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Madrassa reforms - Suggestions

Yes you need to talk me on facebook your great thoughts show why Pakistan is going down. Sorry but that is true.
Hey i just want better education in Pakistan so our people can compete better and part of it is only teaching related subjects after intermediate

Pakistan is going down because people are not even willing to listen to opposite pov

Anywho i am an optimist with increasing literacy and increasing media penetration we will see a positive change inour society
 
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Since when thinking good for your country = traitors and slaves of west? this kind of extremist mindset has damaged our country enough already we need to get rid of it if we want to become a successful country what these madrassas are giving us except terrorists, extremists and embarrassment in front of the whole world?? they're nothing but terror factories and ENEMY OF ISLAM whaat? how?
why the hell is every liberal/secular pakistani trying to prove themselves to others????? they r different we r different.....we r islamic they r secular/non-uslims...they will definitely not like our islamic things such as religious teachings...who said madrassas are only giving terrorists? they give out pure good peple also now as this thread is focusing on how can we overcome the issues by many madrassas of links with foreign funds/terrorists and also sectarianists....but u r just dying to show the world that we pakistanis can also become as much liberal and beghairat as themm...whats the use of thi coubtry then when ur mind is ruled by the world...forgot the LeJ elements caught frequently in karachi university? why wasnt karachi university closed???? @Zarvan
 
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why the hell is every liberal/secular pakistani trying to prove themselves to others????? they r different we r different.....we r islamic they r secular/non-uslims...they will definitely not like our islamic things such as religious teachings...who said madrassas are only giving terrorists? they give out pure good peple also now as this thread is focusing on how can we overcome the issues by many madrassas of links with foreign funds/terrorists and also sectarianists....but u r just dying to show the world that we pakistanis can also become as much liberal and beghairat as themm...whats the use of thi coubtry then when ur mind is ruled by the world...forgot the LeJ elements caught frequently in karachi university? why wasnt karachi university closed???? @Zarvan
Those who did 9/11 were educated from USA universities by our liberal members logic those should be closed also
 
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Those who did 9/11 were educated from USA universities by our liberal members logic those should be closed also
yes right
our nation is unfortunately lickers of west and think themselves as thier rolemodels
 
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If we close madrassas Pakistan will continue to function as it is(maybe some poor people will no longer be able to educate their children in madrassas but thats it) but if you close schools and colleges the very structure of the state will be damaged madrassas dont churnout nuclear scientists or neuro surgeons

An overwhelmingly religious society doesn't only need nuclear scientists, mathematicians, physicians, chemist, biologist and doctors to work properly. Without proper knowledge of Shariah subjects extremism is bound to happen. Extremist behaviors whether liberal or religious originates from inadequate and improper knowledge of Shariah. We can't handover matters like Hadess, Tafseer, Fiqh, Sarf, Naho, Asool, Farooh and Ilm ul Kalam to Doctors or Engineers.

If you want to just dump those above mentioned subjects then our argument ends here.

Well, atleast we're not blowing ourselves up in schools, mosques & markets go figure.

Liberal extremist lack guts and proper motivation to do so.
 
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Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

The auspicious work of disseminating and acquiring Islamic knowledge in a dedicated place was started by the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Hence, Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alahi Wa Aalihi Wasallam was the first Mu'aallim (Teacher), the Sahabah (May Allah be Please with them) were the first Talib 'Ilm (Student), and Suffah was the first Madressah.

It is extremely enlightening to look at how Suffah was run. The Sahabah (May Allah be Please with them) who wanted to acquire 'Ilm (Knowledge) dedicated their lives to this task, to the exception of other activities such as earning a living. Their sustenance was provided by the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam himself. Whenever someone brought some Sadqa (Alms), the Ashaab-e-Suffah (Fellows of Suffah) were given a share from it.

At this point, some malignant elements raise an objection that (Ma'aaaz Allah) the times of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam were different because Islam was in its infancy and such sacrifices were necessary. The fact of the matter is, we have been told very clearly what things are peculiar to the times of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. For example, Hazrat Ali (May Allah be Pleased with him) was forbidden to adopt the Kunniyyat of 'Abu Qasim' during the life of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam.

Since certain Companions (May Allah be Pleased with them) put such special effort in the acquisition of Islamic knowledge, the concept of specialized scholars was present even in the times of Hazrat Umar (May Allah be Pleased with him).

