LOCKHEED MARTIN ANNOUNCES F-16V DEVELOPMENT - A new F-16

[forcetrip]

Before there were paddles and we had the the Red Baron. Then there was Fly by wire and our BVR missles. Now its ECM suites and AESA radars. Soon it will be "Deep Blue" as the co pilot while racking up double digit kills in an encounter. It seems glorifying pilots was an emotional requirement of the past.

 

[Varunastra]

made FOR pakistan!!

 

[Chogy]

Lockheed Martin's F-16V seems to be outdated even before its induction, not literally though, but for the fact that it would fetch few buyers in the world market, really few.

Time for LM to grease palms of congressmen for relaxing sanctions on third world AFs which are still enamoured with the prospect of inducting Vipers...

Did you even read my post?

An upgraded F-16 will be absolutely competitive with anything other than true 5th generation.

 

[Nishan_101]

So is there any chance for the UAE, Qatar and Egypt selling there Mirages to Taiwan or other operators?

 

[DARKY]

The AESA upgrade is HUGE. It is hard to overstate just how important AESA is for the air to air role - heck ALL roles expected of a fighter.

The F-16 airframe is still one of the best ever designed of the non-stealthy generation. Take that basic airframe and upgrade the sensors, and you will have a superb fighter.

I've emphasized this a dozen times on PDF... the future of the air war is radar, sensors, cooperative data sharing, and smart, advanced weapons. NOT mach 2, zooming around at high G all the time, and doing yo-yos, lag rolls, and scissors.

Does the power plant on F-16 support the power requirements for a potent A-ESA... I know the aperture would be small so one can mount as much... but would like to know the power ratings on which those can operate....

sorry Sir but If my plane can have that high powered AESA with all those Infrared sensors and ECM packed up along with "mach 2, zooming around at high G all the time, and doing yo-yos, lag rolls, and scissors".. I would prefer the same against a CFTied F-16.... I was thinking If the Russians could perhaps do the same with Mig 21 and types.. I know the Chinese are trying to do it.

 

[SQ8]

Does the power plant on F-16 support the power requirements for a potent A-ESA... I know the aperture would be small so one can mount as much... but would like to know the power ratings on which those can operate....
.

apparently you have not heard of the Apg-80..

 

[DARKY]

apparently you have not heard of the Apg-80..

operational--power ratings....same thing a little scaled up on a SH is a totally different things.

 

[Chogy]

Does the power plant on F-16 support the power requirements for a potent A-ESA... I know the aperture would be small so one can mount as much... but would like to know the power ratings on which those can operate....

Are you kidding? The percentage of power from a jet engine diverted to electronics cannot be much more than 1%. These powerplants have abundant energy. Worst case, the CSD and generator might need to be upgraded... 1950's technology.

sorry Sir but If my plane can have that high powered AESA with all those Infrared sensors and ECM packed up along with "mach 2, zooming around at high G all the time, and doing yo-yos, lag rolls, and scissors".. I would prefer the same against a CFTied F-16.... I was thinking If the Russians could perhaps do the same with Mig 21 and types.. I know the Chinese are trying to do it.

If you want your AF to devote $$ and resources to an antiquated warfighting methodology, that's fine. It's like troops spending 1/2 of their training time on bayonet drills.

 

[SQ8]

operational--power ratings....same thing a little scaled up on a SH is a totally different things.

Really.. and what are those power ratings I ask?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The new warfare or air battles we are about to see

From US perspective , they will be bombing out airfields for planes instead of dog fights to disable airfields

Which is why they are focused on vertical intakes , and selling the rest of world planes that run on runways

Together with stealth and darkness of night this is their advantage in battle field

All other planes F16 A , B , C , D , V are just diversions so other nations would never develop a vertical landing plateform and instead would keep flying planes that launch off runaways

 

[SQ8]

Maybe you are confusing an F-16 with a commercial airliner. Yes in case of turbulence the pilot sheds off load from the aircraft's galleys (kitchen ovens and boilers)

What he seems to be pointing at are maximum power outputs from the aircrafts power-plants.. and more importantly.. power to the cooling systems for AESA apertures.
for eg.. the F-22 and Su-35 can produce around 15-20kw of Maximum dissipation power(which also means that they will stick outlike a sore thumb on newer RWR's unless LPI is used) .. that allowed them to really boost their radar range
The F-16 has 5-6Kw as MAXIMUM DISSIPATION POWER .
Do they ALWAYS operate in that mode?

 

[DARKY]

Are you kidding? The percentage of power from a jet engine diverted to electronics cannot be much more than 1%. These powerplants have abundant energy. Worst case, the CSD and generator might need to be upgraded... 1950's technology.

