LoC flare up: August 2013

[Bang Galore]

....defence minister A K Antony said on Monday that the Army has been given a free hand to unleash "punitive fire assaults" and "other strong cross-border counter-measures" against any misadventure by Pakistan Army.

Antony clarified that the government will not stand in the way of any tough action by the Indian Army on the LoC. "The armed forces have the freedom to respond to developing situations there appropriately,"

Sources said that while rifles, light and heavy machine guns as well as mortars are being used against Pakistan Army posts across the LoC, regular retaliatory fire assaults by heavy artillery guns and howitzers could come into play now.

Army has free hand to counter Pak: Antony - The Times of India

 

[Secur]

@Secur

Gen. Musharraf's declining power did play a major part because the GoI wasn't sure that any agreement reached with him would stick & be agreeable to others in the system. Kayani's was a major voice & he backed off, saying he couldn’t afford to be charged by Islamists of treachery. It was also the reason that nothing could get done with the next regime(PPP) too because both the GoP & the PA were pushing for more. GoI now remains very wary of any agreement because they worry that any agreement & compromise made will simply not be honoured by others in Pakistan.

On Kayani's dislike for NS, that is common knowledge, even on diplomatic cables in wikileaks. It was believed to be the main reason that Kayani didn't overthrow Zardari, because he distrusted NS more than he disliked Zardari.



Not really. Our economy has not much to benefit from links to central asia, afghanistan etc, certainly not as much as you might like to assume. Our growing energy needs will be met, Pakistan will never be the main conduit for that. Iran is presently sanctioned but Pakistan is a far bigger mess than a sanctioned Iran & in any case, ties with Pakistan will simply not improve anytime soon. As I have said many times earlier, Pakistan's asking price (Kashmir) is not something India will ever be willing to pay. As mentioned before, desirable but not necessary.
The government is hardly pursuing ties with Pakistan on a direct economic rationale, believe me, I understand India far better than you do. You have nothing much to offer, certainly not anything that will make us consider your price.



The International Court of Arbitration depends on the two parties adhering to the IWT. Abrogation would remove jurisdiction. ICJ has no standing on matters between India & Pakistan, the reason why the "Atlantique" case was thrown out.



It certainly could be abrogated but that is an theoretical argument. Not something that is likely to happen. International pressure? Yeah, most definitely but if India were in such a situation that she considered abrogation, international pressure would not be sufficient. If international pressure hasn't changed Pakistan's behaviour, it would be stupid to assume that India can be stopped.



We don't actually need to. Not now. Pakistan is the one complaining about India violating the "spirit" of the treaty, it is given & accepted at the Hague, that India is not violating the law. When plenty can still be done with altering anything, why bother. I only pointed out that just like Pakistan violated an agreement like the LoC during Kargil, the IWT is no permanent holy cow. If push came to shove, it too could be in the firing line......"Could" being the operative word.

Actually , it was the only thing that set the deal off , otherwise the Musharraf had enough power , influence and stature to get it done . Whatever he could achieve with whatever deal he got the Indians to agree on , one cant hope from any other military or political leader in Pakistan . The reason for that are just another story , for another thread . Maybe , Govt of India is more cautious than is necessary . Agreements made between two countries signed by the Govts aren't easy/desirable to revoke , once signed . Kayani's action or words do not hint at that , as I said and Wikileaks aren't all that credible tbh , in my view . But the current COAS , is the most pro democratic , I have seen in the history of Pakistan . He wants the whole process to continue whilst keeping some ' checks ' , obviously .

I disagree , mate . I explained the Govt of India's willingness to talk despite the current situation , explains a lot . Your energy needs and requirements and demand for resources is growing , much than you are ready to acknowledge here . I never said about Pakistan being the main and absolute and only conduit , no . I just said that it can be a very important part if you can improve relations with Islamabad , beneficial for both surely if trade flourishes , but somehow there's more for you here . The current transit trade to Afghanistan goes through Pakistan's territory , what mess are you talking about ? A few hit and run attacks are a norm , because we are currently in a state of war with militants/terrorists . Pakistan's asking price is not the Kashmir but to solve the dispute once and for all by referendum . I will say it again ' the desirable has become necessary but will take time to realize ' . Lately , all that you Govt is talking about is economic co-operation . Hell , an offer to sell electricity was made today despite the situation , cant you read the signs ?

Yes , it does . But there you assume that the ' treaty had been abrogated ' . I am not denying that it cant be abrogated , only that the New Dehli cant face the International pressure and massive loss of face in such case - not to mention heightened tensions with Pakistan more than ever . In a war like situation , that can invite retaliation on the existing dam and other infrastructure in Kashmir . International pressure , I speak of , isn't limited to routine statements and a few calls by various head of states . I never mentioned holy cows , if Pakistan's survival is threatened , you can be sure that it will go to any step to ensure that it doesn't happen , dont you think ? I understand the ' hypothetical scenarios ' .

 

[Bang Galore]

APakistan's asking price is not the Kashmir but to solve the dispute once and for all by referendum . I will say it again ' the desirable has become necessary but will take time to realize ' . Lately , all that you Govt is talking about is economic co-operation . Hell , an offer to sell electricity was made today despite the situation , cant you read the signs ?

One point. Kashmir can only be solved by the Musharraf-MMS type of agreement, anything else is pure pipe dreams.