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From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Abdullaah bin Abbaas May Allah be Pleased with him narrates that it was at Jaabiya that Hadhrat Umar May Allah be Pleased with him delivered a sermon to the people saying, "Whoever has any queries about the Qur'aan should go to Ubay bin Ka'b May Allah be Pleased with him, whoever has any queries about inheritance should go to Zaid bin Thaabit May Allah be Pleased with him whoever has any queries about Fiqh should go to Mu'aadh bin Jabal May Allah be Pleased with him and whoever requires money should come to me because Allah has given me authority over it and entrusted me with its distribution."

Tabraani in his Awsat. Haythami (Vol.1 Pg.135) has commented on the chain of narrators.
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Thus, the instutions of Madressah and Scholars, and the practice of seeking knowledge from them is proven and prescribed by the Sharia itself.

Some Mulhid, Zindeeq and irreligious types of people openly state that (Ma'aaaz Allah) Islamic knowledge imparted by Madressahs is superfluous and that the resulting scholars are a burden upon society and useless in earning money. Let us turn to the guidance from our Beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam

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From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Anas May Allah be Pleased with him reports that during the time of Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam there were two brothers, one of whom worked while the other was always with Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam to learn from him (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam). When the working brother complained about his brother to Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam (that he did not work), Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam said to him, "It is perhaps because of him that you are granted sustenance."

Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jam'ul Fawaa'id (Vol.1 Pg.20). Ibn Abdul Birr has reported a similar narration in his Jaami Bayaanil Ilm (Vol.1 Pg.59), as has Haakim in his Mustadrak (Vo1.l Pg.94), reporting from reliable sources as confirmed by Dhahabi.
------------------

At this point, malignant people point out that 'knowledge' in these times is actually scientific knowledge and (Ma'aaaz Allah) religous knowledge is unnecessary. Alhamdullillah, our Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam has given us such comprehensive guidance, that these subversive elements cannot misguide Muslims however much they try.

------------------
From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Abdullaah bin Amr May Allah be Pleased with him reports that Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam said, "Knowledge is of three types; explicit verses of the Qur'aan, concrete Ahadeeth (with authenticity that is beyond doubt) and injunctions of the same standing (Ijmaa [Consensus of authorities in lslaamic jurisprudence.] and Qiyaas [The sound Sharee analytical deduction of accepted Muslim jurists.] that is beyond doubt). Everything apart from this is extra (it is not compulsory to learn)."

Abu Dawood and Ibn Maajah, as quoted in Mishkaatul Masaabeeh (Pg.27). Ibn Abdul Birr has reported a similar narration in his Jaami (Vol.2 Pg.23).
------------------

The auspicious institutions of Madressah and Scholars have continued since the time of our Beloved Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Classically, students have travelled to well known scholars whose sole job was teaching of Islamic knowledge. Their sustenance was taken care of through Alms given by people. The Madressahs that stand today in Pakistan are Alhamdulillah the continuation of this auspicious tradition.

At this point, we should address a commonly raised question. What benefit do religious scholars provide in modern life? Unfortunately, this question is asked by exactly those who are immersed so much in 'modern life' that the details of pious life escape them. Anyone who prays five times a day can attest to the fact that a lot of questions arise, ranging from direction of Qiblah, to the place where prayers can be performed, and so on and so forth. And as every practicing Muslim well knows, common people cannot always remember all the rules that must be followed when performing various religious duties. It is our religious scholars, who safeguard every minute detail of these rules, and keep reminding us so they remain fresh in our minds.

But more than that, Islamic rules encompass every walk of life. In the times of Hazrat Umar (May Allah be Pleased with him), people were forbidden from trading in markets until they could prove they had acquired the religious knowledge of correct trading. How can we achieve this ideal without religious scholars safeguarding this knowledge?

A common misconception is present amongst people that religious knowledge is simple to acquire and simple, innocent Muslims need not be burdened with any complexities. Nothing can be further from the truth. The basis of our religion lie in Quran and Hadith which are originally quoted in Arabic. Remember that words become more unclear as you move away in both time and space from the original source. Hence, there is a rigid set of rules that when applied to the words of the Holy Quran and Hadith, imparts the correct meanings to them. A large part of contemporary religious scholarship comprises the painstaking study of these rules over a number of years. This is combined with knowledge of the life of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam, and the knowledge of the correct interpretation of the Holy Quran. This knowledge is amassed over a number of years, after which a person is trusted with studying the knowledge of Ahadith. It takes eight years for people to acquire this body of knowledge, after which they are given the title of 'Aalim, that is scholar. Such people are authorized to explain the rules of Islamic worhship, such as the rules regarding prayers, zakaat etc. They are still not authorized to perform jurisprudence, make an independent interpretation of the Holy Quran, or pass judgement on the validity of Ahadith. It takes a further 2 years of study to gain the status of 'Mufti' in each of these areas. So, if someone wanted excellence in all three areas, they would need to spend a total of 6 years after spending 8 years. On top of this, the Asaatiza-e-Kiraam (Teachers) make painstaking efforts to inculcate piety, God fearliness, Taqwa, and goodness in these students.

