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Lebanon becomes first Arab country to legalise cannabis for medical use

sammuel

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Lebanon becomes first Arab country to legalise cannabis for medical use


Decision may offer economic incentives for debt-ridden state


The decision, which makes Lebanon the first Arab country to legalise marijuana growing, offers economic incentives for the debt-ridden state.

It makes the state the sole proprietor for trading cannabis, which has been grown illicitly for decades in Bekaa, in the east of the country.

Lebanon's Parliament approved the bill in its session on Tuesday, despite opposition from Hezbollah representatives.

Hezbollah's allies in the government, including representatives of President Michel Aoun and Speaker Nabih Berri, supported the decision.

2020-04-21T190232Z_1370342589_RC279G9K6Z6B_RTRMADP_3_LEBANON-CRISIS-CANNABIS.JPG


A farmer is seen in a cannabis field in the Yammouneh area west of Baalbek, Lebanon, August 13, 2018.Reuters, file

A study by the global consultancy company McKinsey in 2018 recommended the move as a way to revitalise the Lebanese economy.

It estimated that it could generate as much as $1 billion (Dh3.67bn) in revenue a year, Bloomberg reported.

The UN Office on Drugs and Crime ranked Lebanon in 2018 as one of the world's top five producers of cannabis.

Firas Maksad, a policy analyst and professor at George Washington University in the US, said for the move to be successful, a lot would rely on implementation.

“If regulated and taxed properly, this is a net positive for Lebanon,” Mr Maksad told The National.

But the decision was a reversal of policy.

“It is important to note that Lebanon spent many millions of foreign assistance dollars in the nineties to fight cannabis farming in the Bekaa,” Mr Maksad said.

He said that Hezbollah’s public opposition to the bill might be only posturing.

“Hezbollah took a principled position against it given the party's claimed Islamic credentials, but practically it signalled to its allies that they can vote for the legislation,” Mr Maksad said.

The party has strong presence in the Bekaa Valley, where most of the cultivation occurs


https://www.thenational.ae/world/me...legalise-cannabis-for-medical-use-1.1009334#2
 
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Lebanon becomes first Arab country to legalise cannabis for medical use


Decision may offer economic incentives for debt-ridden state


The decision, which makes Lebanon the first Arab country to legalise marijuana growing, offers economic incentives for the debt-ridden state.

It makes the state the sole proprietor for trading cannabis, which has been grown illicitly for decades in Bekaa, in the east of the country.

Lebanon's Parliament approved the bill in its session on Tuesday, despite opposition from Hezbollah representatives.

Hezbollah's allies in the government, including representatives of President Michel Aoun and Speaker Nabih Berri, supported the decision.

2020-04-21T190232Z_1370342589_RC279G9K6Z6B_RTRMADP_3_LEBANON-CRISIS-CANNABIS.JPG


A farmer is seen in a cannabis field in the Yammouneh area west of Baalbek, Lebanon, August 13, 2018.Reuters, file

A study by the global consultancy company McKinsey in 2018 recommended the move as a way to revitalise the Lebanese economy.

It estimated that it could generate as much as $1 billion (Dh3.67bn) in revenue a year, Bloomberg reported.

The UN Office on Drugs and Crime ranked Lebanon in 2018 as one of the world's top five producers of cannabis.

Firas Maksad, a policy analyst and professor at George Washington University in the US, said for the move to be successful, a lot would rely on implementation.

“If regulated and taxed properly, this is a net positive for Lebanon,” Mr Maksad told The National.

But the decision was a reversal of policy.

“It is important to note that Lebanon spent many millions of foreign assistance dollars in the nineties to fight cannabis farming in the Bekaa,” Mr Maksad said.

He said that Hezbollah’s public opposition to the bill might be only posturing.

“Hezbollah took a principled position against it given the party's claimed Islamic credentials, but practically it signalled to its allies that they can vote for the legislation,” Mr Maksad said.

