Lessons Learnt from Operation Swift Retort - AIR CDRE KAISER TUFAIL (R)

[TopGun786]

this is whole incident was more than india planes getting shot... it stopped once and for all any further indian adventures in to Pakistan both real and imagined.

Indians have in general stayed away from confronting Pakistan directly... and stepped up cross border terrorism

Exactly.

 

[peagle]

Lessons Learnt from Operation Swift Retort​

Since 2019, every year February serves as reminder of the Balakot strike as well as Pakistan’s befitting response to India

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The Balakot strike by the Indian Air Force (IAF) on February 26, 2019, and Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) ‘Swift Retort’ a day later can be considered watershed events in modern aerial warfare. Though the IAF’s strike was beset with technical snags, including failure of stand-off bombs to guide themselves to the target due to faulty terrain elevation data, it was able to deliver the ordnance – albeit, in the pine forests – from as far as 40 kms away. Interception of the ingressing IAF fighters threw up a new conundrum: flying in their own territory, the hostile intentions of the fighters could not be read in advance and they could not be fired at lest Pakistan be accused of unprovoked aggression. After weapons release, the IAF aircraft rapidly turned back and could not be chased for the fear of violating the international rules of engagement as the release of bombs – and breach of peace – was discovered only after some time.

The key to any Pakistani response to Indian aggression was prompt decision-making by the government. The Prime Minister immediately went into parleys with the service chiefs, and a proportionate response by PAF was agreed upon. With a decision taken by the Prime Minister to definitely respond, the nuts and bolts of the operation were left to the Chief of the Air Staff. The latter was mindful of the possibility of escalation and the planning process that followed duly took this aspect into account.

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The key to any Pakistani response to Indian aggression was prompt decision-making by the government. The Prime Minister immediately went into parleys with the service chiefs, and a proportionate response by PAF was agreed upon.

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PAF retaliated within 30 hours of the IAF’s strike, and hit Indian targets with stand-off bombs, staying well within our own territory. The sizeable strike package including its escorts, as well as the accompanying fighter sweep aircraft, swamped the Indian air defence radar scopes and the patrolling Su-30 aircraft were promptly vectored towards the PAF swarm. Sooner the PAF strike fighters had delivered the bombs and turned around, the F-16s and JF-17s swept the skies with very useful support from the data-linked airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) and ground radars, as well as from own formation members. The pilots were glued to their multi-function displays streaming vital information and firing cues. It was as if a whole squadron was playing a mass video game in the skies. With excellent situational awareness, and the adversary in disarray, an approaching Su-30 was targeted by one of the PAF fighters with a Beyond Visual Range missile. Besides the Su-30s, the patrolling IAF Mirage 2000s seemed shell-shocked as well and did not enter the fray. MiG-21 Bisons on ground alert had, therefore, to be scrambled. All this time PAF’s airborne and ground jammers were at work, and the IAF pilots and air defence controllers were thrown into total confusion. As one of the scrambled MiGs appeared on the radar scope of another PAF fighter aircraft, a missile was fired, which shot the MiG out of the sky, the pilot surviving by a whisker and parachuting into Pakistani territory.

The mission flown by PAF was unique in many ways. The ground targets had been identified and prepared well in advance for exactly such an eventuality. The pilots had routinely practised flying in formations as large as 50 aircraft, with electronic countermeasure (ECM) support and comprehensive situational awareness provided by the AEW&C aircraft. BVR missiles were used in the Indo-Pak scenario for the first time; interestingly, close combat situations did not crop up for the classic dogfighters. It was manifest that BVR combat had taken precedence over close combat, if not rendering it completely obsolete.

A fighter in any future conflict must therefore have both long and short range missile firing capabilities along with associated sensors like radars, threat warning systems, and data links. PAF could do well by urgently replacing its legacy fighters with ‘home-grown’ JF-17s (especially the upcoming Block III version) which have all the desirable attributes at an affordable cost.

