M109-52 SPH

[Georg]

Well, I am a train tanker, trained with both M1 Abrams and M2 Bradley and I rode in combat in the latter.

If you think I have zero clue about artillery, then most likely you never saw shit in combat.

Most log pack require you to rendezvous with your log train on either MSR or ASR. You can try to crave an emergency LZ to receive log train from chopper, but this is usually flown upon, ESPECIALLY so when you don't have infantry support, which most western armor usually goes.

Artillery system, especially for tracked platform, is to attached to us and go where we go and provide supporting fire, I don't know in what way or how or in which universe you will try to single up a 40 tons tracked SPG and do shoot and scoop without Armor support, I can't speak for all of NATO, but no one in the US Army will use M109 single up and do shoot and scoop.

But hey, you think what you want to think.

btw just for you

Archer
34to
325hp
70km/h road

KARB
48to
1000hp
67km/h

K9
49to
1000hp
67km/h

2S19
42to
840hp
60km/h

PzH2000
55to
1000hp
67km/h


how exactly does a top of the line Archer wheeled Arty with a 3km/h higer road top speed outrun the other?
Not taking into account the moment they left the road Archer is left hopless behind

 

[jhungary]

useing the slow *** M109 for shoot and scoop made my day....
The time it takes for a M109 to setup and start its fire mission Arty systems like Karb, Pzh2000 or K9 already leaving the position after 5 shells delivered... so you think you are the only tanker on this forum... sorry to say that you are not Leo2 4./33 here... looks like your Army should put more effort into training and eductaion

lol Pzh2000 can fire 5 shot before you landed at target before M109 deployed??I know for a personal fact that this is FALSE.

Dude. This is not war thunder or world of tank (Which is what I suspected your "Knowledge" is from). This is not on paper 10 rounds per minute, and you will get 10 rounds in 1 minute. You won't have the same elevation and traverses and you keep the dial unchanged. And then the barrel overheating issue is going to eat you alive.

The best artillery crew I had EVER seen can shoot 4 out on target in 1 minute, taking that aside you need to redeploy the gun (at least for elevation) and that is if you had not stopped the engine in the first place, some artillery crew stop their engine because of diesel fume build up and it could catch fire with cordite or any powder charge you may have inside, it would be lucky if you can get 2 shot out in a minute.

Yes, and you think Pzh2000 can bring 5 on target before it needs to move. And you claim to serve on Leo2...

And talk about education it's spell E.D.U.C.A.T.I.O.N. Not however you spell it, maybe you should get some before you ask people to get some.

And the rest of your post is.........well, let's just say I probably get dumber by just reading what you wrote. So I am gonna pretend you wrote nothing.

If you have more technical detail (I doubt you have) other than "Uber machine Pzh2000 can shot 5 out with the time your M109 set up" I am all ears, otherwise I don't do crazy and made belief.

btw just for you

Archer
34to
325hp
70km/h road

KARB
48to
1000hp
67km/h

K9
49to
1000hp
67km/h

2S19
42to
840hp
60km/h

PzH2000
55to
1000hp
67km/h


how exactly does a top of the line Archer wheeled Arty with a 3km/h higer road top speed outrun the other?
Not taking into account the moment they left the road Archer is left hopless behind

lol, again, it may mater if you are playing war thunder. Out there in real world? These number mean shit.

 

[gambit]

lol Pzh2000 can fire 5 shot before you landed at target before M109 deployed??I know for a personal fact that this is FALSE.

Dude. This is not war thunder or world of tank (Which is what I suspected your "Knowledge" is from). This is not on paper 10 rounds per minute, and you will get 10 rounds in 1 minute. You won't have the same elevation and traverses and you keep the dial unchanged. And then the barrel overheating issue is going to eat you alive.

The best artillery crew I had EVER seen can shot 4 out on target in 1 minute, taking that aside you need to redeploy the gun (at least for elevation) and that is if you had not stopped the engine in the first place, some artillery crew stop their engine because of diesel fume build up and it could caught fire with cordite or any powder charge you may have inside, it would be lucky if you can get 2 shot out in a minute.

Yes, and you think Pzh2000 can bring 5 on target before it needs to move. And you claim to serve on Leo2...

And talk about education it's spell E.D.U.C.A.T.I.O.N. Not however you spell it, maybe you should get some before you ask people to get some.

And the rest of your post is.........well, let's just say I probably get dumber by just reading what you wrote. So I am gonna pretend you wrote nothing.

If you have more technical detail (I doubt you have) other than "Uber machine Pzh2000 can shot 5 out with the time your M109 set up" I am all ears, otherwise I don't do crazy and made belief.


lol, again, it may mater if you are playing war thunder. Out there in real world? These number mean shit.

Honest question here...I do not play games, not even Pong. I run a Linux PC that I built myself, so not much games for Linux.

Anyway...On these computer military games, are there multi-players games where there must be a crew to virtually 'operate' a tank? Or can one person 'operate' a tank against another player? Maybe that is why he thinks it is easy to operate a real tank.

 

[PakFactor]

Honest question here...I do not play games, not even Pong. I run a Linux PC that I built myself, so not much games for Linux.

Anyway...On these computer military games, are there multi-players games where there must be a crew to virtually 'operate' a tank? Or can one person 'operate' a tank against another player? Maybe that is why he thinks it is easy to operate a real tank.

In all war games, one man operates the tank; you move it with the joystick and pressing fire. I never seen a game where you operate as a crew.

 

[jhungary]

Honest question here...I do not play games, not even Pong. I run a Linux PC that I built myself, so not much games for Linux.

Anyway...On these computer military games, are there multi-players games where there must be a crew to virtually 'operate' a tank? Or can one person 'operate' a tank against another player? Maybe that is why he thinks it is easy to operate a real tank.

No, none of the game out there even touch on crew, most of these games out there are point and shoot, some games give you different role such as driver, gunner and loader, but they are just that, you have a very rudimentary gunsight or commander periscope, and you do your business there.

There was this old game called M1 Abrams simulator (or something like that) that come pretty close but still it's point ad interact. I don't think anyone can drive or shoot a tank from only what they learn from games.

 

[Oldman1]

I heard that PzH 2000 was having some problems with too much wear & tear in Ukraine. That's something that may have to be improved. So I understand why the americans might want to stick with something battle proven. But it's just too old and, too limited at this point just let it die.


I'm very happy with what we have, Turkish T-155s were heavily used in conflicts in Iraq and Syria and they always prefromed great.

View attachment 964354

The M109 may be old, but not limited since you saw them testing the guns from 52 cal up to 58 cal and able to shoot it along with new rounds. Its been constantly upgraded and they put a new turret to test an auto reloader. I think that is a better and cheaper alternative then having to restart a new vehicle program. Kind of like a new destroyer replacement for the Arleigh Burke.

 

[LegionnairE]

The M109 may be old, but not limited since you saw them testing the guns from 52 cal up to 58 cal and able to shoot it along with new rounds. Its been constantly upgraded and they put a new turret to test an auto reloader. I think that is a better and cheaper alternative then having to restart a new vehicle program. Kind of like a new destroyer replacement for the Arleigh Burke.

If it's all upgraded like you said, what's the point of keeping the same tracks, same chassis, the same turret?

Turkey still uses M52T and M110, at the end of the day a cannon is a cannon, but if you're spending all that money upgrading everything why not go that last bit of distance get a new platform?


You know a PzH 2000 will outpreform this thing no matter how much you upgrade the internals and you know the US logistic system is perfectly capable of hauling around a 60-70 ton SPG.

M52T for those who might not know.
(We upgraded these before switching to T-155 platform and we haven't touched them ever since, they just stick around in reserves)

 

[Signalian]

There was this old game called M1 Abrams simulator (or something like that) that come pretty close but still it's point ad interact. I don't think anyone can drive or shoot a tank from only what they learn from games.

AFP doesn't operate Abrams, but a few types of Ute's and SUVs.

 

[jhungary]

AFP doesn't operate Abrams, but a few types of Ute's and SUVs.

?? I was talking about an old game, not AFP....Or am I missing a reference here??

 

[Oldman1]

If it's all upgraded like you said, what's the point of keeping the same tracks, same chassis, the same turret?

Turkey still uses M52T and M110, at the end of the day a cannon is a cannon, but if you're spending all that money upgrading everything why not go that last bit of distance get a new platform?


You know a PzH 2000 will outpreform this thing no matter how much you upgrade the internals and you know the US logistic system is perfectly capable of hauling around a 60-70 ton SPG.

M52T for those who might not know.
(We upgraded these before switching to T-155 platform and we haven't touched them ever since, they just stick around in reserves)

Not all are upgraded (even though it has been upgraded many times) and some don't need to be upgraded like tracks or chassis. They tested a new turret along with autoloader. Shows that it can be constantly upgraded and perform just as good or even better than the Pzh 2000 especially with its longer gun on the M1299.

 

[LegionnairE]

Not all are upgraded (even though it has been upgraded many times) and some don't need to be upgraded like tracks or chassis. They tested a new turret along with autoloader. Shows that it can be constantly upgraded and perform just as good or even better than the Pzh 2000 especially with its longer gun on the M1299.

I'm pressing X to doubt

 

[Oldman1]

I'm pressing X to doubt

Its ok to doubt. New turret with autoloader. Whether they decide to use it or not that's on them. If they implement it, it can be better than the Pzh2000. Especially with the ammo and longer barrel.

 

[LegionnairE]

Its ok to doubt. New turret with autoloader. Whether they decide to use it or not that's on them. If they implement it, it can be better than the Pzh2000. Especially with the ammo and longer barrel.

Why would you want to put EVERYTHING inside the turret I don't know, it certainly looks interesting and one advantage I can think of is you can easily remove the turret and put it on a more capable chassis lol.

This will certainly rule out an ammo replenishment vehicle like the K10

 

[Oldman1]

Why would you want to put EVERYTHING inside the turret I don't know, it certainly looks interesting and one advantage I can think of is you can easily remove the turret and put it on a more capable chassis lol.

This will certainly rule out an ammo replenishment vehicle like the K10

Nothing wrong with putting everything in the turret. Its very roomy. Nothing wrong with that chassis.

M109 howitzer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

M109A6 "Paladin"​

The Paladin model has improvements in the areas of survivability, RAM, and armament. This includes increased armor, a redesigned internal arrangement for safer ammunition and equipment storage, engine and suspension upgrades, and improvement of the M284 Cannon and M182A1 Mount. The greatest difference is the integration of an inertial navigation system, sensors detecting the weapons' lay, automation, and an encrypted digital communication system, which utilizes computer controlled frequency-hopping to avoid enemy electronic warfare and allow the howitzer to send grid location and altitude to the battery Fire Direction Center (FDC).

M109A7​

The newest M109 version for U.S. service is the M109A7, formerly known as the M109A6 Paladin Integrated Management (PIM). The M109A7 shares common chassis components with the Bradley Fighting Vehicle (BFV) such as the engine, transmission, and tracks. This creates commonality with other systems and maximizes cost savings in production, parts inventory, and maintenance personnel. The M109A7's onboard power systems harness technologies originally developed for the XM1203 Non-Line-of-Sight Cannon.[47]

The electric drive is faster than the previous hydraulic system, and the automatic rammer more consistently rams the round into the gun for consistent velocities and better accuracy. It features a 600-volt onboard power system to accommodate additional armor and future networking technologies as they become ready. The M109A7 can sustain a one-round per-minute rate of fire and a maximum rate of fire of four rounds per minute.[47] Weighing 78,000 lb (35,000 kg), the M109A7 is 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) heavier than its predecessor, and it has the capacity to grow to 110,000 lb (50,000 kg). Even with the weight increase, the M109A7 can travel faster than previous versions at 38 mph (61 km/h) and is more maneuverable than a BFV.[48]

 

[LegionnairE]

Nothing wrong with putting everything in the turret.

What's the benefit?