The party has strong presence in the Bekaa Valley, where most of the cultivation occurs


https://www.thenational.ae/world/me...legalise-cannabis-for-medical-use-1.1009334#2
What on earth have you done, Sammuel?
Now we have to bear new kind of trolling regarding Lebnon harvesting and selling marijuana for crappy addiction causing drugs. No one will for God sake look once into the potential medicinal properties of marijuana such as:

THC or tetrahydrocannabinolis
the psychoactive compound in marijuana. It is responsible for the "high" people feel. There are two man-made drugs called dronabinol (Marinol) and nabilone (Cesamet) that are synthetic forms of THC. They are FDA-approved to prevent nausea and vomiting in people receiving chemotherapy.

CBD or cannabidiol is another compound in marijuana that is not psychoactive. CBD is thought to be responsible for the majority of the medical benefits.

Epidiolex is a CBD oil extract that is undergoing clinical trials for epilepsy.

THC:CBD: Nabiximols (Sativex) is a specific plant extract with an equal ratio of THC:CBD. It is approved as a drug in the UK and elsewhere in Europe for the treatment of multiple sclerosis, spasticity, neuropathic pain, overactive bladder and other indications.

Medical marijuana products are available with a huge range of THC and CBD concentrations. Expert opinion states that 10mg of THC should be considered "one serving" and a person new to medical marijuana should inhale or consume no more until they know their individual response.

Ref: https://www.medicinenet.com/medical_marijuana_medical_cannabis/article.htm

Kindly use this thread for discussing chemical structure and properties of Marijuana and potential properties of it's derivatives. Also, discuss the structure of derivatives extracted from marijuana compounds.
In addition to that , you all can use this thread that how & why Lebnese government has taken such decision & that too in either positive note or constructive criticism.
Just like wine is Haram but alcohol is used in sensitizer. This does not make sanitizers Haram.
Please use this thread for meaningful purposes rather than bashing or giving self proclaimed fatwas.
Regards
 
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facepalm-meme-uss-arizona-scale-meme-thumbnail.jpg


but since alcohol is allowed in some countries.. it makes no sence not to allow cannabis.. the reality is alcohol is much worser and more of a filthy thing wich is very destructive.. and I never saw someone going to abuse his wife and children after he had too much cannabis.. we may say no one on earth did voilence on cannabis only..

but better do not allow any of them..
 
. .
It's for medicinal use just like cough syrups have ethanol. All religions are against abuse not use and that safe guards against the pitfall of addiction. Many such compounds are also used in treating severe mental disorders as well and medically used in extreme cases for instance, morphine (derived from the afeem or opium plant) is extremely important in treating chronic pain cases and managing pain from trauma; however, the same compounds can be made into heroin as well. It's handled by professionals and it's not the same as recreational use.

Given that, I think that the post may have been made to flame an ethnic/religious troll fest instead but why? What's up with everyone and trying to politicize everything into something damaging. Would you mind if the morphine used to treat a family member of yours or your community in extreme pain was derived from a place which had an Arab farmer and vice versa?
~

Lebanon becomes first Arab country to legalise cannabis for medical use


Decision may offer economic incentives for debt-ridden state


The decision, which makes Lebanon the first Arab country to legalise marijuana growing, offers economic incentives for the debt-ridden state.

It makes the state the sole proprietor for trading cannabis, which has been grown illicitly for decades in Bekaa, in the east of the country.

Lebanon's Parliament approved the bill in its session on Tuesday, despite opposition from Hezbollah representatives.

Hezbollah's allies in the government, including representatives of President Michel Aoun and Speaker Nabih Berri, supported the decision.

2020-04-21T190232Z_1370342589_RC279G9K6Z6B_RTRMADP_3_LEBANON-CRISIS-CANNABIS.JPG


A farmer is seen in a cannabis field in the Yammouneh area west of Baalbek, Lebanon, August 13, 2018.Reuters, file

A study by the global consultancy company McKinsey in 2018 recommended the move as a way to revitalise the Lebanese economy.

It estimated that it could generate as much as $1 billion (Dh3.67bn) in revenue a year, Bloomberg reported.

The UN Office on Drugs and Crime ranked Lebanon in 2018 as one of the world's top five producers of cannabis.

Firas Maksad, a policy analyst and professor at George Washington University in the US, said for the move to be successful, a lot would rely on implementation.