For surface attack, stand-off capabilities were demonstrated by both air forces, and the safety of attacking an aircraft was clearly highlighted. Accuracy of the attacks was, however, not achieved for different reasons: the IAF suffering from faulty terrain data being fed into the bombs’ guidance system, and PAF being constrained by political considerations to prevent escalation by avoiding direct hits on military targets. In any case, the efficacy of stand-off weapon delivery was unmistakably validated, and it is certain that this is likely to be the mode of choice in any future conflict. An aircraft not having such a weapon delivery capability should be considered redundant for surface attack missions.

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All this time PAF’s airborne and ground jammers were at work, and the IAF pilots and air defence controllers were thrown into total confusion. As one of the scrambled MiGs appeared on the radar scope of another PAF fighter aircraft, a missile was fired, which shot the MiG out of the sky, the pilot surviving by a whisker and parachuting into Pakistani territory.

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India had the initiative, and could also exploit the element of secrecy and surprise to its advantage. However, these possible benefits were squandered by the IAF as the operation was flawed in its planning and entirely disastrous in its execution. Some of the basic planning considerations were flouted: cloudy weather resulted in the cancellation of the electro-optical weapons delivery; elevation data fed into the autonomous Spice 2000 bombs was in error; capabilities of the PAF’s BVR air-to-air missiles were not well-known to the IAF aircrew; and the determination as well as the state of readiness of PAF was taken lightly. More serious was the failure of IAF’s patrolling fighters to pick up the gauntlet when challenged, allowing PAF fighters to have a free run; it reflected poorly on the morale and training of IAF pilots. Oversight of the operation was faulty at all levels of command and cannot be put down to bad luck by an air force that claims to be professional.

Despite PAF finding itself in a reactive mode, the latter’s full operational preparedness clearly saved the day. The whole operation was over within 48 hours, and the deployment of strike elements of ground forces did not take place. It became amply clear that air forces offer the best and swiftest means of retribution under a nuclear overhang as the relatively slow positioning of ground troops to their operational areas is fraught with the possibility of being stymied due to international pressure. PAF’s tour de force will, thus, serve as a model for dealing with any future Indian military action that is punitive in nature. PAF’s preparedness must continue to be refined as IAF is expected to iron out the hitches that dogged its operations during the failed Balakot strike.

It is to be noted that after a disastrous showing by IAF on February 26 and 27, the Indian government unwisely decided to even the score by deploying – conceivably, for employing – surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) against targets in Pakistan. Apparently, this measure was aimed at preventing further fighter losses at the hands of the PAF that was perceived by the IAF as being technically superior. Exercise of the rash and senseless decision to deploy SSMs could well have been misconstrued by Pakistan and a catastrophic exchange could have followed between the two nuclear-armed neighbours. The Government of Pakistan, as well as its Armed Forces, should treat it as a textbook lesson in regional conflict escalation dynamics and must remain cognisant of such developments in any future conflict.

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More serious was the failure of IAF’s patrolling fighters to pick up the gauntlet when challenged, allowing PAF fighters to have a free run; it reflected poorly on the morale and training of IAF pilots. Oversight of the operation was faulty at all levels of command and cannot be put down to bad luck by an air force that claims to be professional.

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With the Rubicon having been crossed after the Balakot raid, use of IAF fighters to compliment the usual artillery shelling across the Line of Control is likely to be the new norm for intimidating Pakistan.

Though the failed IAF strike did not bring any concrete dividends, it did open up the possibility for India to repeat such actions in the future. The mistakes made in planning and execution of February 26/27, 2019 operation are certain to have been remedied, and it would be naïve to believe that India is not raring for a revenge bout. India has never digested the fact that its military options against Pakistan have been thwarted by the latter’s nuclear capability. To keep an upper hand as a regional player, India is likely to resort to periodic muscle-flexing through so-called ‘surgical strikes.’ Pakistan’s military, especially the quick-reacting PAF, needs to maintain its operational readiness at the cutting edge to deter India from any adventurism in the future.
Unfortunately, the reaction of the international community to India’s brazen aggression against Pakistan was muted and any outright condemnation was absent. The closest any country got to a disapproval was a ‘neither here nor there’ statement, calling all parties to exercise restraint. In an environment where freedom movements are labelled as terror campaigns – as in Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and Palestine – it is not difficult for host governments to justify punitive actions against suspected supporters. Pakistan needs to be wary of this reprehensible trend, and needs to be at the diplomatic forefront to quell hostile propaganda by its adversaries, especially India.

