Leaked NATO Report Breaks News of Afghanistan's Incapable Army

[GiannKall]

!!!! That's the best you could come up with? Just blaming the US for everything while Pakistan's main defense takes place with 80% of the American weapon systems and training???? Way to go, to be a friend, partner or an ally (however you want to call that term).

Just for the reference and correctness, the Afghan army wasn't created by the US. They existed for decades. Now its not the US's fault that the Army is incapable and their troops would rather sell their M-16's and other weapons to Talibans terrorists for various reasons, including the drug money!! The US isn't everyone's father. We went to Afghanistan strictly for our own purposes because we got attacked. Had the fukkers in Afghanistan handed over OBL, a lot of chaos could've been avoided. So how Afghans want to carry on with their lives or their country, isn't our issue and shouldn't be. Had they not attacked our country, we had no business being in Afghanistan!!

I'll end my post with POTUS's quote from yesterday so you know why we went to Afganistan and things can work in a straight line in your mind because you clearly are very off Mr.

"If you doubt America's commitment -- or mine -- to see that justice is done, just ask Osama bin Laden" (POTUS, The State of the Union Address, 2016)

The problem though is that the American government upgraded their "war on terror" to colonialism. Bush administration was never interested to just kill OBL and end it there. They were interested on starting an American century of colonialism were just like their European cousins in the 19th century, the Americans would go from Afghanistan to Iraq and other places, overthrow regimes and do "nation building".

And a questiono you believe it was a coincidence that OBL was killed when Obama decided to withdraw NATO forces from Afghanistan? I dont. OBL was imprisoned by Pakistanis and Americans knew were he was residing. As soon as they decided that nation building cannot work, they killed OBL to use it as an excuse to claim that "mission accomplished"

 

[libertycall]

The problem though is that the American government upgraded their "war on terror" to colonialism. Bush administration was never interested to just kill OBL and end it there. They were interested on starting an American century of colonialism were just like their European cousins in the 19th century, the Americans would go from Afghanistan to Iraq and other places, overthrow regimes and do "nation building".

And a questiono you believe it was a coincidence that OBL was killed when Obama decided to withdraw NATO forces from Afghanistan? I dont. OBL was imprisoned by Pakistanis and Americans knew were he was residing. As soon as they decided that nation building cannot work, they killed OBL to use it as an excuse to claim that "mission accomplished"

I'm not even going to bother replying to viper-shiper sahib since that was an epic rant including claims about language skills.

Nail on the head from GiannKall.

It's a well known fact that the US government was funding groups in Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion took place, with the express purpose of forcing the USSR into invading. I don't know anyone who has asked whom they were funding before the invasion. I suggest that the answer is Ahmad Shah Massoud.

Massoud would be the obvious choice because the US wanted to break up the USSR and Massoud as a Tajikistani had ethnic and linguistic links with Tajikistan which was then a part of the USSR. It would have been difficult for Pashtuns to carry out attacks inside Soviet territory.

If you read any of the history books, what the Pakistani army notes is that they had constant complaints from the US side saying they wanted to provide more weaponry to Massoud. Equally the Pakistanis were determined that this should not happen. That's probably because Zia realized that if Massoud went too far and embarrassed the Soviet leadership with attacks on USSR soil that they would respond with an invasion of Pakistan itself.

The US administration appears to have begun its approach to Afghanistan on the basis of reading colonial era books by British authors, and maintained that attitude in all of its interactions with Afghanistan. Unfortunately nobody in the US administration engaged in a critical analysis of those texts and thus fell directly into the trap of the colonial mindset, and worse believed colonial propaganda represented reality. Just to give the most obvious example, the British Raj during its initial years was terrified by the threat from the Afghan empire which was one of the few which could have driven the British Raj out if it had combined its forces with the Sikhs. Thus the British Raj invented the myth that 'Afghans were tribals, and not a state'. If anyone in the British Raj wondered how a group of 'tribals' had ruled the subcontinent for more than 2,000 years, they kept their views to private correspondence--which was burned in a massive fire before the British Raj departed.

US policy thanks to these blunders approached Pashtuns as if they were a disorganized group who had no idea of statecraft while the Tajikistanis and Mongols and others in their view could be used to create a new Afghanistan which they would dominate. These views were helped in part by Washington relying on Iranian Shiites with a soft-spot for the regime of the Ayatollahs e.g. Vali Nasr. This was understandable since after 9/11 Sunni academics had been effectively side-lined as Washington wanted to hear things with which it agreed.