As for your second point, let us agree to disagree. Economic co-operation is extremely desirable but that would always be conditioned upon the asking price. The present asking price cannot & won't be paid. Offering to sell electricity means very little. Some of the states bordering Pakistan have surplus stock & that needs to be dealt with. I'm not sure whether you know of the Indian Northern grid trip of about 2 years ago, one of the reasons found was excess supply by some of these states on a line ill equipped to take that much load. While that has been rectified for the most part(by ordering a cut down of power production, line improvement etc), there still remains excess capacity there. Offering it to Pakistan is killing 2 birds with one stone. Help in utilising capacity but also create a constituency within Pakistan that favours good relations with India. Offering you electricity is not a sign that we need you, you are over reading things.

 

[karan.1970]

Five ceasefire violations by Pakistan in less than 48 hours | NDTV.com

Thrice in 24 hours: India violates ceasefire in Kashmir – The Express Tribune


.. what a load of "he said, she said" !!!

 

[Mav3rick]

Very true...some one deep down knows that they were at fault, one country or the other, but nobody will accept it, this goes all around the world...part of human nature. Can't blame anyone.

Have we not been generous enough to accept blames that weren't even ours? When has Indian owned up to anything, including her state sponsored acts of terrorism or support for terrorists?

Again, agreed. This issue is pretty low key in Pakistani media, and Pakistani public gets swayed by the media.

We have enough problems already going on, terrorism, Quetta and FATA are more prevalent in the media then this LoC issue. We already have our hands full...

Can it be that a major diversion is precisely what we need to unite as a nation? I mean, India is the perfect boogeyman. However, even as I write it I know that my argument is weak especially since it is Indian media that is creating a war hype and anti Pakistan sentiments while the stance on our side is restrain and wait.

 

[Mav3rick]

@Secur


Gen. Musharraf's declining power did play a major part because the GoI wasn't sure that any agreement reached with him would stick & be agreeable to others in the system. Kayani's was a major voice & he backed off, saying he couldn’t afford to be charged by Islamists of treachery. It was also the reason that nothing could get done with the next regime(PPP) too because both the GoP & the PA were pushing for more. GoI now remains very wary of any agreement because they worry that any agreement & compromise made will simply not be honoured by others in Pakistan.

That's BS man. For a solution to such a major problem b/w 2 Nuclear neighbours, there could have been a big number of guarantors such as USA/UK/France/Germany/Australia/China/Russia and perhaps even the UNO!!!

It was India which made sure that the golden opportunity was lost!

Army has free hand to counter Pak: Antony - The Times of India

All acts of aggression will be answered swiftly and in a befitting manner.

 

[Mav3rick]

Actually , it was the only thing that set the deal off , otherwise the Musharraf had enough power , influence and stature to get it done . Whatever he could achieve with whatever deal he got the Indians to agree on , one cant hope from any other military or political leader in Pakistan . The reason for that are just another story , for another thread . Maybe , Govt of India is more cautious than is necessary . Agreements made between two countries signed by the Govts aren't easy/desirable to revoke , once signed . Kayani's action or words do not hint at that , as I said and Wikileaks aren't all that credible tbh , in my view . But the current COAS , is the most pro democratic , I have seen in the history of Pakistan . He wants the whole process to continue whilst keeping some ' checks ' , obviously .

The current COAS is the biggest criminal in our recent history and his 'personal' interests (read: his involvement and influence over his brother's billion+ empire as COAS in give and take) and his actions/inactions have caused us massive headaches, heartaches and embarrassments.

I know that is beyond your post, but I just had to post.

 

[Bang Galore]

That's BS man. For a solution to such a major problem b/w 2 Nuclear neighbours, there could have been a big number of guarantors such as USA/UK/France/Germany/Australia/China/Russia and perhaps even the UNO!!!

It was India which made sure that the golden opportunity was lost!

I don't know where you got that. There would never be any guarantors. That would never be acceptable to India. The rest of my point is well known and widely agreed upon. Even Musharraf in a TV discussion with Jaswant Singh (moderated by Tim Sebastian) was faced by this question that the government that succeeded him was not adhering to the agreement & that it made it very difficult for India to ever trust Pakistan on that score. Musharraf did not disagree.

All acts of aggression will be answered swiftly and in a befitting manner.

A vicious cycle, no end.

 

[alimohsan52]

 

[Zarvan]

Hey guys please post the details of Pakistan Rangers which are deployed in these areas what equipment most probably they use to response back to India and hit the back @Aeronaut @Leader @Oscar @Antibodybody @nuclearpak @Zakii and others I saw video of rangers patrolling om city 42 they looked deadly better than Pakistan Army guys but most of the were wearing black shoes one was wearing brown one that pissed me off and Pakistan needs to make sure India faces some lost deploy snipers and those with rocket launchers hit back really hard

 

[Jango]

So another incident in Sialkot...yesterday there was firing at Sialkot as well.

 

[Leader]

india pagal hogiya hai...

 

[doppelganger]

Today's news is that St. Anthony has removed his lagaam from the Indian Army. They are now free to retaliate as they see fit on the LOC. Expect more heat to come your way in the days and weeks ahead guys. Happy Independence Day also.

 

[Jango]

Today's news is that St. Anthony has removed his lagaam from the Indian Army. They are now free to retaliate as they see fit on the LOC. Expect more heat to come your way in the days and weeks ahead guys. Happy Independence Day also.

Aakhir kar kia lo gay?

Translation: What will you do since the the Indian beast has been unleashed by Anthony?

 

[karan.1970]

Today's news is that St. Anthony has removed his lagaam from the Indian Army. They are now free to retaliate as they see fit on the LOC. Expect more heat to come your way in the days and weeks ahead guys. Happy Independence Day also.

Its sad that many soldiers (irrespective which side) will embrace martyrdom around such an important and happy date for both countries

Aakhir kar kia lo gay?

Translation: What will you do since the the Indian beast has been unleashed by Anthony?

Kill a few of yours at the cost of few of ours.. What else have both our countries done in last 60 years..