Lessons Learnt from Operation Swift Retort

Since 2019, every year February serves as reminder of the Balakot strike as well as Pakistan’s befitting response to India The Balakot strike by the Indian Air Force (IAF) on February 26, 2019, and Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) ‘Swift Retort’ a day later can be considered watershed events in...

www.hilal.gov.pk

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The writer is a retired fighter pilot and aviation historian.
E-mail: ksrtfl@gmail.com

Beautiful article.
Good to know we have our heads screwed on right. There is never a time to be complacent, and there are always lessons to be learnt from defeat or victory.

This is the kind of mind-set we need, and should be encouraged.

 

[Pajeet]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

 

[White privilege]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

 

[HttpError]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

Abhinandan's anniversary is approaching on 28th Feb we will celebrate it like anything, you are invited, as we will also celebrate the downing of Su-35.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would disagree. I maintain that part of aindian calculus was that the missiles having landed in barren area which has not cqused any loss of life/will not be responded to by Pakistan. That Pakistan has reszponded only goes to show that the next time the planning and execution from across the border will be better and more comprehensive. It may also be more aggressive.

Well, nothing to disagree with over here, but there are cautionary features for India to learn.

1. If you are going to pull a trigger, remember, the other guy also has triggers to pull; be ready for it.
   It was utterly childish to mount a raid, and then sit around on the phone, telling the saffron buffoons what glorious war leaders they were. They weren't, but sucking up to them cost thinking time, and preparing time.
2. If you are going to pull one trigger, don't think the other guy will pull one trigger in his turn.
   Ironic that, of all people, the Indian Air Force forgot India's own example in 65, when an attack with full force by the 12th Division across the Tawi at Chhamb was met by an equally violent response towards Lahore across the International Border. Would not the PAF, on finding a needle being stuck into its hide, obviously have a similar violent reaction?
   Going by Kaisar Tufail's account, the PAF struck back in strength; first, they sent the strike force forward, to drop ordnance - making it accurate or inaccurate was thoroughly irrelevant, the idea was to bring a furious reaction from the IAF, and make them lose their heads. They did, scrambled 64 year old fighters, that depended on ground controllers, jammed the ground controllers and picked off the easiest target. It wasn't easy, but the series of mistakes by the IAF made things less difficult for the PAF.
3. A man's gotta know his limitations.
   What was good for Harry Callaghan was good for the IAF. How could they go into battle knowing that they would be sitting ducks due to the longer range of the missiles that the PAF carried? We already know that to save money (while signing a disastrous deal for 36 Rafales at a greater cost than 126 Rafales, thus falsifying gravity), HAL signed up for an Israeli radar that the French totally refused to interface with either MICA or Meteor, leaving us only with limited range R73 and R77s. We went into that gunfight carrying knives.
4. Ossification.
   While the PAF was preparing furiously hard, the IAF, depending on its excellent pilot performance in various exercises with other forces, was complacent. Nobody senior was in charge during those critical hours. The switching off of IFF on a search and rescue helicopter got it shot down by our own SAM battery. Ground controllers were frantic wiwth worry while their pilots vanished, and rushed towards an oncoming mass of PAF aircraft. The SU 30s did not want to risk their craft in battle against a charging horde equipped with longer range missiles. In the middle of all this, there was nobody senior taking control, and fighting the battle.

The flip side of it is Pakistan will have to respond but at a fitting level. This is a dangerous game being played very close to the red lines of both states. At what time do we cross this and to what level is something that can be debated. However any miscqpculation can have disasterous consequences.
So in effect the bar has just been raised but the threat level is palapbly there.
A

THIS part is the risky part. I dare not write about it; the essentials are so dicey that one is inclined to close off one's mind to it, almost in dread of invoking the evil by thinking about it.

 

[Trango Towers]

Dont worry...let PAF worry and you sleep. That's their job and they are good at it

What are the chances that india with the help of frenchs and israelis caught our electronics signals (radars signals , jamming signals etc..) and got their systems upgraded ?

That’s worry me a lot .

Thanks.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

OR may be you get it all wrong. Briefing was about Pakistan's response strike mission in which No F-16 took part. F-16s were part of fighter sweep ... when DG ISPR said No F-16 was used, he was clearly pointing towards original Swift Retort strike. Mig-21 and MKI were shot down when they tried to become a threat to strike package (by approaching or crossing LoC). Yes, strike package could have been hit with IAF's BVR missile while being within Pakistan airspace. Shooting down IAF fighters were never included in SR.

 

[Trango Towers]

Well, nothing to disagree with over here, but there are cautionary features for India to learn.

1. If you are going to pull a trigger, remember, the other guy also has triggers to pull; be ready for it.
   It was utterly childish to mount a raid, and then sit around on the phone, telling the saffron buffoons what glorious war leaders they were. They weren't, but sucking up to them cost thinking time, and preparing time.
2. If you are going to pull one trigger, don't think the other guy will pull one trigger in his turn.
   Ironic that, of all people, the Indian Air Force forgot India's own example in 65, when an attack with full force by the 12th Division across the Tawi at Chhamb was met by an equally violent response towards Lahore across the International Border. Would not the PAF, on finding a needle being stuck into its hide, obviously have a similar violent reaction?
   Going by Kaisar Tufail's account, the PAF struck back in strength; first, they sent the strike force forward, to drop ordnance - making it accurate or inaccurate was thoroughly irrelevant, the idea was to bring a furious reaction from the IAF, and make them lose their heads. They did, scrambled 64 year old fighters, that depended on ground controllers, jammed the ground controllers and picked off the easiest target. It wasn't easy, but the series of mistakes by the IAF made things less difficult for the PAF.
3. A man's gotta know his limitations.
   What was good for Harry Callaghan was good for the IAF. How could they go into battle knowing that they would be sitting ducks due to the longer range of the missiles that the PAF carried? We already know that to save money (while signing a disastrous deal for 36 Rafales at a greater cost than 126 Rafales, thus falsifying gravity), HAL signed up for an Israeli radar that the French totally refused to interface with either MICA or Meteor, leaving us only with limited range R73 and R77s. We went into that gunfight carrying knives.
4. Ossification.
   While the PAF was preparing furiously hard, the IAF, depending on its excellent pilot performance in various exercises with other forces, was complacent. Nobody senior was in charge during those critical hours. The switching off of IFF on a search and rescue helicopter got it shot down by our own SAM battery. Ground controllers were frantic wiwth worry while their pilots vanished, and rushed towards an oncoming mass of PAF aircraft. The SU 30s did not want to risk their craft in battle against a charging horde equipped with longer range missiles. In the middle of all this, there was nobody senior taking control, and fighting the battle.

THIS part is the risky part. I dare not write about it; the essentials are so dicey that one is inclined to close off one's mind to it, almost in dread of invoking the evil by thinking about it.

Very well put Joe
The saffron bandits have destroyed india's image. Mislead the masses and ruined professional institutions. Sadly for you they are not done.
When I heard the Rafael saga and cost associated I was shocked at the stupidity

 

[blain2]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

There are no lies. It is the fog of war. DG, ISPR will not know which assets the PAF would employ in the operation. It is the outcome of basic services stratification and our DG, ISPR is more army focused than joint services. That aside, even most in the army's inner circles such as PSOs etc. (which the DG ISPR is not a part of) would not know how the Air Force would conduct operations except in generalities. Expecting the DG, ISPR to be privy to all the operational details of the Air Force planning and asset employment is unrealistic. In hindsight, had a DPR, PAF officer been included in the briefing to the media, some of these things would have been avoided. It is like expecting a PAF, DPR officer to know which artillery howitzers were used to hit Indian positions across the LoC using which specific ammunition. It just does not happen.

The same applies to the talk of two pilots. Indians made a big fuss over it. Various army units are deployed in AK across LoC. Multiple units and personnel reported back to the relevant headquarters that a downed Indian airman is in custody (this on top of the fact that PAF verified that it had two (2) confirmed kills against a Mig-21 and a Su-3MKI). As such it is not that difficult to come to the conclusion that maybe we had two personnel in custody. The Indian pilot was sent off to a field hospital and then to the CMH and the DG-ISPR said the same.

The reality is that in this episode, IAF was outclassed. Clutching at straws and claiming that Pakistan lied and bloody hid an entire F-16 in a day when every Tom, Dick and Harry has a cell-phone with a camera and the fact that there is no way to control people from capturing a downed aircraft is the reality. You can pick and choose what is convenient for yourself and that is fine.

To the Pakistanis, what should never be lost on us are the lessons from the years between 1965 and 1971. PAF's performance in the first forced an introspection within IAF (they are professionals, let's not forget that) and in 1971 they were better prepared. I know all of the PAF's senior leadership is aware of this fact and their focus is on staying ahead with our deterrence value. So let's not lose focus of the broader situation using the lessons of with happened over one night in 2019.

Its reassuring that PAF is not sitting around. There are drastic enhancements being made regardless of IAF's acquisition of Rafales, S-400 etc.

 

[araz]

Well, nothing to disagree with over here, but there are cautionary features for India to learn.

1. If you are going to pull a trigger, remember, the other guy also has triggers to pull; be ready for it.
   It was utterly childish to mount a raid, and then sit around on the phone, telling the saffron buffoons what glorious war leaders they were. They weren't, but sucking up to them cost thinking time, and preparing time.
2. If you are going to pull one trigger, don't think the other guy will pull one trigger in his turn.
   Ironic that, of all people, the Indian Air Force forgot India's own example in 65, when an attack with full force by the 12th Division across the Tawi at Chhamb was met by an equally violent response towards Lahore across the International Border. Would not the PAF, on finding a needle being stuck into its hide, obviously have a similar violent reaction?
   Going by Kaisar Tufail's account, the PAF struck back in strength; first, they sent the strike force forward, to drop ordnance - making it accurate or inaccurate was thoroughly irrelevant, the idea was to bring a furious reaction from the IAF, and make them lose their heads. They did, scrambled 64 year old fighters, that depended on ground controllers, jammed the ground controllers and picked off the easiest target. It wasn't easy, but the series of mistakes by the IAF made things less difficult for the PAF.
3. A man's gotta know his limitations.
   What was good for Harry Callaghan was good for the IAF. How could they go into battle knowing that they would be sitting ducks due to the longer range of the missiles that the PAF carried? We already know that to save money (while signing a disastrous deal for 36 Rafales at a greater cost than 126 Rafales, thus falsifying gravity), HAL signed up for an Israeli radar that the French totally refused to interface with either MICA or Meteor, leaving us only with limited range R73 and R77s. We went into that gunfight carrying knives.
4. Ossification.
   While the PAF was preparing furiously hard, the IAF, depending on its excellent pilot performance in various exercises with other forces, was complacent. Nobody senior was in charge during those critical hours. The switching off of IFF on a search and rescue helicopter got it shot down by our own SAM battery. Ground controllers were frantic wiwth worry while their pilots vanished, and rushed towards an oncoming mass of PAF aircraft. The SU 30s did not want to risk their craft in battle against a charging horde equipped with longer range missiles. In the middle of all this, there was nobody senior taking control, and fighting the battle.

THIS part is the risky part. I dare not write about it; the essentials are so dicey that one is inclined to close off one's mind to it, almost in dread of invoking the evil by thinking about it.

