Madrassa reforms - Suggestions

[Hollow Field]

If and when the government comes up with a viable strategy for Madressa Reform and Management, they should roll it out in small discreet phases. I noticed in Pakistan, they make a grand statement and try to do everything at once and then forget about it. These sudden reform statements cause adverse reactions and opposition.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

Madrassahs are inseparably linked with sectarianism. It was Saladin, who after overthrowing the Fatimids in the twelvth century, established "Madrassahs" in Egypt for the first time, for "sectarian" purposes ... The stated purpose was to "Convert Shias to Sunni Islam" .. The prestigious Al Azhar University was converted into a Shafi'ite Sunni center of learning by Saladin, and all books in the library were burnt ... .. A little knowledge of history is indeed very helpful in understanding the dynamics of sectarianism in Islam and the role played by "Madrassahs" ...

Why not go beyond the era of Saladin if History is a subject to understand sectarianism ?
And why not provide credible references to support what you have said.

Blow them up with C4 along with anyone who protests against such action.
Execute all mullahs raising their voices against the state afterwards.
These bastards have done wboigh harms to the country and the religion of Islam.

They are the people with exactly same mentality as of you. You born in some urban family and learned English so your method of terrorism and hate are different. But in the end, you are no less then a TTP.

Suppose such a board has two dozen members. The Saudis can bribe each with $200,000 and then control the curriculum, yes?

LOlx.... So in this way why not you abandon the post of your prime minister ? Because you have some hard lessons learned in this regard. #Ehud_Olmert

And maybe twice that plus an armored limo for the minister.

Lolz again

What for? To what effect?

Whats the point of asking ? should we not let them travel for recreations ?

 

[Solomon2]

Whats the point of asking ? should we not let them travel for recreations ?

Explain what is meant by "recreation", please.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Right now, what I believe is that the difference can be reconciled or at least we can learn to live side by side without hurting each other as productive members of the society.

And unfortunately the supposedly Islamic Laws of Islamic Republic of Pakistan are the biggest hurdle in any such reconciliation. Remember the 'Sect-Free' Darul Iman Jamia Masjid Qurtuba’s story ? the idea was to call upon its followers to stop discriminating along sectarian lines and to start praying together – in whichever way they like – under the same roof. ........ Authorities refused to register it as a sect-free mosque. Under Capital Development Authority rules, every mosque has to declare its sect following, before being granted permission to build the mosque... Our laws are in contradiction with clear Quranic Injunctions. The Holy Quran forbids Muslims to divide themselves (into sects) but our laws require Muslims to identify themselves with sects .... Similarly our constitution recognizes sects and division along sectarian lines.

The right way forward, in my opinion, is to form a central committee/board of scholars from all schools of thought to advise qualified education experts and help them formulate standard curriculum for all religious seminaries in Pakistan .... Those who refuse to comply should be shut down.... There should be a complete ban on hate speech and spreading sectarianism should be declared an act of treason against the state ..

but the islam of barelvis can be called anything but islam

Bro, our forefathers converted to Islam not because of some Arabized hate spewing bearded bigots killing innocent people in the name of Islam ... Islam spread in the Indian sub-continent through "Khanqahi Nizam", through sufis, through Aulia ... The message of peace can be delivered through love and compassion only ... not through swords, or bombs

 

[war&peace]

And unfortunately the supposedly Islamic Laws of Islamic Republic of Pakistan are the biggest hurdle in any such reconciliation. Remember the 'Sect-Free' Darul Iman Jamia Masjid Qurtuba’s story ? the idea was to call upon its followers to stop discriminating along sectarian lines and to start praying together

No sir, I didn't know about it but that seems to be a great idea. However, the masjid in a small town near Multan where my parental home is located was created for all sects and both Shia, Sunni and even Wahabis, all used to pray together..though it has been more than 7 - 8 years since the last time I prayed there.

Authorities refused to register it as a sect-free mosque. Under Capital Development Authority rules, every mosque has to declare its sect following, before being granted permission to build the mosque... Our laws are in contradiction with clear Quranic Injunctions. The Holy Quran forbids Muslims to divide themselves (into sects) but our laws require Muslims to identify themselves with sects .... Similarly our constitution recognizes sects and division along sectarian lines.

That's really shocking, and unfortunate, because I don't know about the laws regarding registration of the masjid and why CDA acted like that. Yes you are right Quran clearly wants us to avoid sectarianism and be united through it (Quran) and it is the only book that remains to be uncontroversial. But sir, I don't know if our constitution requires one to identify one's sectarian affiliation at least not for NICOP and passports..is it any different for dual passport holders?.

The right way forward, in my opinion, is to form a central committee/board of scholars from all schools of thought to advise qualified education experts and help them formulate standard curriculum for all religious seminaries in Pakistan .... Those who refuse to comply should be shut down.... There should be a complete ban on hate speech and spreading sectarianism should be declared an act of treason against the state ..

