriousness. Are you saying, me trying to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) is faking it to be a Muslim? How does this even make sense? I don't call myself a Muslim to troll you guys. Seriously as much as I love trolling, that's not the case.

The Arabs knew exactly who we were back then as well, Ahmadi preachers have been in Arab lands for nearly a century. And Sir Zafrullah Khan (rh) never hid he was an Ahmadi. Even Jinnah saheb (rh) knew him to be an Ahmadi so did most of the leadership of Muslim League and people of Pakistan and this is why even some Arab newspapers published news that even if we have doctrinal differences, we still respect and are grateful for his defense of Palestine. Which is the reason why the Saudi King extended him his invitation.

Mate it is not hurt you or any Qadiyani's feelings okay...Do we have any personal issues..No,..we perhaps never met in real life so I have nothing personal against you, or for that matter, any Qadiyani ... But following the sunnah is one thing but the key is to believe in the core. And finality of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) is most important concept along with believing in one Allah only. I know religion is a sensitive issue but that's the main difference. If anyone does not accept this fundamental belief, he cannot be called a Muslim..
Though I don not consider the current generations of the qadiyanis as apostates since they are born qadiyanis so there should be no repercussions against them and their life and property must be respected and they should be treated as any other citizen of the country but still we can't accept them as Muslims until and unless they openly declare adherence to this believe and shun Mirza of Qadiyan as Prophet, Mujadid etc.

I feel for you and my feeling for you are the same as of the teacher who's student failed in the exam...the teacher will feel sorry for his student but he can't just pass the student until the student obtains the minimum score to pass. This is an emotional issue but at the same time merit needs to upheld. I would really recommend you, as a friend, to study the Holy Quran and Hadith and rectify yourself..may Allah bless you with true faith man..

BTW if you read the history, this declaration came from KSA, all the scholars at Masjid-e-Haram declared that and Pakistan just made it part of the constitution after the incident in which some Muslims were beaten and killed n the train while passing through their city and we have been through this discussion multiple times. This was necessary since Pakistan was the country with the largest and original community of Qadiyanis..
 
Last edited:
. .
@war&peace: isn't it delightfully ironic that our posts were deleted? For we were recounting a decision the State of Pakistan has been proud of and it was classed as "insulting" and "flame-baiting".

When there's no difference between pro-Pakistan and anti-Pakistan rhetoric then what doubt can there be that something needs to change?
Man, I wish we could have more open debate but there are rules on this forum and they needs to be followed. A lot of times my posts also get deleted and some with with very funny reasons :lol: and I have started to make a log of those notices :) to look back and enjoy :).

Yeah but back to the main topic bro, you actually said that it was just the decision of the parliament which I find nothing but over-simplification of a very complex and serious situation / incident. There is a complete history behind it. You will need to read it through and without being biased. I should mention that today's Qadiyanis are the citizen of Pakistan and our constitution ensures there rights and I stress to all my Muslim fellows to respect that fact and ensure not to hurt any member of Qadiyani community i.e. his or her life or property..They must be treated as equal citizens and they are treated as such, as Zafar-ulah-Khan was the one of the most prominent qadiyani leaders who was appointed as the first foreign minister of Pakistan by the founder of the country Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. By the way, qadiyanis call the muslims as kafirs :lol: and sir Zafar-ullah Khan did not participate in the funeral of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammd Ali Jinnah because he believed the latter was infidel and it was much before they were declared kafirs in the constitution rather he was the foreign minister of Pakistan at that time so it also trickled down to whether we are Muslim or they are?
 
Last edited:
.
...today's Qadiyanis are the citizen of Pakistan and our constitution ensures there rights...
Have you actually read Pakistan's constitution? There's plenty of wiggle room in its wording to reduce a minority's "rights" to mere tolerance by the majority, especially as expressed by Pakistani law.

Did you know that after 9/11 it was the Ahmadi community in America that took the lead to assure America of Islam's peaceful nature and thus reduced the possibility of blind retributive violence against all Muslims? Are Pakistanis truly wise to reduce such people to the status of non-Muslims? Especially since other Muslim-majority countries don't? Doesn't that uniqueness imply Pakistan's dominant religion isn't Islam but something else instead?
 