Jo
You have been sorely missed. I dont comment on this vs that threads but reality checks on both sides is so important. The world is no longer a peaceful place and volatility and right is might seems to be the norm of the day. Unfortunately NATO which started this business is now on the receiving end of it. Except they never play in their own backyards but always in some far far away land which their ignorant people know nothing about. There are a few pacifists/pragmatists left and I am afraid our voices will be drowned in the cacaphony of the war drum beating ignorant fools who rule us.
Anyways nice hearing from you and nice to see you contributing again. Hope your health is better.
A

 

[Joe Shearer]

The reality is that in this episode, IAF was outclassed. You can believe whatever you want. Clutching at straws and claiming that Pakistan lied and bloody hid an entire F-16 in a day when every Tom, Dick and Harry has a cell-phone with a camera and the fact that there is no way to control people from capturing a downed aircraft is the reality. You can pick and choose what is convenient for yourself and that is fine.

The difference, imho, not being associated with flying, but only avionics and such, is that the PAF has learnt battle management, while for the IAF, it is still very much a matter of individual pilots and their derring do. What Kaisar Tufail's article reveals is that there was a clear script laid out, and it was followed meticulously; second, it was frightening to read between the lines, and realise how the PAF has internalised electronic warfare, and learnt to use their early warning and communications systems in battle. The advantage they got when the MiG 21s scrambled, was in blanking out the ground controllers, who, for the 1955 vintage MiGs, were the only links with the rest of the world.

Not good.

Jo
You have been sorely missed. I dont comment on this vs that threads but reality checks on both sides is so important. The world is no longer a peaceful place and volatility and right is might seems to be the norm of the day. Unfortunately NATO which started this business is now on the receiving end of it. Except they never play in their own backyards but always in some far far away land which their ignorant people know nothing about. There are a few pacifists/pragmatists left and I am afraid our voices will be drowned in the cacaphony of the war drum beating ignorant fools who rule us.
Anyways nice hearing from you and nice to see you contributing again. Hope your health is better.
A

I am back here only for the possibility of interacting with friends like you.

Hope you are well, and flourishing.

For me, the world has become a very lonely and very dreadful place. My health has good days and bad days, but that hardly matters. It is the terrible situation around that is demoralising.

 

[The Eagle]

Great Article.
Some Points to note before this post gets deleted :

1. PAF never crossed LOC and released "Standoff" Ammunition.

This means while India had no 'fears'; to cross LOC, PAF Stayed in their Safe zone.

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

Video proof of this Lie :

'No F-16 used': DG ISPR rubbishes Indian media reports

DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor issued clarification after fake news circulated by India.

dunyanews.tv

3. This Confirms the Image Below. For Clarity, when Indians Showed This missile, it was to Refute the Claim by DG ISPR and Expose this BIG Lie ( as Rightly verified bay kaiser Tufail in this Article )

If you lied once, God knows how many lies you have under your sleeves.

F-16 not used in offense but defence. Keywords to help your overthinking. And speaking of the lies, you may have to go through relevant threads and you will find a good list of the same. Allow me to copy my own post from another thread with additional information due to non-stop lies......

I have some pictorial presentation and references of what Indians been doing throughout such an episode of losses, losses and only losses but never saved their face.

• It started with stolen pictures when Planet Earth has to intervene & expose,
• then went on to share an under construction building which too was exposed,
• then came the whole set of claim that IAF never cross LoC but used SOW,
• then it was made before public that IAF couldn't reach the point due to heavy wind in opposite direction,
• then came Indian DM openly/on the record relying on social media & random pictures,
• then came the claim that India did not intend to cause casualties rather delivered the message,
• then again there are casualties,
• then Spice is a bomb which in fact not the case,
• then claimed that Spice is a whole set of AI which goes inside building and eliminates targets without causing any damage to the structure/burns,
• then came that this is not the place India hit,
• then came that there were clouds on the that day and missing imagery,
• then came that we did not attack infrastructure to minimize any possible civilian casualty and above all,
• when all the foreign observers are brought to the claimed impact point, area & shown the infrastructure; they all are biased & sided with Pakistan or doesn't have the intellect capacity like India.
• and now it is about that one Spice PGM did not leave the aircraft because of a drift in the inertial navigation system.