“If regulated and taxed properly, this is a net positive for Lebanon,” Mr Maksad told The National.

But the decision was a reversal of policy.

“It is important to note that Lebanon spent many millions of foreign assistance dollars in the nineties to fight cannabis farming in the Bekaa,” Mr Maksad said.

He said that Hezbollah’s public opposition to the bill might be only posturing.

“Hezbollah took a principled position against it given the party's claimed Islamic credentials, but practically it signalled to its allies that they can vote for the legislation,” Mr Maksad said.

The party has strong presence in the Bekaa Valley, where most of the cultivation occurs


https://www.thenational.ae/world/me...legalise-cannabis-for-medical-use-1.1009334#2
 
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Can cannabis alter mind like alcohol or heroin does ? If not, then it is not Haram. In fact cannabis helps in concentrations based on various research.
 
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One of the main income sources of Hezbollah for years so not surprised that this decision has been taken by the Lebanese "parliament".

Syria should annex Lebanon again anyway.

In fact we need an Arab leader that will annex the entire Arab world and unite it again. Long overdue.

It's for medicinal use just like cough syrups have ethanol. All religions are against abuse not use and that safe guards against the pitfall of addiction. Many such compounds are also used in treating severe mental disorders as well and medically used in extreme cases for instance, morphine (derived from the afeem or opium plant) is extremely important in treating chronic pain cases and managing pain from trauma; however, the same compounds can be made into heroin as well. It's handled by professionals and it's not the same as recreational use.

Given that, I think that the post may have been made to flame an ethnic/religious troll fest instead but why? What's up with everyone and trying to politicize everything into something damaging. Would you mind if the morphine used to treat a family member of yours or your community in extreme pain was derived from a place which had an Arab farmer and vice versa?

Most people don't use it for medicinal purposes.:lol:

I invite you to visit Beirut at night or the Biqa Valley.

Cannabis farmers in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley fight government push for legalisation
By Middle East correspondent Adam Harvey in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley
Posted 19 Oct 2018, 9:34pm

PHOTO: Abu Jafaar in his cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)
RELATED STORY: 'My new dealer is the PM': Marijuana is legal across Canada now
A plan to legalise cannabis production in Lebanon faces resistance from some of the growers themselves.

Key points:
  • Farmers see legalisation as the government stealing their revenue
  • Move to legalise follows consultant report into ailing Lebanese economy
  • Research into medicinal value of Bekaa Valley cannabis could help legalisation


In the eastern Bekaa Valley, where the crop has been cultivated for centuries, the local farmers are suspicious of government efforts to create a legal cannabis industry.

"We view the legalisation of hashish as theft from our people," says one grower, Abu Jafaar.

"As this crop generates a lot of revenues, so our politicians want to legalise it to steal that production."

Speaker of the Lebanese Parliament Nabih Berri has said the Lebanese government is preparing legislation that will allow the cultivation of cannabis for medical purposes.

The move followed a report by consultants McKinsey into the ailing Lebanese economy, which has one of the highest debt-to-GDP ratios in the world.

The McKinsey report recommended 150 ways to improve the economy, including industrial-scale construction of pre-fabricated homes for Syrian refugees and expanded international markets for avocados and cannabis.

PHOTO: Abu Jafarr's cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley, Lebanon. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in the eastern Bekaa for generations. The government raids plantations irregularly but the area is under the control of Shia militias, including Hezbollah, which tolerate the cannabis plantations.

Abu Jafaar says he has around 30 arrest warrants out against him. He carries an AK-47 with him in case of government raids, and says he will not be handing over his cannabis harvest to the authorities.

"If the solution to avoid raids is to let them steal our money, well we won't accept that. I work in danger every day for the money. What we want is that they let us grow it and not raid us anymore."

PHOTO: Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in Bekaa for generations. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He feared his profits would be skimmed off by local officials.

His views were echoed by other growers who spoke to the ABC but did not want to be quoted.

Regardless of the view of these growers, research is being undertaken that may assist the legalisation process. Dr Mohamad Mroueh, a professor of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacology at the Lebanese American University, is studying Bekaa cannabis.

"This is very new," he said. "We've only been doing research for a couple of months. So far I've prepared the cannabis oil from a legal sample that we've received from the government and now we're doing the pre-clinical testing against inflammation and against various types of cancer cells."

PHOTO: Dr Mohamad Mroueh is studying Bekka cannabis. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He's also making a chemical analysis of the cannabis oil to work out the unique properties of Bekaa cannabis.

"The climatic conditions in Lebanon, the growing conditions, the amount of rainfall, the sunlight, the temperature, the humidity, the type of soil — all make a difference in the chemical constituents of a plant."

Whatever the reason, Bekaa Valley grower Abu Jafaar has no doubt about the quality of the local product.

"That's the best hashish in the world," he says, gesturing towards the field of chest-high plants.

"There is no such quality elsewhere in the world, except Afghanistan, where you have a similar quality. You smoke this hashish once and you will never forget it. And then you'll want to smoke it every day."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ght-government-push-for-legalisation/10398140
 
.
One of the main income sources of Hezbollah for years so not surprised that this decision has been taken by the Lebanese "parliament".

Syria should annex Lebanon again anyway.

In fact we need an Arab leader that will annex the entire Arab world and unite it again. Long overdue.



Most people don't use it for medicinal purposes.:lol:

I invite you to visit Beirut at night or the Biqa Valley.

Cannabis farmers in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley fight government push for legalisation
By Middle East correspondent Adam Harvey in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley
Posted 19 Oct 2018, 9:34pm

PHOTO: Abu Jafaar in his cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)
RELATED STORY: 'My new dealer is the PM': Marijuana is legal across Canada now
A plan to legalise cannabis production in Lebanon faces resistance from some of the growers themselves.

Key points:
  • Farmers see legalisation as the government stealing their revenue
  • Move to legalise follows consultant report into ailing Lebanese economy
  • Research into medicinal value of Bekaa Valley cannabis could help legalisation


In the eastern Bekaa Valley, where the crop has been cultivated for centuries, the local farmers are suspicious of government efforts to create a legal cannabis industry.

"We view the legalisation of hashish as theft from our people," says one grower, Abu Jafaar.

"As this crop generates a lot of revenues, so our politicians want to legalise it to steal that production."

Speaker of the Lebanese Parliament Nabih Berri has said the Lebanese government is preparing legislation that will allow the cultivation of cannabis for medical purposes.

The move followed a report by consultants McKinsey into the ailing Lebanese economy, which has one of the highest debt-to-GDP ratios in the world.

The McKinsey report recommended 150 ways to improve the economy, including industrial-scale construction of pre-fabricated homes for Syrian refugees and expanded international markets for avocados and cannabis.

PHOTO: Abu Jafarr's cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley, Lebanon. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in the eastern Bekaa for generations. The government raids plantations irregularly but the area is under the control of Shia militias, including Hezbollah, which tolerate the cannabis plantations.

Abu Jafaar says he has around 30 arrest warrants out against him. He carries an AK-47 with him in case of government raids, and says he will not be handing over his cannabis harvest to the authorities.

"If the solution to avoid raids is to let them steal our money, well we won't accept that. I work in danger every day for the money. What we want is that they let us grow it and not raid us anymore."

PHOTO: Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in Bekaa for generations. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He feared his profits would be skimmed off by local officials.

His views were echoed by other growers who spoke to the ABC but did not want to be quoted.

Regardless of the view of these growers, research is being undertaken that may assist the legalisation process. Dr Mohamad Mroueh, a professor of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacology at the Lebanese American University, is studying Bekaa cannabis.

"This is very new," he said. "We've only been doing research for a couple of months. So far I've prepared the cannabis oil from a legal sample that we've received from the government and now we're doing the pre-clinical testing against inflammation and against various types of cancer cells."

PHOTO: Dr Mohamad Mroueh is studying Bekka cannabis. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He's also making a chemical analysis of the cannabis oil to work out the unique properties of Bekaa cannabis.

"The climatic conditions in Lebanon, the growing conditions, the amount of rainfall, the sunlight, the temperature, the humidity, the type of soil — all make a difference in the chemical constituents of a plant."

Whatever the reason, Bekaa Valley grower Abu Jafaar has no doubt about the quality of the local product.