.
Why does anyone in Pakistan even care if Mahershali Ali call himself a Muslim or not? He's neither Pakistani nor lives in Pakistan, so those labels don't apply to him. And personally, I don't think he cares. This debate on whether he's a Muslim or not is strictly within the Muslim community. As for non-Muslims, if someone calls himself/herself a Muslim, who are we to tell them otherwise?

Last time I checked this was Pakistani site with majority of Pakistani's being muslim ... so where it does not concern us of his personal life but it does interest us as muslim's in general to know more about him as it is a open story in the media nothing wrong with that cloud4000.
 
.
Have you actually read Pakistan's constitution? There's plenty of wiggle room in its wording to reduce a minority's "rights" to mere tolerance by the majority, especially as expressed by Pakistani law.

Did you know that after 9/11 it was the Ahmadi community in America that took the lead to assure America of Islam's peaceful nature and thus reduced the possibility of blind retributive violence against all Muslims? Are Pakistanis truly wise to reduce such people to the status of non-Muslims? Especially since other Muslim-majority countries don't? Doesn't that uniqueness imply Pakistan's dominant religion isn't Islam but something else instead?
I think I have already said enough and now I just see your posts for the sake of prolonging the debate without adding anything positive so .. I stop here and I request you not to mentioned or quote me on this thread for this topic.
 
.
Mate it is not hurt you or any Qadiyani's feelings okay...Do we have any personal issues..No,..we perhaps never met in real life so I have nothing personal against you, or for that matter, any Qadiyani ... But following the sunnah is one thing but the key is to believe in the core. And finality of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) is most important concept along with believing in one Allah only. I know religion is a sensitive issue but that's the main difference. If anyone does not accept this fundamental belief, he cannot be called a Muslim..
Though I don not consider the current generations of the qadiyanis as apostates since they are born qadiyanis so there should be no repercussions against them and their life and property must be respected and they should be treated as any other citizen of the country but still we can't accept them as Muslims until and unless they openly declare adherence to this believe and shun Mirza of Qadiyan as Prophet, Mujadid etc.

I feel for you and my feeling for you are the same as of the teacher who's student failed in the exam...the teacher will feel sorry for his student but he can't just pass the student until the student obtains the minimum score to pass. This is an emotional issue but at the same time merit needs to upheld. I would really recommend you, as a friend, to study the Holy Quran and Hadith and rectify yourself..may Allah bless you with true faith man..

BTW if you read the history, this declaration came from KSA, all the scholars at Masjid-e-Haram declared that and Pakistan just made it part of the constitution after the incident in which some Muslims were beaten and killed n the train while passing through their city and we have been through this discussion multiple times. This was necessary since Pakistan was the country with the largest and original community of Qadiyanis..

The difference in belief on the finality of Prophethood (saw) is just that, a difference in interpretation. To me, it makes sense to me that no human can live in the heavens for over a thousand years and then return on the shoulders of angels. This not only rejects basic natural laws of Allah the Almighty, but also contradict many verses and hadiths, going in to which will derail the thread. Which is obviously what happens anyway whenever an Ahmadi related thread is mentioned.

I will never reject Mirza Saheb (as) and conform to the belief of the clergy who proclaim the end Messiah will massacre all human beings who reject him, something that even the Prophet (saw) himself did not do. No I am sorry, it is not possible for me to accept such a belief that stones will speak and call the Muslims to kill Jews, regardless of their crimes, only because they are Jews. I cannot accept that the Dajjal is some physical monster borrowed straight from Greek mythology. I would rather accept the rational and logical interpretations alluding to it's non literal meanings. You are welcome to believe that there is a Prophet of God who lives in heavens, and we can all wait and see if a Prophet ever descends. I don't want to disappoint you, but the Jews are waiting for the second of Elijah (as) first, which is why they rejected Isa (as) because they said no, our old prophet needs to descend from heaven, with chariots who will defeat our enemies physically instead of spiritually. Well my friend, go ahead and wait like the Jews and take all prophecies as literal, go ahead.