I have been saying this before and I will repeat that such kind of destruction & casualties in area as such which is not a Military Zone/Cantt, its not possible to hide anything especially in this day & age of Mobile Phones everywhere.

If any Indian wants to vote Modi, no issue but at-least spare us from all this in good faith and for the sake of humanity.

The list of Indian lies continues & I can recount very few here due to unlimited of them.

• PAF used jamming/EW tactics.
• Anhinandan couldn't listen to ground control hence, went inside Pakistan.
• Radar imagery shows Abhinandan in Mirpur but he was shot down in Bhimbir and arrested there.
• AWACS were at changeover/Turn around shift but images? really.
• IAF had the so-called electronic reading of PAF F-16 but interestingly, couldn't recognize their own MI-17V5 in Budgam.
• Comms jammed/EW active that couldn't recognize their own MI-17 heli but recorded all this that too when AWACS were not there (Hindustan Times reported).
• Pakistan recovered all 4 AAM of MIG-21 from its debris and there is no counter argument instead, IAF keeps repeating drama based upon lies.
• They heard Pakistan Military comms but Abhinandan & IAF Ground Control remained totally deaf & found dumb.
• Only two slides from IAF Radar being shared but excuse is made due to security reasons. How could it be a security reason when PAF fleet is complete as all F-16s are accounted for by foreign source.
• It took almost 7 weeks for IAF to come up with what? Just couple of AWACS radar images & readings which more seems to be a good CGI work than real time data recording.
• IAF found a piece of AMRAAM & claimed the downing which ended with that India only highlights the use of F-16 only.
• Never knew of IAF could confirm that whether Abhinandan fired at F-16 or it was a ground fire. Neither B.S Dhanoa was sure nor their own briefings. (Check attachments in following post).
• On the same day, one Indian channel reported that a Sukho Su-30 is shot down by F-16. The news vanished and Indians retracted that an F-16 was shot down by Sukhoi. Ok and later, it was actually MiG-21 that shot down F-16. I mean how much they want to shoot down at once while IAF getting shot down on that day one after another.
• Interestingly, the then Chief Dhanoa put everything on Abhinandan and that ill fated MiG-21. When asked who shot down F-16, said Abhinandan. When asked, where is the proff, said with MiG-21 flight data recorder etc. When asked how to prove that, said MiG-21 is with Pakistanis. Really?

It is literally takes such stamina to lie continuously but I will give it to Modi propaganda house for being consistent & turning Indian Military into a political office for election campaign.

Wait a minute as . Undecided.

• Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
• BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
• IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
• Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without crater damage & eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
• Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
• Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
• Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
• PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
• India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
• MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
• MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
• Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
• All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
• No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
• An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
• Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
• Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
• F-16 were used. US Mistake.
• SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
• SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
• Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
• Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
• ABP Indian News Channel interviews witnesses, acknowledges the crash of SU-30 MKI on 27th Feb, 2019 in Sher Makri area of Bhawani B, IoK. Indian News channel mistake.

 

[Vortex]

Dont worry...let PAF worry and you sleep. That's their job and they are good at it

I know they are best and I can sleep but still even being far from my country, I’m worrying about the land where the most important relative is buried.

But thank you for your valuable reply.

 

[PradoTLC]

So in effect the bar has just been raised but the threat level is palapbly there.

the bar is raised for them.... high enough for them not to make the jump.

with Pak-China military ties Pakistan wont be fighting a lone.. and india if it has any brains they would realise US coming to save india's sorry arse is just a wet dream

2. F16s were used ( As per this Article ) which means DG ISPR Lied ( and mentioned that NO F16s were used ) :

he is refering to the strike package.. see the press conferance again...

further the next day both pilots who shot the IAF planes were identifed... their names were mentioned in the parliment both were known PAF viper pilots.. F-16 use was never denied in fact celeibrated. only the willy nilly indians tried in vain to complain to the americans about the use. Pakistan didnt care either way

only india did the shameless lying that day.....and worse for its friends were embarrassed by it's stupid lies.