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Li Keqiang cannot be fooled around with.

ThatDamnGood

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China's GDP is man-made, unreliable: top leader | Reuters

Reuters) - China's GDP figures are "man-made" and therefore unreliable, the man who is expected to be the country's next head of government said in 2007, according to U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.

Li Keqiang, head of the Communist Party in northeastern Liaoning province at the time, was unusually candid in his assessment of local economic data at a dinner with then-U.S. Ambassador to China Clark Randt, according to a confidential memo sent after the meeting and published on the WikiLeaks website.

The U.S. cable reported that Li, who is now a vice premier, focused on just three data points to evaluate Liaoning's economy: electricity consumption, rail cargo volume and bank lending.

"By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are 'for reference only,' he said smiling," the cable added.

Li is widely expected to succeed Wen Jiabao as premier in early 2013, a position that will put him in charge of policy making in the world's second-biggest economy.

A news official in the Chinese foreign ministry declined to comment on the specific cable and referred to comments last week in which a ministry spokesman called on the United States to resolve issues related to the leaks.

A spokesman for the U.S. Embassy to China was not immediately available.

Chinese economic numbers, especially at the provincial level and lower, have long been viewed with suspicion by analysts.

"That China's GDP is not reliable, especially for local GDP, that is nothing new," said an economist with a foreign bank who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of discussing top national leaders.

"Some of the volume data, such as power and rail freight and even (bank) credit, are interesting because there is less incentive to massage them at the local level. But they reveal only part of the truth, not the entire truth," he said.

"This would be a useful measure for steel and cement production. I'm not sure how well it would measure retail sales."

Li would naturally have been most interested in heavy industry in his stewardship of Liaoning's economy. The province is one of China's top producers of steel, petrochemicals and machinery.

STATS Skeptic

Li has also gone on the record before to ask for more from the government's statisticians.

During a 2009 visit to the National Bureau of Statistics, Li asked whether China calculated GDP on a monthly basis.

Li pressed on when he was told that data was gathered quarterly and that monthly calculations were difficult.

"Do Western nations make monthly calculations?" he asked, according the NBS website.

The U.S. embassy memo, sent on March 15, 2007, described Li as engaging and well informed. It said that he was trying to create a "harmonious society" by providing new housing to the poor and creating jobs for every household.

Li noted public dissatisfaction with education, health care and housing but said that official corruption was the biggest source of anger, the cable said.

He was reported as saying that the most effective way to combat corruption was to create transparent rules and to ensure adequate supervision, while also educating officials.

"Part of this education involves prison tours that force bureaucrats to visit incarcerated officials convicted of graft in order to witness first-hand the consequences of malfeasance," the cable said.
 
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wasn't it actually that the GDP was calculated wrong, but it was underestimated, not overestimated?
 
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Let's assume that China's National Bureau of Statistics is incapable of collecting economic data. Instead, let's focus on the standard measure of electricity consumption. Compare the amount of electricity used by the United States and China.

What does it tell you about the size of the real Chinese economy? Does anybody truly believe that China's real economy is only one-third the size of the U.S. economy (as reflected in nominal GDP measurements)?

Electricity - consumption(kWh) 2010 country ranks, By Rank

Rank.....Country.............Value (kW-hours)............Date of Info
1..........United States...3,741,485,000,000.........2009 (actual, see below)
2..........China................3,643,000,000,000.........2009 (actual, see below)
3..........European Union..2,884,000,000,000..........2007 est.
4..........Russia................1,023,000,000,000.........2007 est.
5..........Japan.................1,007,000,000,000.........2007 est.
6..........India.....................568,000,000,000.........2007 est.
7..........Germany...............547,300,000,000.........2007 est.
8..........Canada..................536,100,000,000.........2007 est.
9..........France...................447,200,000,000.........2007 est.
10........Brazil.....................404,300,000,000.........2007 est.

References:

United States: International Energy Statistics

China: China's power consumption grows 6% in 2009_English_Xinhua
 
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What does it tell you about the size of the real Chinese economy? Does anybody truly believe that China's real economy is only one-third the size of the U.S. economy (as reflected in nominal GDP measurements)?

Electricity - consumption(kWh) 2010 country ranks, By Rank

Rank.....Country.............Value (kW-hours)............Date of Info
1..........United States...3,741,485,000,000.........2009 (actual, see below)
2..........China................3,643,000,000,000.........2009 (actual, see below)
3..........European Union..2,884,000,000,000..........2007 est.


CHina's economy runs in a very low efficiency.
 
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Hai, everybody "plays" with the figures. No need to be defensive with this.

eg
Shadow Government Statistics : Home Page
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article24802.html
remember the delay when it was finally reported that the US was in recession
the all so convenient revisions of various economic figures a couple of months down the line.
etc, etc.

Lastly, the reporting on Wikileaks with regards to China fill with lies...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...s-tell-lies-about-wikileaks-cables-china.html

Hence the title. The "eunuchs" can't play punk with this guy.
 
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CHina's economy runs in a very low efficiency.

In many situations, China uses the most efficient equipment in the world. I do not believe your claim that China's economy is very inefficient. Please provide facts to support your claim or retract your statement.

China has shut down more than a thousand older coal-fired power plants that used technology of the sort still common in the United States just in the last three years. [3 years x 1,000 coal plants shut] So much done yet so much more to do going forwa

"July 6, 2010
...
Although China has passed the United States in the average efficiency of its coal-fired power plants, demand for electricity is so voracious that China last year built new coal-fired plants with a total capacity greater than all existing power plants in New York State."
 
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Hai, everybody "plays" with the figures. No need to be defensive with this.

Oh no I mean no ill will. I just don't like using electricity generation as the sole indicator of production. It all depends heavily on what kind of industry is being promoted.
 
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Agree China's heavy industry is expanding and they are much more energy intensive for unit production.

Energy efficiency and energy intensity are two different issues. A country can use the most-advanced technology available and be the most-efficient producer of steel in an energy-intensive industry. They are two separate topics.
 
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Energy efficiency and energy intensity are two different issues. A country can use the most-advanced technology available and be the most-efficient producer of steel in an energy-intensive industry. They are two separate topics.

Yes you're right I meant energy intensive not energy efficient.
 
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