LOC as borders for India, Pakistan, China, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan and China

[SQ8]

As always, the sense of history of most Pakistanis as warped as it could be. There was no land exchange between India and pakistan after 1947. Junagadh & Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan were independent princely states that joined India.

Here we are talking about land belonging/administered by India or Pakistan changing sides. Never gonna happen..

Correction, Taken over by India then made to rescind accession to Pakistan for India.
Basically a gun was put to their heads to change their original decision.
Lets not omit history.

 

[faithfulguy]

Pakistanis can never give up on Kashmir. Forget about your proposal. You indians have been trying very hard over the years to get this fantasy into a reality. Solve the kashmir issue then talk about borders.
We Pakistanis will not abandon our brothers and sisters in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

How about Indian grant independent to Kashmir. But Pakistan cannot annex it or station troops in it. If Indians don't agree to this, they are not reasonable.

 

[Bang Galore]

How about Indian grant independent to Kashmir. But Pakistan cannot annex it or station troops in it. If Indians don't agree to this, they are not reasonable.

You wish. We could discuss it after China agrees that with Tibet & leaves aside any claim on Taiwan.

Correction, Taken over by India then made to rescind accession to Pakistan for India.
Basically a gun was put to their heads to change their original decision.
Lets not omit history.

Still a moot point is what did a country for Muslims want to do with predominantly Hindu subjects? India never positioned itself as a Hindu country & atleast theoretically was not obliged to follow that rule but what was Pakistan's logic? Jodhpur was the clearest idea of that behaviour, it failed & Pakistan whines that India succeeded doing just that in Kashmir.

 

[SQ8]

Still a moot point is what did a country for Muslims want to do with predominantly Hindu subjects? India never positioned itself as a Hindu country & atleast theoretically was not obliged to follow that rule but what was Pakistan's logic? Jodhpur was the clearest idea of that behaviour, it failed & Pakistan whines that India succeeded doing just that in Kashmir.

I am not at all talking about logic here and rather agree that as such it was a pointless move to cede to Pakistan and more of a leadership cede and not one from the population per se. But when stating history one has to be honest and truthful enough to acknowledge what happened before making sweeping statements. After all, this particular logic then does not apply to Kashmir where there was legitimate support from the populous for Pakistan. In either case, its not a "moot point" logic but rather intellectual honestly where one has the guts to step aside the "Jhatka for India and Haram for Pakistan" concept and be prepared to acknowledge each on a level bearing. After all, none of these secession stories rival the rather odd nature of Chitral's story.

 

[karan.1970]

Correction, Taken over by India then made to rescind accession to Pakistan for India.
Basically a gun was put to their heads to change their original decision.
Lets not omit history.

Semantics... However to the original point, these states in question were never under Pakistan's control and hence the change of control of territory between India and Pakistan did not take place in either of these cases.

Junagadh/Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan never joined india they were occupied by india...Junagadh/Manvadar joined Pakistan whereas Hyderabad Deccan became independent. Posters from india are proof that how ignorant can one become after getting brainwashed by army & media propagandas.

dude, do spend some time understanding the context before jumping in feet first. We are talking about change of control of territory. None of these states were ever under Pakistan's control. Hence the idea of change of ownership does not arise. I am not debating right or wrong here (since that is a never ending discussion), but simply my initial assertion that "Movement with Land did not happen during partition either."

And it would be funny, if it wasnt so pitiful, when Pakistanis talk about someone else being brainwashed by Army propaganda..

 

[American Pakistani]

dude, do spend some time understanding the context before jumping in feet first. We are talking about change of control of territory. None of these states were ever under Pakistan's control. Hence the idea of change of ownership does not arise. I am not debating right or wrong here (since that is a never ending discussion), but simply my initial assertion that "Movement with Land did not happen during partition either."

The need for change of ownership didn't arrive because india has stubbornly occupied those territories, to make international community fool it hold a referendum where people voted for india due to religious connectivity.

And it would be funny, if it wasnt so pitiful, when Pakistanis talk about someone else being brainwashed by Army propaganda..

It is more funny when indians accuse Pakistanis being brainwashed by Pak Army no matter in which corner of the world they are living...as if Pakistanis come with a default package of "brainwashed by Pak Army"

As for why i call indian posters brainwashed because that is reality, switch to any indian news channel & you'll know what i mean. The Freedom struggle of Kashmir is shown as Pakistan's backed insurgency.

 

[Screambowl]

The need for change of ownership didn't arrive because india has stubbornly occupied those territories, to make international community fool it hold a referendum where people voted for india due to religious connectivity.

As per the records Kashmir was given to Pakistan but when Pakistan sent forces to forcefully annex it, then only the Maharaja asked Indian forces to help the fight the invaders. How many times this has to be clarified, even it is accepted by your analysts. There should not be second opinion to it.

The separatist movement in kashmir arose only after 1971.

 

[my2cents]

Is this still the Chinese stance?

Remember at that time, India was not as weak compared to China as it is now.

As every year passes, China is getting more and more powerful when compared to India, and so in the future China will have the ability to take AP from India using conventional means.

by same logic we can take BD in a day by conventional means. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

China already has huge tracks of land which is barren and inhabitable and should be happy with aksai chin. What will they gain by going to war for another sparsely populated region of northeast.

 

[karan.1970]

The need for change of ownership didn't arrive because india has stubbornly occupied those territories, to make international community fool it hold a referendum where people voted for india due to religious connectivity.

