LCA Tejas is inferior to JF-17 Thunder Block III: Chinese expert

[Zulfiqar]

We have 4+ squadron strength of F-16s (No. 9,11, 29/CCS e.t.c, 5 and No. 19).

Out of those majority of the F-16s are deployed in South. IIRC North is only covered by No. 9 and 29/CCS (Around 22-24 F-16s only to cover North and Center depending upon availability).

North is mostly covered by 3X Squadrons JF-17s.

They also beef up south/western sector.

This should give anyone the idea w.r.t how much JF-17s are deemed important considering majority of the North is covered by Thunders.

Block 3 when they come would be on another level (relative to present Block 2s).

 

[Eagle_Nest]

These "craps" are enough to put the Russian AD, including S-300/400, being operated by the Russian themselves into their places....

A single F-16 shot down two SUs in one shot as it's RADAR was off and BVR missiles were guided by the "link" from AWACs 100s of kms away from the border (all electronics are indigenous)...

Match these and then talk..

By the by, these stuffs are indeed from the "university kids", who are never short of hunger and enthusiasm for success, working day and night....

And, the following "mig-21 equivalents" are in the process of being made, and it won't take 40 years:


View attachment 617712

Tejas is like the Indian bachelors, ever in search for the brides with the right amount of dowry, forgetting about the certain conjugal performance parameters...

JF-17s are like the mad max Merts - ever ready to go at a moment's notice...​

Ahaha u just nailed him bro!

 

[Deino]

In the last financial year(2018), the HAL produced 41 new aircraft / helicopters and 98 new engines and has carried out overhaul of 213 aircraft / helicopters and 540 engines. HAL’s R&D projects are on track and are tailor made for the requirement of the armed forces, HAL said in a press release.Defense PSU HAL has recorded a turnover of Rs. 19,400(2.8 Billion $) crore for the financial year ended on March 31.

Is this tactic to divert from a simple question or a lack of reading comprehension??

How many MKIs and LCAs were produced last year?? Plain and simple for these two types only. Everything else does not matter.

JF-17 has no air combat history. Could not fire a single A2A missile on Feb 27, 2019 despite 6:1 numericla superiority.
Only 50 BLk 3 ordered whereas IAF has ordered 83 Tejas Mk1A.

-Meteor is far superior to PL-15. Pl-15 still uses older dual pulse prop whereas Meteor has far superior Ramjet.
PL-15 is only slightly superior to AIM-120D (35-40 km NEZ compared to 120Ds 35 km) wheread Meteor NEZ is 60-70 km.

And just to set the facts right: You are complaining about the JF-17's lack of capability to fire AAMs and compare fictional numbers.

Just plain and simple:

- How many FOC Tejas are delivered and in service, and how many Block 1 & 2 JF-17 are in service since when?
- How many Tejas Mk. 1A are flying and how many Block 3 JF-17s?

I find it simply shameful that you guys constantly mock about the limitations of the Block 1 & 2 in comparison to the "vastly superior Tejas Mk. 1A" and the low numbers of Block 3 while at the same time you ignore the delays in the Tejas project and the fact that NOT A SINGLE Mk. 1A is ready yet, is irrelevant to you?!

The same with the "vastly superior Meteor" against the "older PL-15", which is not even delivered nor integrated to the not even ready MKI-mod or Tejas Mk.1A.

Some of you are always and only comparing what the IAF WILL HAVE or wants to have on paper in a few years against, what the PAF is flying since years. Guys ... grow up and get mature.

Otherwise it's nothing but pathetic!

 

[Eagle_Nest]

the level of sucking up is uncanny. Not seen a single turk on the forum so passionate about JF-17 and Pakistani/Indian affairs, why don't you come out with your real flag?

Also the next time you post aircraft pictures, post something that Turkey is actually planning to develop itself, not by copy pasting nato tech. For this particular aircraft

Aircraft design - From BAE Systems
Airframe - From the same facility that produces F35 airframes.

Like honestly, without NATO tech, Turkey couldn't build a car let alone an aircraft. Also please post actual proof that Turkey shot down an S400, rather than some of your wet dream ramblings. S400 in Syria is only in the hands of Russian troops. Had you targeted them, they would have levelled Istanbul to the ground. Turkey like an insect compared to Russia, if it doesn't behave, it will be spanked back into place, that's why Erdogan behaves like a poodle when in front of Putin.

Hey kid! You are talking about turkey?? Lol... remember afghanistan!

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Hey kid! You are talking about turkey?? Lol... remember afghanistan!

Irony is they are buying Turkish refueller ships.