Yes the power requirements of the electronics would be 1% generally but when we start using ESA would get 4times hence more powerful generator yes the would definitely Changed/Upgraded/Replaced with a more powerful one and more space for cooling systems.

If you want your AF to devote $$ and resources to an antiquated warfighting methodology, that's fine. It's like troops spending 1/2 of their training time on bayonet drills.

Sir what price would you quote for this New F-16 ?
They are selling a Mig35 for 70-80million USD and thats with Zhuk-AE and TVC engine... a Su35S for 105million USD with Zhuk-ASE.... Would expect similar price ratings for the Chinese J-10B..... even Rafale would be avilable for 80-90million USD...

Don't you think the main purpose of F-16 is lost with all that CFT and larger wings ?.. I can understand If its business.

It could be that their electronics would not be on par with the ones Americans come up with... even on that note I would not rate APG-80/79 and APG-77/APG-81(F-35's radar correct me If wrong here) on the same league..

 

[DARKY]

Really.. and what are those power ratings I ask?

There is a rating for illumination and then you increase power as per requirements... GaAs transistors have been tested up to 50-60 watts even all depends on the power you can afford/handle/supply and cool the chips.

The illumination would take place around 1 watt If I am not wrong.

 

[SQ8]

There is a rating for illumination and then you increase power as per requirements... GaAs transistors have been tested up to 50-60 watts even all depends on the power you can afford/handle/supply and cool the chips.

The illumination would take place around 1 watt If I am not wrong.

Nominal power rating is around 10-20 watts..
Which is sufficient for most standard range Search, TWS, STT modes.
Only the specific Long range scan may need that power.
Depending on the target size.. and an ideal situation... you would need to transmit at such high ratings.
The preferred mode these days is LPI.. which uses a lot less power than the maximum advertised.
In light of this.. the big sukhoi may be able to generate massive power to search out the sky..
But that comes to naught if it gives away its position in that process.. and still has trouble locating a smaller fighter.
The F-22's radar can track at ranges close to that of many "advertised" Russian ones... But then it will also be letting any potential adversary know that it is being tracked. In LPI mode. it uses less power which translates to a decrease in range..
But nobody knows its out there and hunting them. And they can do all the loops, yo-yo's.. and cobra's they want...it will not save them from an Aim-120.

The Big nose and generating power of the Sukhoi are its advantage in todays battlefield..not its "aerial ballets"

 

[DARKY]

Nominal power rating is around 10-20 watts..

Yes since cooling is a big issue with current technology... new radars to be used on PAK FA or Su 30 would stand module ratings at 25-30 watts.

Which is sufficient for most standard range Search, TWS, STT modes.

yes It is but we must keep in mind LO-VLO targets like 4.5++ gen. planes and Ground targets.

Only the specific Long range scan may need that power.

When the area to be scanned is large( not the India Pakistan scenario but a Russia--China).

Depending on the target size.. and an ideal situation... you would need to transmit at such high ratings.

Once In active combat mode in BVR or an Interception they work upto their peak wattage(Any one in the cockpit would do If his life is at stake)... while on patrols its not needed... offcourse without AWACS.

The preferred mode these days is LPI.. which uses a lot less power than the maximum advertised.

Yes but If I have the longer stick why not use it 1st.

In light of this.. the big sukhoi may be able to generate massive power to search out the sky..
But that comes to naught if it gives away its position in that process.. and still has trouble locating a smaller fighter.

The smaller fighters might know that the Sukhoi is present but they would still require Sukhoi to get in their radar range to be track them or guide their weapons on sukhoi...

The F-22's radar can track at ranges close to that of many "advertised" Russian ones... But then it will also be letting any potential adversary know that it is being tracked. In LPI mode. it uses less power which translates to a decrease in range..

Since its main weapon is Stealth... Sukhoi has no point hiding it self against a potent enemy
.
But nobody knows its out there and hunting them. And they can do all the loops, yo-yo's.. and cobra's they want...it will not save them from an Aim-120.

Cobras and yo-yos causes sudden variations in speed and such could cause the lock to break... any plane does it with their jammers employed... even those CFTied F-16 would try yo-yos If R-77 is launched at them... wouldn't they ?


The Big nose and generating power of the Sukhoi are its advantage in todays battlefield..not its "aerial ballets"

If it weren't so then SUPERMANEUVERABILITY wouldn't have been a vital asset or one of the 4--S of the 5th gen. fighters.
Yes
The F-22A
PAK FA
even the J-20.