Also, you allude to my lack of knowledge and feign sympathy, but then in the same breath go on to say how the decision was made after non Ahmadis were killed during Rabwah Railway incident, you only betray your own ignorance of this matter. Not a single non Ahmadi was killed. There were injuries on both sides, and the incident began when non Ahmadis chanted slogans and tried to harass Ahmadi women. I will not call you a liar, perhaps you said this out of ignorance rather than any purposeful misinformation, but no one was killed.

You are not my teacher. You don't need to feel sorry for me. I have studied everything myself. I have explained on this forum that I am a former Marxist/Leninst. I was only a cultural Ahmadi few years ago, the only reason I mentioned this is so you don't turn around and say I was brainwashed etc. I studied everything from A-Z. I know where the Sunnis stand, I know where the Shias stand. I not only read the Holy Qur'an myself, I also teach it at the local Mosque. Again, I don't mean this to boast, but only to explain to you that where I stand today, I stand because this is where I feel most comfortable in.
 
Last edited:
.
...I would rather accept the rational and logical interpretations alluding to it's non literal meanings...
What do you think of the initiative to require teaching Arabic in Pakistani schools? Almost the first thing the students will discover is that Arabic is full of allusions. Yet how can Pakistanis teach this, if such allusive interpretations that could lead to Ahmadiyya are forbidden? And if Pakistanis aren't allowed to learn this, how can they communicate with Arab Muslims effectively, let alone understand the Qu'ran?

Good material for Ali's next Oscar-winning movie, yes?
 
.
What do you think of the initiative to require teaching Arabic in Pakistani schools? Almost the first thing the students will discover is that Arabic is full of allusions. Yet how can Pakistangis teach this, if such allusive interpretations that could lead to Ahmadiyya are forbidden? And if Pakistanis aren't allowed to learn this, how can they communicate with Arab Muslims effectively, let alone understand the Qu'ran?

Good material for Ali's next Oscar-winning movie, yes?

Thanks for the link, interesting read.

Arabic has always been taught in some form or another in Pakistan. Also, I think most religious texts when speaking about future/prophetic events always use highly allusive language to paint vivid pictures that seek to grab the readers/listener's attention.

For example, even the ouses similar terminology:

As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Isn't it amazing how similar the ascent of a prophet to heaven is in so many different religions yet to date, none has ever descended physically from the sky?
 
.
mirza means nothing to Muslims

the ahmedis can do what they like, they should be allowed freely worship in their temples

but the prominence of this mirza is an abomination to any muslim worthy of the name

aslong as the ahmedis be and identify as ahmedi then its cool the moment they misrepresent islam and misrepresent their beleifs as islam then that is unforgivable
 
.
Mahershala Ali was great as villain in netflix series Luke cage. will see moonlight good for him to win an award.
 
.
...As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Or when the Bible says "the sun stood still and the moon stayed -", yes.

Isn't it amazing how similar the ascent of a prophet to heaven is in so many different religions yet to date, none has ever descended physically from the sky?
I'm not sure about other religions but in Judaism the core event isn't that of any Prophet but when G-d descended Mount Sinai to address all the Israelites directly: link
 
.
I'm not sure about other religions but in Judaism the core event isn't that of any Prophet but when G-d descended Mount Sinai to address all the Israelites directly: link

Do you believe that G-d descended physically or is this allusion/metaphor for revelation descending on the Prophet Moses (as)?
 
.
Do you believe that G-d descended physically or is this allusion/metaphor for revelation descending on the Prophet Moses (as)?
The passage about G-d speaking directly to the all the Israelites, Exodus 20, is specific that only after the Ten Commandments were given did the Israelites petition Moses to accept being an intermediary for the rest. (So Moses was a Prophet before and after the Ten Commandments but not for the Ten Commandments themselves.)

I suppose it's then up to the reader to decide whether Moses really spoke to G-d afterwards or whether it's just an allusion and Moses made it all up while walking through thunderstorms for forty days and nights...or what seemed like forty days and nights...or what seemed like thunderstorms...
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom