Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman briefing on F-16IN Super Viper AESA radar

[arun]

I wouldn't go for the F-16IN's

I don't think india will go for the f-16's...

Are the reasons for that technical or geo-political?

 

[syntax_error]

Are the reasons for that technical or geo-political?

Both .... id Say...
Geop-political
US has bad history of letting down at crucial junctures (sanctions)
Technical
Old Design and the neighbouring country have been flying this bird for like ages .. so they are better at it ...(it takes atleast 5-10 yrs to master a bird )

 

[graphican]

Nowadays India being offered by high end technology by USA with out strict end user restrictions. Is any inside game in it.

USA wants India to be under its control (to what ever degree possible) at first for it being big and major role player in the South Asia, second, take benefit if its emerging economy and collect the money that would otherwise go somewhere else most probably to Russia which USA wouldn't like. 3rd, it wants to empower India against China so that China would have localized threats to counter and would be less focussed about USA and the West. 4th, India had potential to be US Ally in Afghanistan against Taliban but I think this "potential" has been compromised already as India failed to grasp any mentionable role after Pakistan refused to let that happen. So major aspects of US-India are still 3. USA is coming to India because it is looking benefit for itself and as a "by product", India is gaining benefits of it.

Keeping the International scenario aside, Yankees are mean, idiotic and arrogant people. They are not even friend to themselves, let alone be Israel, India or anybody else. So watch your back when you are with them.

Gen Ayub had once said "It is dangerous to be American enemy, but it is deadly to be their friend".

 

[graphican]

I don't think india will go for the f-16's...

If India compares cost/benefits of going for F-16, they are "huge" but yes I agree with you, India would prefer to have something which we don't have... and likewise, they wouldn't let anything come our way which they possess. Just that.

 

[Desertfalcon]

I know about the reasons for it. If India aspires to a great power status, then a blue water navy is a must. We need to keep our vital shipping lanes safe and also safeguard our critical oil supplies, most of which comes via ships. I was just making an observation

I think you are quite right in this. Although my country may have an interest in countering China at some level, I think in general that America is simply acknowledging that the Indian navy is the dominate blue water force in the region.

An earlier poster commented that the US wants to "control" India. Fiddlesticks! India has not been controlled by anyone since the British left and I doubt she would be up for that from us.

 

[holysaturn]

USA wants India to be under its control (to what ever degree possible) at first for it being big and major role player in the South Asia, second, take benefit if its emerging economy and collect the money that would otherwise go somewhere else most probably to Russia which USA wouldn't like. 3rd, it wants to empower India against China so that China would have localized threats to counter and would be less focussed about USA and the West. 4th, India had potential to be US Ally in Afghanistan against Taliban but I think this "potential" has been compromised already as India failed to grasp any mentionable role after Pakistan refused to let that happen. So major aspects of US-India are still 3. USA is coming to India because it is looking benefit for itself and as a "by product", India is gaining benefits of it.

Keeping the International scenario aside, Yankees are mean, idiotic and arrogant people. They are not even friend to themselves, let alone be Israel, India or anybody else. So watch your back when you are with them.

Gen Ayub had once said "It is dangerous to be American enemy, but it is deadly to be their friend".

i dont agree pal.......the basic aim of the TOT is to be independant of the manufacturer and also to ensure that the next line of products r made in house....if the us prefers to control india it wud sell high end fighters at very low costs w/o TOT,bcoz very low prices and high technology can fetch u the deal even with low TOT.

 

[intelarpit]

USA wants India to be under its control (to what ever degree possible) at first for it being big and major role player in the South Asia

USA wants every country to be under its control but does that matter at all?? What matters is....will India let her do so??

second, take benefit if its emerging economy and collect the money that would otherwise go somewhere else most probably to Russia which USA wouldn't like.

I really dont think that $10bn is that huge??

3rd, it wants to empower India against China so that China would have localized threats to counter and would be less focussed about USA and the West.

Not at all possible in the present economic scenario where USA economy itself depends upon the Chinese.

4th, India had potential to be US Ally in Afghanistan against Taliban but I think this "potential" has been compromised already as India failed to grasp any mentionable role after Pakistan refused to let that happen.

Pakistan refused to happen??

Keeping the International scenario aside, Yankees are mean, idiotic and arrogant people. They are not even friend to themselves, let alone be Israel, India or anybody else. So watch your back when you are with them.

We have learnt good examples of US friendship from our neighbors so dont worry about India

BTW your comments on US people were uncalled

 

[gowthamraj]

I think you are quite right in this. Although my country may have an interest in countering China at some level, I think in general that America is simply acknowledging that the Indian navy is the dominate blue water force in the region.

An earlier poster commented that the US wants to "control" India. Fiddlesticks! India has not been controlled by anyone since the British left and I doubt she would be up for that from us.

true words, 100 percent agree.

 

[KS]

We should not got for this bird for 4 reasons :

1)The backstabbing nature of the Americans and their tendency to impose sanctions wenever the going is not in their favour.

2)There is no geo-political advantage in it..Meaning by awarding this contract to them we cannot stop any arms export to pakistan.
That will continue as it is now.

3)This is an aged platform although not technologically but nevertheless
still old wen compared to other planes with the exception of Mig-35

4) Our rivals have been flying this for abt 3 decades and know it like the back of their hand.Go for something that they will not get in the near future.

For all the above mentioned reasons the logical choice of the GOI should be EFT,Rafale or Gripen

But since Gripen again is single engines and we the LCA MkI ready in the role and the MkII planned there is no sense in going for it.

So the left out is EFT or Rafale..now comparing cost wise and geo-political advantage wise the only logical choice left is RAFALE

So GOI please buy this bird.......

 

[hal-fgfa]

^^^ Karthic sir whats the problem with mig 35 ????

 

[gogbot]

^^^ Karthic sir whats the problem with mig 35 ????

First , of just like the F-16 it is an aged platform.

Second and most important ,we wont receive a single Mig-35 , till 2014.
This will obviously lead to more delays.

frankly , i believe Mig-35 , Grihpen and F-16 are in the trials until now becuase , only so that it will encourage more competition.
The aircraft's themselves can be gauged and put through their paces.
The aircraft can also act as performance benchmarks for the trials.

The winner will most definitely be European. Dassualt , Saab and Euro fighter have made some above and beyond offers to get this tender.

Given Boeing's ambitions in India , i think they too may have a chance if you consider the larger picture.

 

[KS]

First , of just like the F-16 it is an aged platform.

Second and most important ,we wont receive a single Mig-35 , till 2014.
This will obviously lead to more delays.

frankly , i believe Mig-35 , Grihpen and F-16 are in the trials until now becuase , only so that it will encourage more competition.
The aircraft's themselves can be gauged and put through their paces.
The aircraft can also act as performance benchmarks for the trials.

The winner will most definitely be European. Dassualt , Saab and Euro fighter have made some above and beyond offers to get this tender.

Given Boeing's ambitions in India , i think they too may have a chance if you consider the larger picture.

@HAL_FGFA

adding to wat gogbot said:

The main aim of this MMRCA tender is to diversify our inventory(u may argue if is a right step) from the Russian planes. and get our hands on the latest Western Tech.
And almost all the technology used in the Mig-35 is already/can be obtained for the MKI and PAKFA and there is no use in redundantly going for the same in Mig-35.
Moreover wat we need is a medium range omni-role fighter wich the Mig-35 only satisfies partly cos of its relative heavy weight and relative limited strike capability.

In that count we can consider even the Super Hornet but given the track record of Uncle Sam's dirty fingers in imposing sanctions and the reluctance to give away latest tech in ToT we shouldn go for it.

 

[sancho]

Guys please keep in mind that these are LM officials and they might be ready to offer AESA ToT to get this deal, but that is not important. The real decision about ToT will be taken from US Gov, not LM!
Even Boeing said they are ready to sell a downgraded F18SH Growler version to foreign customers, but US Gov has never sold such a EW aicraft, not even to their closest allys UK, or Israel.
So whatever the companies say, that is PR, business, but until there are official statements of their countries, it's not worth too much.

 

[KEETARP]

About EW version of Hornet , thats not correct . Infact a scaled down version is on offer removing the wideband Ap jammer .

RAAF had done deal for SH and airframes were in production,otherwise would have taken EA18 version . As EA18 was revealed to public later on.
Still then they got all the necessary wiring done inside and can/will convert their F18 into EA version when F35 enters service later when they want. All this at a sum of 10mill more for wiring and electronics at current price .
Final price will depend on Jammer and EA configuration .

 

[sancho]

About EW version of Hornet , thats not correct . Infact a scaled down version is on offer removing the wideband Ap jammer .

RAAF had done deal for SH and airframes were in production,otherwise would have taken EA18 version . As EA18 was revealed to public later on.
Still then they got all the necessary wiring done inside and can/will convert their F18 into EA version when F35 enters service later when they want. All this at a sum of 10mill more for wiring and electronics at current price .
Final price will depend on Jammer and EA configuration .

That's the point, they only got the wirings done, so these fighters could be converted to Growlers, IF the US Gov clears the sale of these techs. So far there is no official statement of what Australia could get and when and let us keep in mind, they are a close alley of the US unlike India.
Without the active jammers the Growlers will lose most of its advantages and it would be better and easier for IAF, to get similar Israeli techs for the MKI.