Again. The topic of discussion was if there was a change of controller for these regions. Not whether the control was correct or not because then the discussions on Balochistan etc will come up too which again is not the topic of discussion.

Note: when you do not have an argument or logic, stubbornly straying off course is not the answer

It is more funny when indians accuse Pakistanis being brainwashed by Pak Army no matter in which corner of the world they are living...as if Pakistanis come with a default package of "brainwashed by Pak Army"

When you see Pakistanis preferring to stay under a military dictator's thumb instead of a democratic govt, its not a huge leap of faith to assume the mass brainwash ..

As for why i call indian posters brainwashed because that is reality, switch to any indian news channel & you'll know what i mean. The Freedom struggle of Kashmir is shown as Pakistan's backed insurgency.

Just like Pakistani TVs talk about Balochistan freedom struggle as terrorism. Its not about Media brainwash, but about Govt's official standing on an issue..

 

[American Pakistani]

As per the records Kashmir was given to Pakistan but when Pakistan sent forces to forcefully annex it, then only the Maharaja asked Indian forces to help the fight the invaders. How many times this has to be clarified, even it is accepted by your analysts. There should not be second opinion to it.

Pakistan send no forces at all to annex Kashmir...why don't you people cut your cr@ppy propaganda? When dogra army started terrorizing innocent Kashmiris then Pakistan Army was ordered to attack dogra army but Pakistani general who was a British refused to follow orders, later on furious Tribals from FATA launch their own attack against dogra army & were welcomed openly by Kashmiris.

The separatist movement in kashmir arose only after 1971.

Wrong, it only gain momentum after 71 but it was boiling since 48, it was cool down earlier because nehru had promised referendum.

 

[INDIC]

Pakistan send no forces at all to annex Kashmir...why don't you people cut your cr@ppy propaganda? When dogra army started terrorizing innocent Kashmiris then Pakistan Army was ordered to attack dogra army but Pakistani general who was a British refused to follow orders, later on furious Tribals from FATA launch their own attack against dogra army & were welcomed openly by Kashmiris.

.

The attack of the tribal of FATA was planned by Pakistani army under the Brigadier Akbar Khan code name General Tariq, about 3 Lakh rupees were alloted for the mission from Pakistan's treasury. But the tribals themselves indulged in looting the Kashmiri Muslims instead of capturing Srinagar's airport nearby.

 

[American Pakistani]

Again. The topic of discussion was if there was a change of controller for these regions. Not whether the control was correct or not because then the discussions on Balochistan etc will come up too which again is not the topic of discussion.

The topic of discussion is "how many people support LoC as IB" not change of control or anything. Balochistan or Maharatra or Gujarat or Tamil addu are legal territories of Pakistan & India respectively so there is no need to drag these regions not only in this thread but any where. Except Kalat & Gawadar state all states of Balochistan joined Pakistan with full consensus & debates in their jirga systems. Kalat's jirga/parliament like gathering was still debating & discussing on joining Pakistan when Khan of Kalat use his power & decide to act on his own & announced merging his state with Pakistan, note that Khan of Kalat was an old friend & client of Hazrat Mohammad Ali Jinnah(R.A) & Kalat was surrounded by Sind & other Balochistan states all of which had already joined Pakistan, Gawadar was the last state that joined Pakistan & it was purchased by govt of Pakistan from Oman.

 

[American Pakistani]

When you see Pakistanis preferring to stay under a military dictator's thumb instead of a democratic govt, its not a huge leap of faith to assume the mass brainwash ..

Pakistan have much more advanced & open media than india can ever dream of. It criticize Pakistani Army & Govt like no where else on earth.

Just like Pakistani TVs talk about Balochistan freedom struggle as terrorism. Its not about Media brainwash, but about Govt's official standing on an issue..

My answer to this post is hidden in the replies i posted above. Also refrain from derailing the thread & dragging Balochistan, Khalistan, Maharatradesh, Gujaratadesh, Tamil Eelam, Mughalistan, etc.

 

[INDIC]

The topic of discussion is "how many people support LoC as IB" not change of control or anything. Balochistan or Maharatra or Gujarat or Tamil addu are legal territories of Pakistan & India respectively so there is no need to drag these regions not only in this thread but any where. Except Kalat & Gawadar state all states of Balochistan joined Pakistan with full consensus & debates in their jirga systems. Kalat's jirga/parliament like gathering was still debating & discussing on joining Pakistan when Khan of Kalat use his power & decide to act on his own & announced merging his state with Pakistan, note that Khan of Kalat was an old friend & client of Hazrat Mohammad Ali Jinnah(R.A) & Kalat was surrounded by Sind & other Balochistan states all of which had already joined Pakistan, Gawadar was the last state that joined Pakistan & it was purchased by govt of Pakistan from Oman.

The region you named all had valid accession with India unlike Kalat. Even the Junagadh was handed over to India by Sir Shahnawaz Bhutto when his Nawab fled and he couldn't control the uprising.

 

[American Pakistani]

The attack of the tribal of FATA was planned by Pakistani army under the Brigadier Akbar Khan code name General Tariq, about 3 Lakh rupees were alloted for the mission from Pakistan's treasury. But the tribals themselves indulged in looting the Kashmiri Muslims instead of capturing Srinagar's airport nearby.

Don't f@rt posts out of your @$$ & don't post indian army/media propaganda. Provide a valid neutral source where it says Pakistani Army send the Tribals to attack dogra terrorist army.