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Mahatma Gandhi vs Quaid-e-Azam, MA Jinnah

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I wish all human being follow his non violence ideology:smitten::smitten:

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------not to hear evil----------------not to see evil---------------not speak evil

I disagree. Evil must be confronted not run away from. E.g. If you are attacked by Taliban you are supposed to act like one of those three monkeys?
 
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Dude, i agree that Nehru and Wdwina were let us say having an affair, but if it was known, hwy would lord mountbatten favor India.... the rest of your post does not make sense for e.g.

- Why would Mountbatten ask Jinnah to be the Governer General of Pakistan and why would jinnah refuse.... i think it was the other way around
Here's a quote from an article from an Indian news:
She also revealed that her father was bitterly disappointed not to become Governor General of both India and Pakistan. "....When it became obvious that Jinnah announced he is going to be Governor General himself then, for my father, it was a terrible problem whether to stay or not. My mother (Edwina) actually suggested that he really ought to leave because...he would be accused of favouring India against Pakistan.."
'Lord Mountbatten thought Partition was crazy'

- And IRA is not Indian Republican Army, it is IRISH republican army, adds no perspective to this post
I didnt say it was, if you read that article it says that Lord Mountbatten was GAY and Nehru had GAY tendencies, why would Lord Mountbatten be alright of Nehru sleeping with his wife, if there wasn't anything weird happening between the the three of them?

- Having an affair does not make Nehru wrong and Jinnah selfless and intelligent.... stop being judgemental
Nehru had a weird VERY CLOSE relationship with the Mountbattens and the Mountbattens were in charge of British India before the partition. Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was much older in age than Nehru, much more intelligent also..he was a lawyer and never lost a case in court. Also he was in his later stages of tuberculosis during partition, he knew his time was over soon, he didn't do anything for himself in his last 5 years of life.
 
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Allama Iqbal died long before Pakistan's independence and he was the one who came up with the idea of a Muslim country in Muslim majority North west British India for Muslims of British India. He then persuaded Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah to take over the Muslim League, at first Quaid-e-Azam was reluctant but then he saw discrimination in Congress against Muslims so he joined the Muslim League.

That is why I was comparing Gandhi with Iqbal.
 
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@ OMAR
I didnt say it was, if you read that article it says that Lord Mountbatten was GAY and Nehru had GAY tendencies, why would Lord Mountbatten be alright of Nehru sleeping with his wife, if there wasn't anything weird happening between the the three of them?

You got some serious conspiracy theories going on .... the link does not say that Nehru and Mountbatten was gay..... the link says nehru MAY be gay by some moron..... It is a probability not evidence beyond doubt... he has as much chances of being a gay as you have... going by your own logic you should also be a gay ... isn't it?

AND WHERE DOES IT MENTION THAT MOUNTBATTEN AND NEHRU WERE GAY?

No, I'm not gay and no one wrote an article about me having gay tendencies like your nehru.

Lord Mountbatten was gay:
'Lord' Mountbatten was particularly attracted to boys in their early teens ; it was this characteristic which made him especially vulnerable to the IRA , because he needed to slip away from his personal bodyguards to keep dates with such boys , some of whom came in contact with IRA men .
<1169 And Counting.....

And Nehru had gay tendencies. Also everyone in India knew Edwina Mountbatten and Nehru were having an affair, why would Lord Mountbatten be alright with his wife sleeping with Nehru?

Anyways this thread is not about Mountbattens or Nehru, its about Gandhi and Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah and we discussed Nehru's affair with the Mountbattens in the following thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/24753-nehru-edwina-affair-responsible-partition-3.html
 
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Nehru was sleeping with the Mountbattens and through that romantic relationship, the British favored India over Pakistan.

Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was much older, wiser, and honest than Nehru.

Quaid-e-Azam was more friends with Gandhi than Nehru. Both Quaid-e-Azam and Gandhi went to study law in London together and knew each other for long time.

Omar...I would like to know, in what way did the British Favor India over Pakistan...I mean Did we get any fringe benefits based off this apparent favorable disposition they had towards us Indians?
.....Please elaborate...probably a part of history that I might have missed out on...Im very interested in learning!!