The failure to understand how Pashtuns would react to an attempt to hand their lands to a group of Tajikistanis and the reliance upon 'good news' propaganda from the colonial British Raj, as well as Iranian Shia academics with their own interests led to a disaster for the US administration.

Oddly this mirrors the disaster in Iraq, whose invasion was carried out based on the advice of the Iraqi Shia academic Ahmad Chalabi.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

looking at their behavior explained by the American , I understand why some Indians find themselves so close to Northern Alliance

CAN'T understand
Comment in reference to a thread based on that video where some Indians were actually posting excuses and justification for Northern alliance

 

[libertycall]

CAN'T understand
Comment in reference to a thread based on that video where some Indians were actually posting excuses and justification for Northern alliance

The popularity of the 'Northern Alliance' and the alleged incredible military skills of Massoud can be worked out from the fact that before the US invasion, they had control of less than 10% of Afghanistan. And it wasn't as if the Russians, Iranians, Indians, and 'Stans were shy of providing them with military equipment.

 

[Manidabest]

the problem is that ethnically afghanistan is very divided ...and nobody trusts no1 in afghanistan

 

[EAK]

Anyone who hid or aided OBL is according to international law a terrorist. Or do you only apply that and the drone bombings to poor Pashtuns and not the people who actually run Pakistan? Care to explain why Dr Khattak is still in prison on the orders of the Pakistani Generals for helping to expose the scam?

As for me being bold...

“Former director general of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Lt-Gen (retd) Asad Durrani has said that Pakistan had 'most likely' revealed the position of former Al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden to the US, a report published on the

In an interview on Al Jazeera's Head to Head show, the former ISI chief cast doubts over the intelligence agency's official line that it was unaware of the Al Qaeda chief's whereabouts prior to his killing.

“I cannot say exactly what happened but my assessment […] was it is quite possible that they [the ISI] did not know but it was more probable that they did. And the idea was that at the right time, his location would be revealed. And the right time would have been, when you can get the necessary quid pro quo — if you have someone like Osama bin Laden, you are not going to simply hand him over to the United States," the former head of Pakistan's premier intelligence agency told the host of the show.”

The above is on the Dawn website. So according to a former head of ISI, the Pakistani Generals hid the news of OBL's location, even while they took BILLIONS of dollars from the US taxpayer and blamed Pashtuns for hiding him. Tell me that they would do the same if Lahoris and Urdu speakers were involved.

And it's 'advice' not 'advise'.

no Pakistani blamed Pashtun's aka Pakistani's .. so stick to the topic..

 

[libertycall]

no Pakistani blamed Pashtun's aka Pakistani's .. so stick to the topic..

This patti you should teach to someone else. I can't link the page so it's from the NPR on October 13 2011 and is an interview with the Muhajir mayor of Karachi--just important to mention that for the irony.

'Syed Mustafa Kamal, considers these ethnic Pashtuns a threat. In his eyes, they are plotting to take over the city.

"These Pashtuns means like fundamentalist — religiously fundamentalist, religiously extremist," Kamal says. "They are coming in. When it comes to ethnicity, when it comes to Islam they all are ... the same."

The mayor gives a tour of the area, driving past squatter neighborhoods and Islamic schools. He passes the area where the journalist Daniel Pearl was found slain. And he points out the window at a bearded man.

"The man who's coming in front of you ... look at him, look at his face," Kamal says.

The mayor says he is convinced that Pashtuns are planning the locations of the illegal housing settlements. He says they are choosing strategic spots that block his own plans for the city.

"It's a very strategic location, you see?" Kamal asks. "The superhighway is there. They can control the whole highway. ... They had a master plan before me. And they definitely have a master plan."'

 

[jhungary]

Here are my experience with ANP, ANA and my experience as a deployed soldier in Afghanistan during 2005-2006. You may not like what I have to say, but this is my first person feeling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The situation in Afghanistan is very complicate.

Most of the afghan I met during my tour have a very straight indication that they just want to live in peace and they don't care whether or not the Allies won or the Taliban won, as long as there are no fighting, that's what they want. And most of the time, being a part of ISAF, we won't push them as far south as the Taliban did, and hence one thing will happen, that's the population will more easily to coerce into helping the Taliban easily than helping ISAF or ANA.

On the other hand, ANA and ANP does not really care much about anyone, some time not even themselves, they operate on a level we will deemed too risky and too rude, they would smack around their own population, they don't really care about civilian in the line of fire and when the Taliban engage them, they will shot back without ID'ing the enemy first, simply because they don't really care, talked to a ANA commander once, what he said shock me, when I ask why they still use soft skin truck and don't use body armor. His reply is simply "if allah want me to die, it would be wrong to not die" so basically having armored vehicle and body armour basically ignoring the god's will.........And for the, if civilian were caught between the crossfire, that would be god's will too...