Agreed 100%

 

[Khan_patriot]

And how are you different than TTP then since they also say the same thing?
You are suggesting about killing millions of people [supporters] ?
So if a libtard suggests about killing millions openly and publicly it is OK and it is fine but if the religious extremists who plan to do the same but at much smaller scale are bad...

I don't know about you people but I am a simple man, if some has killed innocemt Pakistanis and people close to me and will probably do the same to me without batting an eye I am going to do the same if given the chance.
Have your ever tried reasoning with these people, I would assume not, because if you had you would have known how draconian their belife system is and how easily they would stamp you or anyone else out as an infidel worthy of cold blooded murder.
They have taken the entire country hostage, minorites are being executed blatantly, women at not being given their rights, children, student and professionals are dying at their hands but they have nothing to worry about because they have taken the country by its balls. People are more worried about political correctness then taking decisive action and I fear this might be our undoing.

 

[Well.wisher]

Molvi or madrassas are never responsible for unrest in pakistan. They've never been in power , it's only our God fearless politicians .
Stop blaming madrasa for every wrong you jahils.

Some reforms are already underway. Here are other suggestions.

1. Establish federal madrassa board.

2. Minister for madrassa affairs.

3. Educational and Recreational trip programmes.

4. Three to six month courses in affiliation with NCA (National College of Arts) in different trades.

5. Introduction of NCC.

6. Appointment of Physical Education Teacher and start of sports activities.

All madrassas should be run like we're runing darul uloom madrassa. It's a perfect example of how madrassas should be run .

 

[war&peace]

I don't know about you people but I am a simple man, if some has killed innocemt Pakistanis and people close to me and will probably do the same to me without batting an eye I am going to do the same if given the chance.
Have your ever tried reasoning with these people, I would assume not, because if you had you would have known how draconian their belife system is and how easily they would stamp you or anyone else out as an infidel worthy of cold blooded murder.
They have taken the entire country hostage, minorites are being executed blatantly, women at not being given their rights, children, student and professionals are dying at their hands but they have nothing to worry about because they have taken the country by its balls. People are more worried about political correctness then taking decisive action and I fear this might be our undoing.

I really don't know what is your definition of the "simple man"..but I think a lot of good hearted people in Pakistan fit my definition of 'simple people’ or simpletons who send their kids to madrassahs so their kids can learn about their religion -- Islam. Now if you are advocating killing all these kids...I see no difference between you and a petty terrorist in the street buddy..it is just you haven't got the means or balls to do what you have in your head. Just rewind the history a few years around 2005 or 2006 that when a single US drone strike killed around 85 INNOCENT under-teen-age kids which people like you may call them terrorists, and then the firoun of the time P. Musharraf claimed disgracefully as his doing and that was the start of all the mess the country has witnessed. He is responsible for this precarious situation and the coward is now hiding in UAE..an absconder.... he played into the hands of enemies of Pakistan. Those drone strikes created a pool for recruits for all the terrorist organisation which were also funded, equipped, trained and supported by the same people (CIA)...thus we saw a series of drone strikes to create a never ending pool of recruits and then these terrorist organisations taking full advantage of that and wreaking havoc in Pakistan.. and then the same people bought media houses and so called human rights organisations and the libturds to bark against Muslims and Islam.. and this is called 4th gen warfare..but idiots cannot understand these evasive moves..

However there is no denying that there are madrassahs with extreme ideologies and links with terrorist organisations but you cannot deal with them like that. First of all, their funders must be tracked and marked, then their administration and curriculum be changed through the top management...peel them layer by layer until all the brainwashing has gone..and their insanity is cured. But if you fire bullets, you will get bullets in response...or may be suicide attack and this nation cannot tolerate that anymore.

 

[Mentee]

Blow them up with C4 along with anyone who protests against such action.
Execute all mullahs raising their voices against the state afterwards.
These bastards have done wboigh harms to the country and the religion of Islam.

@Doordie found another khan to be a member of our "cult"

bidat and shirk traditions which were prevalent before the deobandis started to teach

Have no idea about your but mine ancestors were still Muslim even before the dawn of the planet of the deo---

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Oscar this guy has just declared the majority Muslim Pak population mushrik and kafir. Plz admit him to a rehab prog asap . Otherwise its pretty much evident from his post that one day he might just leave tablewgh -------- and go for the easy solution to get rid of his miseries and to attain higher mukam in jannah by exploding his some coat or jacket in a masjid related to some mushrik or kafir folks

All madrassas should be run like we're runing darul uloom madrassa. It's a perfect example of how madrassas should be run .

70 miles / gallon is the ideal running speed -----

 

[Well.wisher]

@Doordie
70 miles / gallon is the ideal speed -----

:/

 

[CriticalThought]

The running and planning of Madresas should be left with the respective religious boards because they have a much better idea of religious education than any of us on the forum. In any case this whole reform business is inspired by American demands who are out to obliviate true Islam from our personal and communal lives.