And not that Nehru is one I would defend for any reason, but being the first PM of my country....I still look up to him being that there had to be some greatness in the man....So what made Jinnah smarter....coz from where Im sitting and using your logic....Nehru gave Edwina a good rogering to secure interests for his country and people.....Dont think you can get smarter than that...I mean hell...didnt really cost him much...LOL!!! I wonder what else he could have bartered?

Even then I dont think you have or I have any way of proving either ones smartness/wiseness/honesty......so stay away from personal remarks about our leaders brother!!!
 
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Omar...I would like to know, in what way did the British Favor India over Pakistan...I mean Did we get any fringe benefits based off this apparent favorable disposition they had towards us Indians?
.....Please elaborate...probably a part of history that I might have missed out on...Im very interested in learning!!

And not that Nehru is one I would defend for any reason, but being the first PM of my country....I still look up to him being that there had to be some greatness in the man....So what made Jinnah smarter....coz from where Im sitting and using your logic....Nehru gave Edwina a good rogering to secure interests for his country and people.....Dont think you can get smarter than that...I mean hell...didnt really cost him much...LOL!!! I wonder what else he could have bartered?

Even then I dont think you have or I have any way of proving either ones smartness/wiseness/honesty......so stay away from personal remarks about our leaders brother!!!

From an Indian website:

Prior to the Partition of India, Ferozpur had a large Muslim majority. According to the Partition Plan, all Muslim majority regions were to accede to Pakistan and all Hindu and Sikh majority regions to India. However, allegedly pro-Indian Lord Mountbatten changed the original partition map, drawn by Sir Radcliffe, handing over Gurdaspur, Ferozpur,Ambala and Mansa district to India. During the first week of partition massive violence erupted in Ferozpur, resulting in the slaughter of thousands of Muslims by Sikhs and Hindus. After the Partition a lot of movement had occurred from both sides of the Border. Today, Ferozpur has a Sikh and Hindu majority with a virtually non-existent Muslim population, as a result of the wide-scale massacres and immigration. There are a couple of Muslim families resided on the border side of Ferozpur and Pakistan, but have changed there faith to Sikhism and adapted the Sidhu surname.
Punjabizm :: History and Photo Gallery of Punjab's districts.
 
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From an Indian website:

Prior to the Partition of India, Ferozpur had a large Muslim majority. According to the Partition Plan, all Muslim majority regions were to accede to Pakistan and all Hindu and Sikh majority regions to India. However, allegedly pro-Indian Lord Mountbatten changed the original partition map, drawn by Sir Radcliffe, handing over Gurdaspur, Ferozpur,Ambala and Mansa district to India. During the first week of partition massive violence erupted in Ferozpur, resulting in the slaughter of thousands of Muslims by Sikhs and Hindus. After the Partition a lot of movement had occurred from both sides of the Border. Today, Ferozpur has a Sikh and Hindu majority with a virtually non-existent Muslim population, as a result of the wide-scale massacres and immigration. There are a couple of Muslim families resided on the border side of Ferozpur and Pakistan, but have changed there faith to Sikhism and adapted the Sidhu surname.
Punjabizm :: History and Photo Gallery of Punjab's districts.


Thank you for the link.....Wasn't aware of a bias that existed....

However I would like to point out that the article speculates that Mountbatten was "allegedly" Pro-India....

In addition I would also like to present the case of NWFP where the popularly elected government of Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan with his majority in LA was NOT allowed to decide its fate under the same Mountbatten plan....In fact, these folks wanted to be independent as Pukhtoons!!! However, this vital piece of land was given on a silver platter to Jinnah and the Pakistanis.....

Now based on the above, I see that NWFP is a much larger portion of land that was basically handed to Pakistan by the Mountbatten commission....Should this be considered favoring towards Pakistan??

What are your views on this brother?
 
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^ NWFP as well as the other 4 provinces of Pakistan decided in a referendum to join Pakistan. FATA and Pakistan government had an agreement of not meddling in each other's affairs but FATA stays as part of Pakistan. Kashmir was not given a referendum, hence the dispute.

There were many Pakhtoons such as Muhammad Aslam Khan Khattak and Abdul Qayyum Khan who were key figures in the Pakistan movement.