The fact of the matter is that we have various types of irreligious mulhideen, and zindeeq people who blatantly pose themselves as true Muslims and try to claim the mantle of Islam to themselves. I exhort my fellow Muslims to be aware of the machinations of these malignant, subversive elements. They need to be called out, singled out, and expunged so that they do not tarnish the true nature of Islam as revealed by Allah the Almighty to His Last Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. May Allah give all of us Guidance and Steadfastness towards the Right Path. Aaameeen.
 
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Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

The auspicious work of disseminating and acquiring Islamic knowledge in a dedicated place was started by the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Hence, Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alahi Wa Aalihi Wasallam was the first Mu'aallim (Teacher), the Sahabah (May Allah be Please with them) were the first Talib 'Ilm (Student), and Suffah was the first Madressah.

It is extremely enlightening to look at how Suffah was run. The Sahabah (May Allah be Please with them) who wanted to acquire 'Ilm (Knowledge) dedicated their lives to this task, to the exception of other activities such as earning a living. Their sustenance was provided by the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam himself. Whenever someone brought some Sadqa (Alms), the Ashaab-e-Suffah (Fellows of Suffah) were given a share from it.

At this point, some malignant elements raise an objection that (Ma'aaaz Allah) the times of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam were different because Islam was in its infancy and such sacrifices were necessary. The fact of the matter is, we have been told very clearly what things are peculiar to the times of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. For example, Hazrat Ali (May Allah be Pleased with him) was forbidden to adopt the Kunniyyat of 'Abu Qasim' during the life of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam.

Since certain Companions (May Allah be Pleased with them) put such special effort in the acquisition of Islamic knowledge, the concept of specialized scholars was present even in the times of Hazrat Umar (May Allah be Pleased with him).

------------------
From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Abdullaah bin Abbaas May Allah be Pleased with him narrates that it was at Jaabiya that Hadhrat Umar May Allah be Pleased with him delivered a sermon to the people saying, "Whoever has any queries about the Qur'aan should go to Ubay bin Ka'b May Allah be Pleased with him, whoever has any queries about inheritance should go to Zaid bin Thaabit May Allah be Pleased with him whoever has any queries about Fiqh should go to Mu'aadh bin Jabal May Allah be Pleased with him and whoever requires money should come to me because Allah has given me authority over it and entrusted me with its distribution."

Tabraani in his Awsat. Haythami (Vol.1 Pg.135) has commented on the chain of narrators.
------------------

Thus, the instutions of Madressah and Scholars, and the practice of seeking knowledge from them is proven and prescribed by the Sharia itself.

Some Mulhid, Zindeeq and irreligious types of people openly state that (Ma'aaaz Allah) Islamic knowledge imparted by Madressahs is superfluous and that the resulting scholars are a burden upon society and useless in earning money. Let us turn to the guidance from our Beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam

------------------
From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Anas May Allah be Pleased with him reports that during the time of Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam there were two brothers, one of whom worked while the other was always with Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam to learn from him (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam). When the working brother complained about his brother to Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam (that he did not work), Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam said to him, "It is perhaps because of him that you are granted sustenance."

Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jam'ul Fawaa'id (Vol.1 Pg.20). Ibn Abdul Birr has reported a similar narration in his Jaami Bayaanil Ilm (Vol.1 Pg.59), as has Haakim in his Mustadrak (Vo1.l Pg.94), reporting from reliable sources as confirmed by Dhahabi.
------------------

At this point, malignant people point out that 'knowledge' in these times is actually scientific knowledge and (Ma'aaaz Allah) religous knowledge is unnecessary. Alhamdullillah, our Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam has given us such comprehensive guidance, that these subversive elements cannot misguide Muslims however much they try.

------------------
From Hayaatus Sahabah Vol 3

Hadhrat Abdullaah bin Amr May Allah be Pleased with him reports that Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam said, "Knowledge is of three types; explicit verses of the Qur'aan, concrete Ahadeeth (with authenticity that is beyond doubt) and injunctions of the same standing (Ijmaa [Consensus of authorities in lslaamic jurisprudence.] and Qiyaas [The sound Sharee analytical deduction of accepted Muslim jurists.] that is beyond doubt). Everything apart from this is extra (it is not compulsory to learn)."