That translate to the population don't really trust the local government. And being ANA and ANP, they would have an edge that we ISAF guy lacking, and that's local knowledge, but if your local population does not even trust the ANA and ANP, then they are just us, only with worse training and worse equipment.

Problem is,at least until I left, there are no fix on the solution, People need to tip the scale on the problem and while we try to win heart and mind, all that is gonna go if the population does not even trust their own government. And then there are these bad seed within ANA/ANP rank, which you never gonna weed them out. anyhow. Problem is, Taliban used to control this country, anyone and everyone enlisted in the ANA and ANP would all be one way or another have some connection to Taliban, well, people say people can change, yes, [eoople do change, but all you need is for 1 or 2 of those people not to change, then you will get quite a mess on your hand.

On the other hand, ANA/ANP are a quite capable force, the recruit are highly motivated, and the command also did show potential, with proper training and equipment, they should be able to hold out against Taliban, but again, local population mistrust means they would always be an underdog. I would say even if you use ISAF troop,we can't work without local intel.

As far as I concern, wwhat we have been doing is training the structure of an armed force for a country, for that, we did a good job, I will give 80/100 on ISAF for it, but we had totally ignore the Armed Force/Government and Civilian population integration. For that we did nothing, and even if you can train a team of Rambo, it's of no use if they don't have the trust on the local population, especially when you are talking about insurgency. And that is why Afghanistan is failing at the moment.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Well rewind a few decades back, and same could be said about your allies in the same country. the sentence that did catch my eye was "taken billions of dollars from the west and has nothing to show for itself shifting all the blame over to", are there any similar precedence set,

So what options do we have, lets bring back the goo ole Taliban, and everything will be hunky dory.... As far as Northern Alliance is concerned, Pakistan played an active role in terminating the the only effective leadership it had, the man himself is on record about pakistan military's duplicity. You effectively aided and abetted the Mullah Omar Taliban's (not the mujhahideen) onslaught on kabul against the same incapable army (where you btw failed) Now the same NA that you couldn't break in Panjshir are incompetent. Great, they should fall back quite soon and you should get back your strategic depth. Shouldn't this be good news.

fixed the typo

no need to be defensive here.
one foot out of line and my friends pounce with their talons primed at me lol

comment is in reference to similar thread on the same subject where many Indian posters actually praised NA for its work as narrated by American Marine.

as far as the strategic depth is concerned ... its going to happen due to the atrocities of Northern alliance against the Afghan populations specially the harsh treatment of Pashtons. only for the first time, the Afghan taliban have made inroads into the North which was unthinkable.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Rampant drug use, split loyalties, high frontline casualty rates, low pay- low morale, no discipline, rife corruption, fighting a hidden enemy and sometimes in lands and for people they are disliked by.

Is it any wonder that the ANA had a massive desertion rate, and all these other issues?

Northern alliance is the biggest Con that has taken billions of dollars from the west and has nothing to show for itself shifting all the blame over to Pakistan.
its not that its ethnic army is incapable or unworthy.. it just doesn't see any motive to be good because its getting the money anyway. its leaders are caught with millions of dollars smuggling out of the country to UAE but nothing happens and America keeps paying them.
life is good for Northern alliance warlords

Seriously, this entire country has been run by the NA for a long time, the same rabble and monkeys who committed atrocities in the 90's were wearing suits and pocketing millions from foreign aid.

 

[libertycall]

Rampant drug use, split loyalties, high frontline casualty rates, low pay- low morale, no discipline, rife corruption, fighting a hidden enemy and sometimes in lands and for people they are disliked by.

Is it any wonder that the ANA had a massive desertion rate, and all these other issues?



Seriously, this entire country has been run by the NA for a long time, the same rabble and monkeys who committed atrocities in the 90's were wearing suits and pocketing millions from foreign aid.

Before the US invasion these are the advantages that the NA had:

1. Decades of combat experience
2. All the arms they wanted from the Russians, Indians, Iranians, and 'Stans
3. An airforce
4. Support from the Heroin mafia
5. Support from minority refugee/ethnic groups in the area to carry out all the atrocities they wanted against Pashtuns

What was the end result? Even being led by their supposed genius warlord Massoud they were chased out of the country and all the way to the Tajikistani border and left with barely 10% of territory. If they had lost the sort of numbers the Iraqi Sunnis lost in Iraq (circa 1.1 million) that would have been understandable. They didn't.