 

[Mrc]

It ij not inferior

Thish ij cheeni propoganda

We have spent 50 years making it. How can it b inferior?

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

The mighty HAL has a track record of a defunct company.

HAL has 5-6 times more turnover than PAC

The French refuse to guarantee and certify any rafale produced by HAL

PAC has no manufactured any western jet.
Atleast HAL has manufactured European Jaguars

tejas has been in development for 40+ years and has gone from point defense to multi role to a M2000 analogous and might become a "spaceship" in the near future.

Epic fail. Tejas is only 19 yrs old as first flight in 2001.

And lets not forget the fiasco where newly built MKIs were beind fitted with used engines ...

Not a fiasco as those 'used' engiens were only 2-3yrs old.

Just plain and simple:

- How many FOC Tejas are delivered and in service, and how many Block 1 & 2 JF-17 are in service since when?

First of all one can Clearly see you are avoiding my post no. 157 where I exposed reality of PAC in front of HAL.

Tejas was not a priority to project for HAL as IAF was focused on Su-30 and HAL had to finish 75% of Su-30 production before it could fpcus on Tejas.

Nonethless HAL has produced far more Su-30 than PAC has produced JF-17.

 

[halupridol]

Is this tactic to divert from a simple question or a lack of reading comprehension??

How many MKIs and LCAs were produced last year?? Plain and simple for these two types only. Everything else does not matter.



And just to set the facts right: You are complaining about the JF-17's lack of capability to fire AAMs and compare fictional numbers.

Just plain and simple:

- How many FOC Tejas are delivered and in service, and how many Block 1 & 2 JF-17 are in service since when?
- How many Tejas Mk. 1A are flying and how many Block 3 JF-17s?

I find it simply shameful that you guys constantly mock about the limitations of the Block 1 & 2 in comparison to the "vastly superior Tejas Mk. 1A" and the low numbers of Block 3 while at the same time you ignore the delays in the Tejas project and the fact that NOT A SINGLE Mk. 1A is ready yet, is irrelevant to you?!

The same with the "vastly superior Meteor" against the "older PL-15", which is not even delivered nor integrated to the not even ready MKI-mod or Tejas Mk.1A.

Some of you are always and only comparing what the IAF WILL HAVE or wants to have on paper in a few years against, what the PAF is flying since years. Guys ... grow up and get mature.

Otherwise it's nothing but pathetic!

I dont think they are unaware of condition of dpsu like HAL,,probably they got some relatives working thr,,thats why they r ashamed to accept it.or just jingos
I think this year HAL has delivered only one lca(ioc),,,,screwdrivering is tough.

 

[Lincoln]

JF-17 has no air combat history. Could not fire a single A2A missile on Feb 27, 2019 despite 6:1 numericla superiority.
Only 50 BLk 3 ordered whereas IAF has ordered 83 Tejas Mk1A.

-Meteor is far superior to PL-15. Pl-15 still uses older dual pulse prop whereas Meteor has far superior Ramjet.
PL-15 is only slightly superior to AIM-120D (35-40 km NEZ compared to 120Ds 35 km) wheread Meteor NEZ is 60-70 km.

No combat history? It's been used in CAP missions, bombing missions, and has also scored air to air kills on Iranian UAVs. That's real time combat.

JF-17 has seen many, many international exercises, against Rafales, F-16 and also Russian jets. How many such air exercises has Tejas seen? Big difference.

- Ramjet, or pulse prop; what's difference does it make if PL-15 still gets its purpose fully accomplished, and that's no less of the Meteor.
- Where are you getting the figures on for the PL-15 NEZ? We don't even know it's range which is speculated to be 300+ km. These values are very much classified. AIM-120D NEZ is speculated to be 55+ km.

And once again, no escape zone doesn't guarantee you a kill. It's just the maximum zone for in which the BVR is most effective. It varies with altitude, speed, heading and surrounding.

 

[Khanivore]

HAL is ranked in the 34 position among the top 100 global aerospace industries. As on date, HAL has produced or overhauled 1,416 aircraft (of 17 types) of indigenous design, 2,097 aircraft (of 14 type) under license and a total of 5,015 aero engines. The turnover of the company during 2017-2018.
While PAC not even in to 100

https://theprint.in/india/governanc...-arms-producers-hal-in-top-100-report/166052/

https://www.newsclick.in/hal-ranks-higher-frances-dassault-defence-market-presence

https://www.aeromag.in/aerospacesingle.php?aero=308

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are Indian sources/links.