Abu Dawood and Ibn Maajah, as quoted in Mishkaatul Masaabeeh (Pg.27). Ibn Abdul Birr has reported a similar narration in his Jaami (Vol.2 Pg.23).
------------------

The auspicious institutions of Madressah and Scholars have continued since the time of our Beloved Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Classically, students have travelled to well known scholars whose sole job was teaching of Islamic knowledge. Their sustenance was taken care of through Alms given by people. The Madressahs that stand today in Pakistan are Alhamdulillah the continuation of this auspicious tradition.

At this point, we should address a commonly raised question. What benefit do religious scholars provide in modern life? Unfortunately, this question is asked by exactly those who are immersed so much in 'modern life' that the details of pious life escape them. Anyone who prays five times a day can attest to the fact that a lot of questions arise, ranging from direction of Qiblah, to the place where prayers can be performed, and so on and so forth. And as every practicing Muslim well knows, common people cannot always remember all the rules that must be followed when performing various religious duties. It is our religious scholars, who safeguard every minute detail of these rules, and keep reminding us so they remain fresh in our minds.

But more than that, Islamic rules encompass every walk of life. In the times of Hazrat Umar (May Allah be Pleased with him), people were forbidden from trading in markets until they could prove they had acquired the religious knowledge of correct trading. How can we achieve this ideal without religious scholars safeguarding this knowledge?

A common misconception is present amongst people that religious knowledge is simple to acquire and simple, innocent Muslims need not be burdened with any complexities. Nothing can be further from the truth. The basis of our religion lie in Quran and Hadith which are originally quoted in Arabic. Remember that words become more unclear as you move away in both time and space from the original source. Hence, there is a rigid set of rules that when applied to the words of the Holy Quran and Hadith, imparts the correct meanings to them. A large part of contemporary religious scholarship comprises the painstaking study of these rules over a number of years. This is combined with knowledge of the life of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam, and the knowledge of the correct interpretation of the Holy Quran. This knowledge is amassed over a number of years, after which a person is trusted with studying the knowledge of Ahadith. It takes eight years for people to acquire this body of knowledge, after which they are given the title of 'Aalim, that is scholar. Such people are authorized to explain the rules of Islamic worhship, such as the rules regarding prayers, zakaat etc. They are still not authorized to perform jurisprudence, make an independent interpretation of the Holy Quran, or pass judgement on the validity of Ahadith. It takes a further 2 years of study to gain the status of 'Mufti' in each of these areas. So, if someone wanted excellence in all three areas, they would need to spend a total of 6 years after spending 8 years. On top of this, the Asaatiza-e-Kiraam (Teachers) make painstaking efforts to inculcate piety, God fearliness, Taqwa, and goodness in these students.

The fact of the matter is that we have various types of irreligious mulhideen, and zindeeq people who blatantly pose themselves as true Muslims and try to claim the mantle of Islam to themselves. I exhort my fellow Muslims to be aware of the machinations of these malignant, subversive elements. They need to be called out, singled out, and expunged so that they do not tarnish the true nature of Islam as revealed by Allah the Almighty to His Last Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. May Allah give all of us Guidance and Steadfastness towards the Right Path. Aaameeen.
may Allah bless u with best sir
 
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No matter how much one try but few people just won't change their extremist mentality they're never ready to accept other people's POV and will start using derogatory terms irony is that these people call themselves Muslims and "defenders" of Islam and Quran (Nauzbillah) i thought our religion tells us to stay calm and always behave when you're talking to someone oh but these things don't apply to defenders of Islam. These people will keep repeating the same arguments again and again like a parrot but won't give any logical answer and when they run out of that too they will show their madrassa education that is derogatory language, calling everyone licker of west dogs and don't know what and of course conspiracy theories.

As our beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has said: "Most of your sins are because of your tongues."

Hopefully this will be my last reply in this thread.
 
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Excuse me, how are others being abused by Muslims? Can you be a bit more specific please?
I consider these to be profoundly insensitive questions. Why have you not looked at how non-Muslims are treated by Muslims to see for yourself?

...A common misconception is present amongst people that religious knowledge is simple to acquire and simple, innocent Muslims need not be burdened with any complexities. Nothing can be further from the truth...
Well, since not everyone can be clever or educated or dedicated enough, why isn't it better to follow simpler secular laws and governance that experience shows everyone can get along with?
 