"That's the best hashish in the world," he says, gesturing towards the field of chest-high plants.

"There is no such quality elsewhere in the world, except Afghanistan, where you have a similar quality. You smoke this hashish once and you will never forget it. And then you'll want to smoke it every day."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ght-government-push-for-legalisation/10398140

images (13).jpeg
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images (12).jpeg
the-syrian-social-nationalist-party-member-starter-pack-is-a-34844033.png


Did someone say Greater Syria
 
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Greater Syria/Sham is a legacy of the Umayyad Caliphate/Empire.

iyIEOJj.png


That SNNP map is similar to various periods of the Assyrian Empire. Assyrians were a Semitic people that migrated from Arabia.

SadheeSYRIA-ar.jpg


Anyway I fully support regional Arab integration and for regional Arab political blocs to emerge. So obviously Syria and Lebanon should be a part of the same entity again. Federal or non-federal, it does not matter, as long as political, economic, military etc. integration increases.

BTW cannabis is for *******

The real deal is qat/khat.

B-Zel2bCIAARskf.jpg


In all seriousness, If I had absolute power, I would burn all the cannabis and qat fields. Even in KSA the authorities turn a blind eye to extreme South (regions neighboring Yemen) where some mountain villages engage in qat farming and chew it as an ancient social custom. Northern Yemen (Houthis stronghold today) is completely consumed by it. Khat plants require a lot of water so it destroys the local economy and agricultural sector as well. People shifted from coffee, tea, fruit/vegetable production to khat production. Things are slowly moving in the right direction but more needs to be done.

When it comes to substances I have zero tolerance for that filth.
 
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One of the main income sources of Hezbollah for years so not surprised that this decision has been taken by the Lebanese "parliament".

Syria should annex Lebanon again anyway.

In fact we need an Arab leader that will annex the entire Arab world and unite it again. Long overdue.



Most people don't use it for medicinal purposes.:lol:

I invite you to visit Beirut at night or the Biqa Valley.

Cannabis farmers in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley fight government push for legalisation
By Middle East correspondent Adam Harvey in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley
Posted 19 Oct 2018, 9:34pm

PHOTO: Abu Jafaar in his cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)
RELATED STORY: 'My new dealer is the PM': Marijuana is legal across Canada now
A plan to legalise cannabis production in Lebanon faces resistance from some of the growers themselves.

Key points:
  • Farmers see legalisation as the government stealing their revenue
  • Move to legalise follows consultant report into ailing Lebanese economy
  • Research into medicinal value of Bekaa Valley cannabis could help legalisation


In the eastern Bekaa Valley, where the crop has been cultivated for centuries, the local farmers are suspicious of government efforts to create a legal cannabis industry.

"We view the legalisation of hashish as theft from our people," says one grower, Abu Jafaar.

"As this crop generates a lot of revenues, so our politicians want to legalise it to steal that production."

Speaker of the Lebanese Parliament Nabih Berri has said the Lebanese government is preparing legislation that will allow the cultivation of cannabis for medical purposes.

The move followed a report by consultants McKinsey into the ailing Lebanese economy, which has one of the highest debt-to-GDP ratios in the world.

The McKinsey report recommended 150 ways to improve the economy, including industrial-scale construction of pre-fabricated homes for Syrian refugees and expanded international markets for avocados and cannabis.

PHOTO: Abu Jafarr's cannabis fields in the Bekka Valley, Lebanon. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in the eastern Bekaa for generations. The government raids plantations irregularly but the area is under the control of Shia militias, including Hezbollah, which tolerate the cannabis plantations.

Abu Jafaar says he has around 30 arrest warrants out against him. He carries an AK-47 with him in case of government raids, and says he will not be handing over his cannabis harvest to the authorities.

"If the solution to avoid raids is to let them steal our money, well we won't accept that. I work in danger every day for the money. What we want is that they let us grow it and not raid us anymore."

PHOTO: Cannabis has been grown openly but illegally in Bekaa for generations. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He feared his profits would be skimmed off by local officials.

His views were echoed by other growers who spoke to the ABC but did not want to be quoted.