If NWFP didn't chose Pakistan in a referendum, it would not be a province of Pakistan and would be like FATA (a territory which is not entirely governed by Pakistan). All the provinces we have (NWFP, Punjab, Sindh, and Balochistan) chose Pakistan in a referendum. FATA, Northern Areas, and Azad Kashmir are not provinces because we had only agreements with the people of these areas.
 
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^ NWFP as well as the other 4 provinces of Pakistan decided in a referendum to join Pakistan. FATA and Pakistan government had an agreement of not meddling in each other's affairs but FATA stays as part of Pakistan. Kashmir was not given a referendum, hence the dispute.

There were many Pakhtoons such as Muhammad Aslam Khan Khattak and Abdul Qayyum Khan who were key figures in the Pakistan movement.

If NWFP didn't chose Pakistan in a referendum, it would not be a province of Pakistan and would be like FATA (a territory which is not entirely governed by Pakistan). All the provinces we have (NWFP, Punjab, Sindh, and Balochistan) chose Pakistan in a referendum. FATA, Northern Areas, and Azad Kashmir are not provinces because we had only agreements with the people of these areas.

Let's leave Kashmir out of the equation for this round...LOL

However from what I read, NWFP wanted an independent Pakhtoon land....now the fact that they werent allowed to have this choice, but were instead forced into a situation where they had to choose, between India and Pakistan means that Pakistan received this on a platter..how we say it in Mumbai....."Halwa"
Obviously NWFP was bound to choose Pakistan as they would want to live side by side with other muslims....if given the choice based on public opinion....Im assuming.

So the topic at hand was....Did Mountbatten favor India and what inherent advantages did it yield.....I feel Pakistan got a pretty sweet deal here as well...so I think the pro-India argument that you presented does not sustain....

Thats all I want coming from this exchange....
 
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Let's leave Kashmir out of the equation for this round...LOL

However from what I read, NWFP wanted an independent Pakhtoon land....now the fact that they werent allowed to have this choice, but were instead forced into a situation where they had to choose, between India and Pakistan means that Pakistan received this on a platter..how we say it in Mumbai....."Halwa"
Obviously NWFP was bound to choose Pakistan as they would want to live side by side with other muslims....if given the choice based on public opinion....Im assuming.

Pakhtoons did not want an independent Pakhtoon land. You Indians claim to come from largest democracy but dont know how democracy works. Majority of Pakhtoons wanted to join Pakistan.
From Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ghaffar Khan strongly opposed the partition of India.[5][6] While some Pashtuns (particularly the Red Shirts) were willing to work with Indian politicians, many Pashtuns were sympathetic to the idea of a separate homeland for India's Muslims following the departure of the British. Targeted with being Anti-Muslim, Ghaffar Khan was attacked in 1946, leading to his hospitalization in Peshawar.[11]

The Congress party refused last ditch compromises to prevent the partition, like the Cabinet Mission plan and Gandhi's suggestion to offer the Prime Ministership to Jinnah. As a result Bacha Khan and his followers felt a sense of betrayal by both Pakistan and India. Bacha Khan's last words to Gandhi and his erstwhile allies in the Congress party were: "You have thrown us to the wolves."[12]

When the referendum over accession to Pakistan was held, most voters chose Pakistan by a margin of 9 to 1 in 1947. A loya jirga in the Tribal Areas also garnered a similar result as most preferred to become part of Pakistan. Ghaffar Khan and his Khudai Khidmatgars, however, chose to boycott the polls. When given a choice between Pakistan and India, most voters chose Pakistan by a margin of 9 to 1 in 1947. Some have argued that a segment of the population voted was barred from voting,[13]; but there exists no conclusive evidence to support such a proposition.



So the topic at hand was....Did Mountbatten favor India and what inherent advantages did it yield.....I feel Pakistan got a pretty sweet deal here as well...so I think the pro-India argument that you presented does not sustain....

Thats all I want coming from this exchange....

Ferozpur was a district in United British Punjab. According to the Partition plan, muslim majority areas of Punjab were to be given to Pakistan and non-muslim majority areas were to be given to India. Sir Radcliffe first drew the border between Pakistan and India and gave Ferozpur to Pakistan because it was Muslim majority in Punjab, Lord Mountbatten later decided to change the border and gave that Muslim majority district to India causing millions of Muslims to migrate and be killed by Hindus/Sikhs. He was very pro-Indian and not only Pakistanis believe this.
 