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We don't need a bunch of reforms. Pakistan needs one serious Medrese reform: take back control is the dictate of the moment. All medresses and mosques must be controlled by the Pakistani state without one single exception. That's all you need for the beginning.

Controlling medresses -> controlling the minds of millions of children --> Pakistan's future citizens with a right to vote.
 
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Practising is something separate. But Islamiyat and other Islamic subjects would be made compulsory in schools and university level. And students will have to pass them with good grades to get a degree. If these changes are made in schools by adding Arabic and Tafseer and Hadees and adding more course in Islamiyat subject in fact lot more course only than Government should ask Madrassas to change.
How can details and facts ever make up for lack of spirit? Pakistanis don't fear God. Not all the learning in all the schools can make up for that. Indeed, it has only made lives worse, right?
 
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I consider these to be profoundly insensitive questions. Why have you not looked at how non-Muslims are treated by Muslims to see for yourself?

And I consider your persistent nudging to elicit your preferred response from myself to be highly annoying. You will not elicit the response you want from me. Unlike you, I do not have tunnel vision when I look at the state of things. I have in front of me, the situation of the world as a whole, its history past and present, and the overall machinations of the West against us. You come to our countries crying over treatment of minorities, whereas in your own countries you systematically bully Muslims, all the time singing songs of liberty and equality. Liberty and equality in the West today means marginalizing women wearing the full Islamic Niqab. It means treating Palestinians worse than animals. The list goes on and on. I don't want to derail this thread, so if you really want to discuss the treatment of minorities please start another one in the appropriate section.

Well, since not everyone can be clever or educated or dedicated enough, why isn't it better to follow simpler secular laws and governance that experience shows everyone can get along with?

You mean all enemies of Allah the Almighty get along with. We face difficulties in this world so that we can be the recipients of the Mercy of Allah in this life and the life hereafter. And once someone decides to do something purely for the sake of Allah the Almighty, He makes it easy for him. Remember, things aren't easy or difficult per se. It is the Command of Allah which makes something easy or difficult. This is actually the hidden lesson in the story of Abraham (Peace be upon him) when he was put into the fire. The nature of the fire itself didn't change. The fire retained its full capacity to burn. But by the Command of Allah the Almighty, the capacity of the fire to burn Abraham (Peace be upon him) got changed and it became harmless for him.

Finally, since not everyone can be clever, that is why we are taught to always consult with religious scholars in all matters of life to make sure we are following the Commands of Allah the Almighty and the Sunnahs of His Last Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam.

May Allah Guide us all towards the Right Path. Aaameen.
 
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...Unlike you, I do not have tunnel vision when I look at the state of things. I have in front of me, the situation of the world as a whole, its history past and present, and the overall machinations of the West against us -
Don't you think you should re-read what you just wrote? Really. And once you've realized your goof, what is the appropriate response from a scholar and a gentleman?

You mean all enemies of Allah the Almighty get along with -
No, I was just talking about ordinary people. People who either aren't gifted with the smarts to learn all you say is needed to rule themselves according to Islam yet still want to rule their own lives, rather than submit their everyday choices to the will of other men, even if they are gifted "religious scholars".

@CriticalThought , you can of course continue to ignore me or deflect me but what good can come of it? It is the act of a tyrant not to answer petitions and instead rely on force to subdue others. People will rebel against such arrogance and obtuseness. You'll have no moral voice. Then what you hold Allah and Islam really means will be entirely obscured and forgotten, right?
 
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An overwhelmingly religious society doesn't only need nuclear scientists, mathematicians, physicians, chemist, biologist and doctors to work properly. Without proper knowledge of Shariah subjects extremism is bound to happen. Extremist behaviors whether liberal or religious originates from inadequate and improper knowledge of Shariah. We can't handover matters like Hadess, Tafseer, Fiqh, Sarf, Naho, Asool, Farooh and Ilm ul Kalam to Doctors or Engineers.

If you want to just dump those above mentioned subjects then our argument ends here.



Liberal extremist lack guts and proper motivation to do so.
Oh yeah lets throw away all the tanks and jets we have and go back to swords and horses
Lets burn cars and go back to camels and mules as for of transport

Scandanavian countries dont have proper knowledge of Sharia why are they not extremist and going on a rampage?

We need doctors for state to function properly cant say same about scholars

Nope liberal extremists have too much humanity in them to blow things up

Those who did 9/11 were educated from USA universities by our liberal members logic those should be closed also
Data darbar,moon market,karbala gmey shah,meena bazar,danish embassy,Pindi imam bargah from which university did they complete their education from ?
 
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