Regardless of the view of these growers, research is being undertaken that may assist the legalisation process. Dr Mohamad Mroueh, a professor of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacology at the Lebanese American University, is studying Bekaa cannabis.

"This is very new," he said. "We've only been doing research for a couple of months. So far I've prepared the cannabis oil from a legal sample that we've received from the government and now we're doing the pre-clinical testing against inflammation and against various types of cancer cells."

PHOTO: Dr Mohamad Mroueh is studying Bekka cannabis. (ABC News: Aaron Hollett)


He's also making a chemical analysis of the cannabis oil to work out the unique properties of Bekaa cannabis.

"The climatic conditions in Lebanon, the growing conditions, the amount of rainfall, the sunlight, the temperature, the humidity, the type of soil — all make a difference in the chemical constituents of a plant."

Whatever the reason, Bekaa Valley grower Abu Jafaar has no doubt about the quality of the local product.

"That's the best hashish in the world," he says, gesturing towards the field of chest-high plants.

"There is no such quality elsewhere in the world, except Afghanistan, where you have a similar quality. You smoke this hashish once and you will never forget it. And then you'll want to smoke it every day."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ght-government-push-for-legalisation/10398140

Moroccan one is among the best. Morocco is another jewel in the Arab world.
 
. .
Moroccan one is among the best. Morocco is another jewel in the Arab world.

Moroccan Hashish is mostly the Hashish that enters Europe and it has the best reputation of them all along with Lebanese. Usually this trade and distribution is controlled by Moroccan gangs and networks. Spain for instance is flooded with Moroccan Hashish. France and Netherlands too. As long as there is a profitable market for it (Europe) this illegal trade will continue and local farmers will cultivate it rather than actual edible agricultural products whose market price is much cheaper.

Not much different from what we see in Afghanistan, Mexico, Peru etc. and the existing opium and coca production.

Harvesting cannabis plants for a purely medicinal use, in the perfect world, should be regulated by the state only and profits from said production should be distributed for the health care system in each respective country by the state. Of course that is unlikely to ever occur in practice.

Given the increasing degeneracy of the Muslim youth and world as a whole nowadays, such laws, will just open up a pandora box where eventually all the ills from the liberal West will be copied. We already see it in a Muslim majority country like Turkey (albeit heavily influenced by the West in the past 150 + years) where prostitution is legal, alcohol, homosexuality etc. Talk of a third gender (like in the West) will probably reach Turkey eventually as well and all the other ills of the liberal West.

Simpletons here will scream and cry "Wahhabi" but I don't care. My views are irrespective of religious beliefs and besides my views are shared by millions of Europeans as well that have nothing to do with Islam.

I stick to the scientific/technological/economic exchange/field/welfare states (GCC doing better on this front than most European/Western states anyway) and leave everything else as it is not worthy to copy.

Maybe with the exception of open political discourse but that was once something that Arabs could pride ourselves on when Europe were in its dark age during the Middle Ages. A return to that would be a good thing as well but it has nothing to do with the West as such.

Algeria>Morocco

Both countries and people are great overall. Each country and people have their idiots and bad elements. No need to favor country x over country y due to politics when never visiting said countries and nothing very little.

Nowadays, due to the internet and google, everyone pretends to be an expert about everything but in reality ignorance is still extreme by large in all spheres of the society.

I would be a complete and utter idiot if I based my perception of Pakistan and Pakistanis based on PDF alone. No offense. Or any country or people for that matter.

This forum/the internet is full of people with an agenda and bias. I remember some ridiculous thread about KSA being posted here (supposedly) where 10-15 carefully cherrypicked photos from KSA (turned out to be of Afro-Arabs from Yemen in the Rub' al-Khali desert, lol) were somehow propagandized as even remotely representative for KSA 100 + years ago. A region of the world that is home to some of the oldest artifacts on the planet and cities. Just a joke but that was the agenda created to somehow showcase the reality before oil.

Which is funny as 99.99% of the achievements of Arabs were accomplished millennia/centuries before oil was even discovered.:lol:

But this is PDF/Internet for you. Some people with inferiority complexes, obsession etc. need an outlet to venture their frustrations in behind their small computer screens to feel better apparently.
 
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