 

[Lincoln]

HAL has 5-6 times more turnover than PAC

PAC has no manufactured any western jet.
Atleast HAL has manufactured European Jaguars

Epic fail. Tejas is only 19 yrs old as first flight in 2001.

Not a fiasco as those 'used' engiens were only 2-3yrs old.


First of all one can Clearly see you are avoiding my post no. 157 where I exposed reality of PAC in front of HAL.

Tejas was not a priority to project for HAL as IAF was focused on Su-30 and HAL had to finish 75% of Su-30 production before it could fpcus on Tejas.

Nonethless HAL has produced far more Su-30 than PAC has produced JF-17.

Epic fail? Where have I heard this cringe comment before from? Some retard who used to be named Tejas spokesman.

Personally, I don't care what any one is 'capable' of. It's about delivery and action. So far, PAC and PAF have been pushing well above their weight and it's good fruits are bein harvested.

Can't say the same for HAL and IAF, whose excuse landed on the lie that R-77 are very inferior and under ranged than the stated ranged.

We will see how much action Tejas sees. If IAF was truly that hopeful, they wouldn't have been looking for a tender of 100+ jets.

 

[Ultima Thule]

manufactured

Not manufactured but right word for ASSEMBLING

Epic fail. Tejas is only 19 yrs old as first flight in 2001.

LCA/ TEJ@$$ PROJECT WERE STARTED BACK IN 83 NOT IN 2000 SO WE COUNT FROM THERE NOT FROM 2000 HOW CAN IT BE POSSIBLE THAT A BACKWARD COUNTRY WITH A LITTLE EXPERIENCE TO DESIGN AND DEVELOP A FIGHTER JETS, JUST DESIGN AND DEVELOP FIGHTER JET IN 20 YEARS,EVEN USA/CHINA RUSSIA/EU HAVEN'T THAT CAPABILITY TO DESIGN/DEVELOP AND INDUCT FIGHTER JETS IN SUCH A SHORT TIME PERIOD

DO YOU (INDIA) HAVE BETTER AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES THAN THOSE COUNTRIES THAT I REFER ABOVE MY THIS POST, YOU HAVE NO LOGIC AND COMMONSENSE

 

[Blacklight]

@masterchief_mirza
Want me to expand further with pictures, diagrams, specifications etc? I have compiled before map of Indian air force bases, and circles showing range of different MLRS China offers that offer accuracy good enough that a barrage of 72 rockets from different vehicles would be lethal to most if not all air bases targeted.

Dear Philip and @masterchief_mirza

From what I gather, PA operates the A100 MLRS which has a publicly stated range of 100kms. Now the A100 uses a 300mm Rocket but so does the longer range A300 MLRS.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/a100.htm

PA has publicly acknowledged it posses the A100 MLRS, but what would stop it from using a longer range (publicly stated) 290km rocket, given that both are 300mm and interchangeable.

Keeping in mind that Pak Armed Forces have a reputation for springing surprises, on their enemies, It would be safe to assume that they have explored this simple line of thought, and aren't waiting for online analysts to suggest this to them.

Keep in mind that PA has plenty of experience in using artillery in all sorts of terrain, from the plains of Punjab, to the mountains of Kashmir.

 

[GumNaam]

Dear Philip and @masterchief_mirza

From what I gather, PA operates the A100 MLRS which has a publicly stated range of 100kms. Now the A100 uses a 300mm Rocket but so does the longer range A300 MLRS.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/a100.htm

PA has publicly acknowledged it posses the A100 MLRS, but what would stop it from using a longer range (publicly stated) 290km rocket, given that both are 300mm and interchangeable.

Keeping in mind that Pak Armed Forces have a reputation for springing surprises, on their enemies, It would be safe to assume that they have explored this simple line of thought, and aren't waiting for online analysts to suggest this to them.

Keep in mind that PA has plenty of experience in using artillery in all sorts of terrain, from the plains of Punjab, to the mountains of Kashmir.

dude, wrong thread. Also, just because they are A100 and A300 are both 300mm rockets doesn't mean that they can have the same range...the A300 rockets can be 300mm in diameter but be much longer thus carry more solid fuel...duh!

 

[Blacklight]

Sub kuch bata dia... ub baki kia reh gaya?

O, PakBrother mine, please, don't tell them that we have now IskanderM type too.... please, don't tell this to anyone!

You be good and take very good care of yourself!

dude, wrong thread. Also, just because they are A100 and A300 are both 300mm rockets doesn't mean that they can have the same range...the A300 rockets can be 300mm in diameter but be much longer thus carry more solid fuel...duh!

The lengths of the A100 and A300 are identical, payload is interchangeable.

PA A100

PLA A300