 

[Prawnsroo]

How many pupils have enrolled in these madrasahs? Are these madrassahs big enough to be converted into federal schools? What are they teaching in these Madrassahs that cannot be taught by schools? What could be the repurcussions if these were to be shut down completely?
Everything linked with maulvis in Pak, seems off limit and an alien body, it is as if the government cannot excersize its authority when it comes to religious matters. For instance if tomorrow the PM would say that all mosques are being merged and only one mosque is allowed for one area/sector, what are the chances that people would be open minded about it and these maulvis won't cause havoc?

 

[I.R.A]

How many pupils have enrolled in these madrasahs? Are these madrassahs big enough to be converted into federal schools? What are they teaching in these Madrassahs that cannot be taught by schools? What could be the repurcussions if these were to be shut down completely?
Everything linked with maulvis in Pak, seems off limit and an alien body, it is as if the government cannot excersize its authority when it comes to religious matters. For instance if tomorrow the PM would say that all mosques are being merged and only one mosque is allowed for one area/sector, what are the chances that people would be open minded about it and these maulvis won't cause havoc?

Have you ever wondered how likes of Fazal Ur Rehman get elected each and every time? That is what's wrong with this madrassa business. I don't have anything against these madrassas in general but if I were to run this country and these madrassas wouldn't behave I won't show no mercy. These madrassas are an easy escape for people who breed in abundance. Balance in everything is key to being successful Muslims not just sitting on rears and waiting for miracle to happen.

 

[Khan_patriot]

I really don't know what is your definition of the "simple man"..but I think a lot of good hearted people in Pakistan fit my definition of 'simple people’ or simpletons who send their kids of madrassahs so their kids can learn about their religion -- Islam. Now if you are advocating killing all these kids...I see no difference between you and a petty terrorist in the street buddy..it is just you haven't got the means or balls to do what you have in your head. Just rewind the history a few years around 2005 or 2006 that when a single US drone strike killed around 85 INNOCENT under-teen-age kids which people like you may call them terrorists, and then the firoun of the time P. Musharraf claimed disgracefully as his doing and that was the start of all the mess the country has witnessed. He is responsible for this precarious situation and the coward is now hiding in UAE..an absconder.... he played into the hands of enemies of Pakistan. Those drone strikes created a pool for recruits for all the terrorist organisation which were also funded, equipped, trained and supported by the same people (CIA)...thus we saw a series of drone strikes to create a never ending pool of recruits and then these terrorist organisations taking full advantage of that and wreaking havoc in Pakistan.. and then the same people bought media houses and so called human rights organisations and the libturds to bark against Muslims and Islam.. and this is called 4th gen warfare..but idiots cannot understand these evasive moves..

However there is no denying that there are madrassahs with extreme ideologies and links with terrorist organisations but you cannot deal with them like that. First of all, their funders must be tracked and marked, then their administration and curriculum be changed through the top management...peel them layer by layer until all the brainwashing has gone..and their insanity is cured. But if you fire bullets, you will get bullets in response...or may be suicide attack and this nation cannot tolerate that anymore.

I have never advocated killing all mullahs or anyone one that has or is going to a madrassa but anyone who stands against the state deserves to be executed in the most exemplary of ways without fear of retaliation.
Over a decade of inaction in the face of blatant violence has not lead to peace, hast it?
It is exactly because of the terrorist and their apoligist like you that the nation stands paralysed, incapable of decisive action.
We need to bring the mullahs to the table declare our term, negotiate with the reasonable ones and take actions against the fanatics.
You talk about me not having balls to do anything but let me assure you I have done more than most and will continue to do so and refrain from personal attacks and if you don't agree with me either refute my opinion or ignore it.

@Doordie found another khan to be a member of our "cult"

What is this cult and how to I join it

 

[CriticalThought]

some believe that everyone is born muslim, going by that theory, yes, I'm also a muslimeen.

Yes everyone is born Muslim and is allocated their own piece in heaven, but then their environment turns them into Christian, Hindu etc. Hence, if someone fails the three questions asked after death: Who is your God? What is your religion? And a picture of Hazrat Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam is shown and the question is asked: What is your opinion regarding this person? If these questions are not answered correctly, a scene of their original portion of heaven is shown and they are told 'This is where you belonged originally' then a scene from Hell is shown where people are falling over each other and they are told: 'But now this is your destiny'. Upon hearing this the person cries out his wish that the Day of Judgement may never arrive. On the other hand, if someone passes the questions, the scenes are reversed and the person cries out his wish that the Day of Judgement should happen right now. May Allah guide us all in steadfastly following the right path.

Have you ever wondered how likes of Fazal Ur Rehman get elected each and every time? That is what's wrong with this madrassa business. I don't have anything against these madrassas in general but if I were to run this country and these madrassas wouldn't behave I won't show no mercy. These madrassas are an easy escape for people who breed in abundance. Balance in everything is key to being successful Muslims not just sitting on rears and waiting for miracle to happen.

There is nothing wrong with Maulana Fazl ur Rehman's education. You can find issues with his observance of the knowledge passed to him.