The fact is that the NA are hated not only by the majority native Afghans but also by the ethnic minorities from which they emerged such as the Tajikistanis and Uzbeks.

It may take a few years, or it may take a few decades but the result will be the same. Quite frankly the NA do not have what it takes to run let alone bring a nation together, and all the propaganda from the Putinists, RSS/BJP, and Levantine Ayatollahs and their cronies in Iran India or Washington won't change that.

 

[pakistani342]

That is true and I hope non Iranians could understand this.

@Khafee the other day when I referred to "lizard eating Arabs" I hope you get it what I meant.

@pakistani342 So boss what you say, what would be the results of any survey suppose when Taliban take over again? I think most of the Afghans would not favor Pakistan even the AT would have different stance on Pakistan this time but still they won't prefer India over Pakistan or could they?

mmm If I understood your question: what would Afghans' views on Pakistan be in the hypothetical situation that the Taliban were able to establish a government again in large swaths of Afghanistan and their ideology remained more or less what it is today?

My thinking on this point is reasonably simple: the hostility of Pakistan did not start in 1979 or 1996 or 2001 or 2003 -- it is much older. One can argue that it started before Pakistan existed as the concept of Pakistan is conflated with the Sikh Empire and the British Empire. It may have certainly been stoked by Pakistani missteps and Afghan elites and that, now, it has metastasized -- but the roots of this phenomenon are long and deep.

On this form @Sher Malang , @A-Team and other Afghans have argued that at some point the Afghans thought of Pakistan as a brother country [and not in the Kane/Able sense] but I would point out that it is not true. That feeling did not have any deep entrenchment in Afghan psyche. There is nothing in Afghanistan that is dedicated to Pakistan and Pakistanis.

The Taliban are as Afghan as Karzai, Ghani and Abdullah -- they hate Pakistan and Pakistanis just as much. So to answer your question nothing much will change. That is why Pakistan only supports the Taliban to the point that they are one faction that keeps Afghanistan divided and occupied by itself.

 

[pakistani342]

Hate to say I told you so :-(

Leaked NATO Report Breaks News of Afghanistan's Incapable Army
MIDDLE EAST
11:04 11.01.2016(updated 11:44 11.01.2016)

A secret NATO report brought to light by the German press reveals grave concerns about the security situation in Afghanistan, and how the Afghan army has exhibited lackluster performance despite billions of dollars of international investment.

Despite billions of dollars of investment the Afghan army is not ready for battle against the Taliban, who have surged in the past year, according to a secret NATO report seen by German magazine Der Spiegel.
"Altogether across the country, only one of 101 infantry battalions is classified as 'ready for battle' and 38 units have 'massive problems,'" the NATO report detailed, according to Spiegel.

"Ten battalions of around 600 soldiers are not operational at all,"wrote Spiegel.

"Particularly drastic is a report from the commander of the NATO mission, US General John Campbell, about the situation in the embattled South, where the Taliban have brought ever greater areas under their control."


General Campbell, who has led NATO's Resolute Support mission in Afghanistan since August 2014, said that of 17 battalions stationed in the provinces of Kabul and Kandahar, only 12 were battle-ready to a limited extent.

Kabul, in central Afghanistan, and Kandahar in the South are Afghanistan's two largest cities, and the resurgent Taliban has carried out attacks there in recent weeks.
It has claimed responsibility for a three suicide attacks in the Afghan capital last week that killed five civilians and injured at least 56. On December 9, scores of people were killed when the Taliban attacked Kandahar airport.

Contributing to the lack of readiness for battle, the NATO report also reveals the extent of the loss of troops, through their death or desertion from duty.

"Statistically, in 2015 the Afghan National Army (ANA) lost 22 soldiers every day. With more than 8,000 deaths in one year, the losses have risen by 42 percent in comparison with the previous year."

"Together with the high number of deserters who leave in frustration or defect to the Taliban, the army loses one third of its soldiers every year."

In December 2014, the US and NATO ended its International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) combat mission, which carried out operations against terrorists and provided training and assistance for the Afghan security forces.

Following the end of the ISAF mission, which was succeeded by NATO's smaller noncombat Resolute Support mission, the Taliban has retaken large areas of Afghanistan. It is currently in control of more territory than at any point since 2001, when the US-led invasion toppled the ruling group from power.


Leaked NATO Report Breaks News of Afghanistan's Incapable Army

 

[Khan_patriot]

I am just going to wait for some of my Indian friends to come over and blame Pakistan for this mess as well