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Pakhtoons did not want an independent Pakhtoon land. You Indians claim to come from largest democracy but dont know how democracy works. Majority of Pakhtoons wanted to join Pakistan.
From Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ghaffar Khan strongly opposed the partition of India.[5][6] While some Pashtuns (particularly the Red Shirts) were willing to work with Indian politicians, many Pashtuns were sympathetic to the idea of a separate homeland for India's Muslims following the departure of the British. Targeted with being Anti-Muslim, Ghaffar Khan was attacked in 1946, leading to his hospitalization in Peshawar.[11]

The Congress party refused last ditch compromises to prevent the partition, like the Cabinet Mission plan and Gandhi's suggestion to offer the Prime Ministership to Jinnah. As a result Bacha Khan and his followers felt a sense of betrayal by both Pakistan and India. Bacha Khan's last words to Gandhi and his erstwhile allies in the Congress party were: "You have thrown us to the wolves."[12]

When the referendum over accession to Pakistan was held, most voters chose Pakistan by a margin of 9 to 1 in 1947. A loya jirga in the Tribal Areas also garnered a similar result as most preferred to become part of Pakistan. Ghaffar Khan and his Khudai Khidmatgars, however, chose to boycott the polls. When given a choice between Pakistan and India, most voters chose Pakistan by a margin of 9 to 1 in 1947. Some have argued that a segment of the population voted was barred from voting,[13]; but there exists no conclusive evidence to support such a proposition.

My Friend....If someone from a country whose government or its leaders could survive one term without being executed or overthrown, was lecturing me about democracy then I would give it an ear....I care about your opinion on Indian democracy and Indian ideals as much as I care about a barking Yorkie....so please continue..Us Indians are not perturbed.

Now coming to the discussion.....My argument is that if the Pakhtoons wanted their own land and the right to decide this was in the hands of the elected majority Under Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan and his majority party in Legislative Assembly, then denying them the right to choose was as good as giving the land to Pakistan...Why?

Well because given a referendum, why would a muslim majority area want to vote itself to a country where they would automatically become the minority?...So Im not least bit surprised about the 9 to 1 vote in favor of Pakistan....though it seems to make you very proud....Kudos.
So in laymans terms, I like Mercedes cars, however my only choice is to go with a BMW or a Jaguar....I believe you understand the rest....

Now Im sure you would argue that Khan Sahib did not speak for all folks in NWFP....understandable....but thats never going to happen as people have different opinions....dont you think that is the reason why this forum exists in the first place?? However the elected majority party always is allowed to decide the fate of its people.....as was the case during partition where the Muslim league decided the fate for Indian Muslims.....Not all Muslims in India wanted a seperate country....

Hence I feel that there were exceptions to the rule made during partition, that favored both India and Pakistan......by the same Mountbatten commision!

On a seperate note...Im actually very happy that India did not inherit this piece of land....especially in the backdrop of the current scenario....We rid the problems of our back!!!

I understand that we may never see eye to eye as we are from diiferent ends of the spectrum....However I do see where you're coming from and can understand your perspective.....Though you should remember where Im from and look at it through my eyes....Please keep an open mind!
 
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^ Dear Mr Peshwa,

It doesn't matter what the leader wants, it matters what the PEOPLE want.
MAJORITY of people in NWFP wanted to join Pakistan, they didn't want their own Pakhtoon country.

As for the Muslims of British India, both my grandparents were strong supporters of the Pakistan movement and my grandfather said millions would gather to hear Quaid-e-Azam's public speeches. Millions were happy they were getting a separate homeland for Muslims.

It doesn't matter what the leader wants or a few people want, it matters what the majority wants...thats how democracy works.

I'm also glad that we separated our land from hindu majority areas.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!
 
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i take my words back. i have no intension to hurt anybody sentiments.:undecided::undecided::undecided:
 
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I M sure U R not an Indian:disagree:

Smart simple tell us if tefal is telling the truth and not revoke his citizenship.

I thought India pride itself in freedom of speech or it is just a front to fool people. Tell us the truth. We need truth and not objections on someones citizenship.

so go ahead tell us the truth, i know u can do it
 
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